PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF WEST VIRGINIA CHARLESTON * * * * * * * * * v. * T-C * * * * * * * * * HEARING TRANSCRIPT * * * * * * * * *

Transcription

1 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF WEST VIRGINIA CHARLESTON * * * * * * * * * AD OJI * v. * T-C VERIZON WEST VIRGINIA, INC.,* * * * * * * * * * HEARING TRANSCRIPT * * * * * * * * * BEFORE: RONNIE MCCANN, Administrative Law Judge HEARING: Tuesday, May 0, 00 :0 a.m. LOCATION: PSC Howard M. Cunningham Hearing Room 01 Brooks Street Charleston WV Reporter: Autumn D. Furby Any reproduction of this transcript is prohibited without authorization by the certifying agency. (1) -0

2 A P P E A R A N C E S LISA L. WANSLEY, ESQUIRE Staff Attorney State of West Virginia Public Service Commission 01 Brooks Street Post Office Box 1 Charleston, WV Counsel for the PSC AD OJI, PRO SE 1 Dellway Drive Charleston, WV 1-1 Complainant MICHAEL I. SPIKER, ESQUIRE Goodwin & Goodwin, LLP Post Office Box Charleston, WV - Counsel for the Respondent ALSO PRESENT JOCELYN JOHNSON (1) -0

3 INDEX TO WITNESSES DISCUSSION AMONG PARTIES - WITNESS: Ad Oji EXAMINATION by Judge McCann - 1 CROSS EXAMINATION by Attorney Spiker 0 - WITNESS: Steve Wilson DIRECT EXAMINATION by Mr. Oji - 0 WITNESS: Kathy Buckley DIRECT EXAMINATION by Attorney Spiker - CROSS EXAMINATION by Mr. Oji - CROSS EXAMINATION by Attorney Wansley - RECROSS EXAMINATION by Mr. Oji - REDIRECT EXAMINATION by Attorney Spiker - 1 RECROSS EXAMINATION by Mr. Oji 1 - DISCUSSION AMONG PARTIES - CERTIFICATE (1) -0

4 E X H I B I T S Number Description Page Offered 1 C-1 Insurance license 1 C- //0 Letter to Verizon 1 C- Letter to Sandra Squire //0 1 C- Letter to Sandra Squire /1/0 1 C- Letter from FiberNet 1//0 1 C- Yellow page listing National Health 1 C- Yellow page listing TCA 1 R-1 Letter dated 1//0 from Buckley (1) -0

5 P R O C E E D I N G S This is Case Number T-C. Ad Oji --- is that how you pronounce it? MR. OJI: Oji (corrects pronunciation). Oji (confirms pronunciation). Okay. Ad Oji versus Verizon West Virginia, Inc. This is a formal complaint filed January, 00. Is the Complainant present today? MR. OJI: Yes. Are you represented by legal counsel? MR. OJI: No. Verizon? ATTORNEY SPIKER: Yes, Your Honor. My name is Mike Spiker. I'm an attorney at the law firm of Goodwin & Goodwin. I appear here on behalf of Verizon, the Respondent. And I have with me here today Ms. Kathy (1) -0

6 Buckley who's vice president of Public Policy at Verizon. Commission Staff? ATTORNEY WANSLEY: Yes, Your Honor. Lisa Wansley on behalf of the Commission staff. And as far as I can tell from the Commission's file, there's no agreement or resolution of this matter; is that correct? MR. OJI: That is, Your Honor. Do you want to give testimony on your behalf? MR. OJI: Sure. Whatever, you know ---. Do you want to come forward then? Have this chair up here. Any documents that you want me to look at, you might want to bring with you. Raise your right hand AD OJI, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: (1) -0

7 Be seated. And just give your name and address for the record? A. My name is Ad Oji. My address is 1 Dellway Drive, Charleston, 1. And you are the Complainant in this matter? A. I'm the Plaintiff, that is correct. And there was some question whether or not this was a personal or a business account. And on May 1th, I received a May 1th letter from you indicating that there is no legal entity called National Health and Life Company; is that correct? A. That is correct. And that this is a personal telephone complaint? A. That is correct. Okay. Just state in detail what you think is important that I need to know why you brought the complaint, if I should find in your favor, what (1) -0

8 relief the Commission should grant. And then the attorneys will be able to ask you questions after you complete your case. A. Your Honor, I requested informally from Verizon as a result of a court case in which I had used the invoices that was billed by Verizon, which I paid on the account number as they were listed in this case. The representation was made that it may not have been a land line. So I turned to go back to Verizon and requested verification in writing. Verizon dragged their feet. I made an informal complaint. The informal complaint with no result. Verizon continued to send games. Subsequently, I filed a formal complaint requesting that Verizon put it in writing. All I wanted was just to simply state that the account number as to those two numbers, which was area code and The two telephone numbers have the same account. Verizon assigned to me what was called Centrix. Under that Centrix plan, it has different numbers, you could get multiple numbers and it was listed in the Yellow Page by different names. One of the names was National Health and Life, which the Commission has copies of the Yellow Page listing. The other company was called TCA, which also the Commission has copies of Yellow Page listing. TCA did, indeed, pay for Yellow Page (1) -0

9 advertising. National Health did not Again, like I said, this was a Centrix plan that allow you to get multiple numbers and lines and listings. So at the time that I requested this, I thought perhaps Verizon didn't understand. I tried and I produced copies of the Yellow Page advertisement, which I supplied to the Commission. I also did fax copies, if my memory serves me right, to Verizon. Subsequent to that, in the filing, and they also supplied a sheet that has TCA and National Health listed. So why Verizon is dragging their feet and claiming that they didn't know what happened to the number. It makes no sense. The two telephone numbers have one unifying thing, one account number. The two telephone numbers were served by one account number and they were listed in the Yellow Pages. It was a landline. And that's all I asked Verizon to verify. So the mumbo and jumbo and legal vendetta, tortured argument they are making about whether it was a landline or whether it wasn t a landline, it makes absolutely no sense, because what they had verified is the account number that was attached to the invoices that was used as a business expense. I will stop there, Your Honor. And then if they have any questions that they want to address. (1) -0

10 Do you wish to cross at this time for Verizon? ATTORNEY SPIKER: Yes, Your Honor. Is that the end of this case? He said that he wanted to stop at this point and let you take questions and then he might add something after you ask questions. I don't think he's completed with his case, but he's stopping for questions. Is that correct? A. That is correct. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Well, Your Honor, I'd prefer to have him complete his case and then I think after we cross and present ours, he can come back on and go to the right processes. Because I'd like to hear his whole --- is that his case? Is there anything else that you think is important? A. I think there might be other issues, but I think they're extraneous. The essential thing is that the two telephone numbers, whether it was listed as National (1) -0

11 Health or TCA, both of them had the same account number. They were running concurrently. But Verizon was making an argument from 001 to 00, which has no relevance to this case. So the essential thing is that they need to verify in writing that the two account numbers or the telephone numbers were served by a landline. That's all I need. I'm still unclear. You say this is a personal telephone complaint, yet you're talking about these two businesses. Do you have any relationship, like do you conduct a business called National Health and Life? A. That is correct. National Health and Life is my business. And it's not a company? A. It's a company, but it's not a legal entity, a corporation in the sense of a corporation. That is my business, it's DBA, doing business as. Okay. And also doing business as TCA? A. That is correct. And you have some kind of business (1) -0

12 license to that effect? A. Sure, Your Honor. Your Honor, is understanding the business licensure. Do you have a copy that I can see? A. Sure. I'm trying to understand. This paper from the insurance commission apparently gives you personally a license to --- what, to sell insurance; is that ---? A. That is correct. It doesn't mention either of those doing business as ---? A. Because in West Virginia, you are required to license agents, not agencies. Agents are to be licensed, but I'm the agent of record. And that's why it was file under my name as Ad Oji. And you obtained two telephone numbers, one for each of these entities? A. That is correct. And you want to have one account number (1) -0

13 that covers both of these telephone numbers? A. I don't want to. I have one account number that covers both numbers. And you want to have two account numbers or --- I'm trying to understand what it is you want? A. What I want is for Verizon to put in writing that the telephone numbers assigned by the account number --- if you want to actually put it on the record, though the Commission should have it, the account number. Is that the account number listed in the complaint? A. In the complaint. Four zeros and then 0Y? A. That is correct. But that is served by a landline. This is a typical --- this is a copy of what was issued by FiberNet. At one time you were a customer of FiberNet? A That is correct. I left Verizon to go to FiberNet with the same circumstances, the same thing that (1) -0

14 I'm So now you're a customer of FiberNet? MR. OJI: No, I'm not even a customer of FiberNet. I started with another company. At the time you filed the complaint, who were you a customer of? A. Neither Verizon, neither FiberNet. Okay. You need something to substantiate past tax records; is that ---? A. I already have the invoices that they revealed on my initial complaint, a copy was attached. You have a copy of my initial complaint. If you don't, I'll provide you one. Yeah, I have the complaint. I have a billing date 1//01 from Verizon. Is that the document you're referring to? A. That is correct. That's attached to the complaint and then also a December th, ? (1) -0

15 A. That is correct. And on top of that you see the account number that s assigned both numbers. And, Your Honor, I will at this time request that the three documents that you've looked like be admitted into evidence? The insurance ---. Do you have copies of them? A. Yes, I sure do. Let me have one and have it marked by the reporter and you see to it that the two attorneys get copies. Make sure that the attorneys have copies of each of these documents. A. She gave me four copies, so ---. OFF RECORD DISCUSSION Let me identify the documents and then the attorneys can tell me if they have copies or not. First will be marked as Complainant's Number On, is a document from the West Virginia Insurance Commissioner. It says date range July 1th, 1 through May 1st, 00. That's Complainant Number One. (Complainant's Exhibit Number One marked for identification.) ATTORNEY SPIKER: (1) -0

16 I have a copy of that. Okay. The second document will be marked as Complainant Number Two is dated March th, 00 and this is a document that the Complainant prepared; is that correct? (Complainant's Exhibit Number Two marked for identification.) A. Yes, that is correct. That's what's attached to the original formal complaint. And that's a March th, 00 document that the Complainant prepared. And then another March th, 00 letter addressed to Sandra Squire from Mr. Oji, it will be marked as Complaint's Number Three. And then another letter dated May 1th, 00 from Mr. Oji that has some other documents attached to it that maybe some of them duplicative, be marked as Complainant's Number Four. Let's just go off the record a minute and let the Counsel look at these documents and see if you have copies of everything? (Complainant's Exhibits Numbers Three and Four marked for identification.) OFF RECORD DISCUSSION (1) -0

17 And while we were off the record, portions of one or more of the exhibits was removed and there was three other exhibits identified. And I'm just going to go through each one of them at this time. Complainant Exhibit Number One is the document from the West Virginia office of the Insurance Commissioner. Complainant Number Two is the letter that he prepared dated March th, 00 to whom it may concern. He apparently was trying to --- the Complainant was making a form or a suggestion for Verizon to respond to. Complainant Number Three is a March th, letter addressed to Sandra Squire, executive secretary that is titled Petitioner's Response to Defendant's Reply. Complainant Number Four is a May 1th, 00 letter. The one that I referred to earlier that indicates that there is no legal entity called National Health and Life Company. Complainant Number Five is a letter from FiberNet that the Complainant referred to earlier and it appears to have been sent by fax to the Complainant on December, 00. Complainant Number Six is an excerpt from Yellow Page book that marks or identifies telephone number -00 for National Health and Life Company. And Complainant Number Seven is another Yellow Page excerpt that identifies telephone (1) -0

18 number -00 as the telephone number for TCA. Now, does that correctly identify each of your exhibits? (Complainant's Exhibits Numbers Five, Six and Seven marked for identification.) A. Yes, sir. Is there any objection to any of these exhibits? ATTORNEY SPIKER: Your Honor, as to Exhibit One, I just want to make sure it's clear that this is just a copy of the Insurance Commission license. It is not a business license to do business in the State of West Virginia or any city. So this is an Insurance Commission license. Yeah, and that document basically speaks for itself to that extent. ATTORNEY SPIKER: It speaks for itself, yes. It is not ---. ATTORNEY SPIKER: I just want to clarify ---. (1) -0

19 Anyone who is doing business --- an individual doing business in West Virginia would receive a document, I believe from the State Tax Department, that would give that person a tax identification number. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Yeah, with that said, I have no objection. Then Complainant Exhibit Numbers One through Seven are received. Do you wish to cross examine at this time? I have no more questions. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Is that it? A. Essentially because you have just about all the exhibits, though I still reserve the right to add additional exhibits. ATTORNEY SPIKER: That's fine. Your Honor, at the end of his case, I just want to make sure that we have a motion to again review our motion to dismiss the case. I don't know if the Commission has a standing to force Verizon to provide written documentation to what a person who has admitted he's no longer our customer, either business or consumer. But nevertheless we want to proceed to conclude this matter today if we can. (1) -0

20 CROSS EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. First let me get straight your name. Your business --- the license that you filed, is that your full legal name just to confirm, first, middle, last, Ad Dickson Oji? A. Yes. Q. Have you also gone under the names of Ad Oji, A-D O-J-I, just like you filed this complaint without your middle name? Is that how you file some of your papers? A. That is correct. Q. And you also have gone under the name of Aya Dickson, A-Y-A D-I-C-K-S-O-N. A. That has no relevance to this. Q. I asked you a question, sir. A. It has no relevance in this case, but if you want an answer to that, yes. Verizon had my name misspelled in some of the documents. That is correct. Q. So you go under another name and ---? I believe his interpretation was it was misspelled; is that correct? A. Yeah, I've had several complaints against this company, Your Honor. Going back trying to find, through (1) -0

21 time, whatever they have on their records. Okay. Go on. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. You actually filed a complaint against this company one other time, did you not? A. I filed at least two or three complaints Q. And you filed those under a different name than you filed this complaint, you used the name Dickson? A. Which is what they had on the document at the time. Q. That's not your legal name, that's your middle name isn't it? So my understanding ---? A. That was a residential listing and that has absolutely nothing to do with the business list. Q. Well, it helps me understand because now I'm trying to figure out --- and if you also had gone by the name A-Y-O Dickson or was that the misspelling also we have? A. That is my name also. Q. Your name is also A-Y-O Vickson? A. A-D, that A-D is --- is A-Y-O. So if you ---. Q. Okay. Now, with respect to your businesses ---? A. But if you're interested in the legal name, it's (1) -0

22 Ad Dickson Oji. You have it there on the copy of the insurance license issued by the State of West Virginia. Q. You agree with --- I think that you testified that you're no longer a customer of Verizon; is that correct, the person you filed ---- the corporation you filed the complaint against? A. I'm still a customer of Verizon, but in that respect, with respect to this number and the two accounts. Yes, I still have some business with Verizon. Q. But you're not a business customer of Verizon; am I correct, with respect to these two numbers? A. That is correct. Q. Now, let me go to the next thing. You indicated that you're inquiring about two numbers under two different names. I got to get my entities straight. A. It should be Exhibit Six and Seven. Q. TCA; is that one of them? A. That is correct. Q. And is TCA --- TCA is it fair to say is not a partnership or a corporation? A. That is correct. Q. It's a trade name, doing business ---? A. That is correct. Q. And is that the same with the other company, National Health and Life Company? (1) -0

23 A. That is correct. Q. Are you aware that under West Virginia law, you're supposed to register with the Secretary of State trade names and doing business names when you do names under a DBA? A. They have been registered. You're going back to 001 and 00. Q. Well, let me ask you, have you registered with the Secretary of State either of those two entities under doing business as or trade name? A. No, you're not required to register with the Secretary of State as doing business. You're supposed to register with the tax commission. You're registering with the Secretary of State you register as a corporation. If you're looking for a federal ID number, tax number. So I think that's what you're getting the two mixed up. Q. So with respect to National Health and Life Company, you've used that name, but it's not a corporation a company? A. National Health is not a corporation. I don't file a tax under National Health, I file as Ad Oji. Q. You file in your individual name? A. That is correct. So if you want to file tax with those names, then you're required to get a federal (1) -0

24 ID number, which is what you're talking. Then you have to get a license Q. Okay. Well, let's go to the next thing. On the Yellow Pages you filed and I don't know what year those were, if you would look at those two exhibits, is it fair to say that under those two exhibits, you used two different addresses for both of those two entities? In one Yellow Page listing you have one address and another Yellow Page listing, you have another address? A. Okay. Q. Is that correct? A. That is correct. That's what is listed. Q. And they use the same phone number? A. That is correct. Q. Now, with respect to the document ---? A. And your point would be what? Q. I don't have to have a point. My point is that you're using different addresses, different names and I'm just trying to figure out why we're even here truthfully, but I'm going to get to that. A. Okay. Q. I'm going to hand you --- you still have Exhibit Two? A. Exhibit Two is a draft, but I'm familiar with the document you're referring to. I don't have it, but (1) -0

25 yeah, go ahead. Q. And are you familiar with the complaint you filed? A. Am I familiar with the complaint that I filed? Q. Yes, the original complaint? A. Yes Q. I'm going to read this complaint to you and see if this is what we started off with. Quote, I requested that Verizon verify in writing that the business lines 0--00/0--00, account number 00000Y see attached bill. I do not have an attached bill with my exhibit. A. If you need one --- what's your name, sir? Q. No, that's okay. A. What is your name, sir? Mike? Mike, if you need one it was filed with the Commission. Q. In any event, landline bill listed in the Yellow Pages under National Health and Life Company? That is what you requested; isn't that correct? A. That is correct. Q. Now, there is additional line there. You filed this in '0, January the th of '0 and at that time you weren't a customer of Verizon; is that correct? A. That is correct with respect to that number. Q. In this complaint, did you specify the times and (1) -0

26 date when you were a customer of Verizon using the two phone numbers that you have listed? A. I'm not sure if you have a business line, if you ever had one, it's irrelevant. Q. Sir, I'm ---. A. I'm answering your question if you allow me to answer your question. But I need to ---. Let's go off the record now. OFF RECORD DISCUSSION Do you need him to ask the question again? A. No, I need to finish my answer. Okay. Finish your answer and then we'll go forward. A. The two telephone numbers I stated in my testimony is a Centrix line. Centrix means that you could have multiple lines with Verizon, you could have multiple numbers, telephone numbers. Whether Verizon still does Centrix or not, I don t know. The two numbers that you're talking about, the two addresses, as you well know, the number has to ring in wherever it is, you also have the ability to forward. So my draft letter, which (1) -0

27 is my Exhibit Two, it clearly identifies the account number, which is the controlling number irrespective of what telephone number was put in there. The controlling number is the account number which is what I paid Verizon all the bills from --- if I'm going too slow --- I mean, too fast let me know. So that is the controlling number. It's irrespective whether one was listed at Dellway and the other one was listed in South Charleston or whether you have two different telephone numbers. They were all invoiced and billed and paid with one account number. So I hope that helps you. Q. Let me get back to the question though. Using that account number to try to keep it, to what you ve answered, do you recall the time periods during which you used Verizon as your service provider, the time periods? A. No. Q. Do you agree with me that you did not use Verizon as your service provider in the year 00, for example, because you terminated it sometime before that just as an example? A. Sure. We can agree on that. Q. Okay. So with respect to the answer to the complaint when Verizon --- strike that. You submitted a letter, Exhibit Two, that didn't (1) -0

28 limit the time period which Verizon could verify these phone numbers; isn't that true? A. There was a guide just to Verizon. That was a guide to Verizon. Verizon is absolutely capable of they could have fricken called me back and said we're not uncomfortable with this line or that line. I've also attached the exhibit marked as Five, a letter from FiberNet. FiberNet was in the same situation. So at the time that I requested for verification, I was no longer a customer of FiberNet. So you are capable of having --- you should have been able to either modify, exclude, limit, whatever you want to. So that was just a guide of what I was looking for. Q. Did you receive a document filed by Verizon that had attached as Exhibit Two, a letter dated January the rd of 00, which was a proposed letter like this? A. I don't have a copy. I apologize. I don't have a copy. ATTORNEY SPIKER: If I can approach the witness, Your Honor? Yes. Is that Exhibit Two to the Answer? ATTORNEY SPIKER: (1) -0

29 I think it is. Or the motion to dismiss? ATTORNEY SPIKER: That's correct, Your Honor. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. That was filed January the th. Have you seen that document, sir? A. It's possible that I've seen it, but I have no independent recollection. Q. Would you read the document? A. I don't think that's necessary at this time. Q. Well, what I was asking is there anything in that document that's not accurate that wouldn't address the question you've raised here today? A. Well, the issue from February 000 to 001, I don't have an independent way of verifying that. And then from February --- from January, 1 to February, 000, I have no way of verifying that. Again, I go back to my question. The account had a number, the two accounts, irrespective of this, what you have --- I've given you an exhibit that was --- a letter was drafted by FiberNet. It's clean, it goes to the point. These two account numbers, what you're doing is tortured language, it makes no sense. (1) -0

30 Q. I'll let the Judge decide that. A. The two account numbers, the two telephone numbers, -00 and -00 were served, if I'm going too fast, let me know, were served by the same account number. So for one, I don t trust Verizon. Two, these dates have no relevance to the case. Three, it just wasn't listed in the Yellow Pages. Look at my exhibit, the exhibit marked as Exhibit Seven, that was a Yellow Page advertisement. It just wasn t listed. So this letter does not accurately reflect --- if you look at the exhibits, Your Honor, Exhibit Seven and Six, Exhibit Seven is actually a Yellow Page advertisement. So this letter does not accurately reflect what happened. Q. You said you don't trust Verizon, but how is Verizon to send you a letter if you're not going to accept the letter that verifies the information that they have found. A. Well, because my history with Verizon is to where --- I've had several complaints. I've not had any complaint against FiberNet. I haven't had a complaint against Suddenlink. I could go on that ---. Q. That's not my question, sir. My question is you wanted us to give you a letter, but you say you don't trust the letter which I just gave you, which as our witness will testify this is an accurate recollection of (1) -0

31 their business records of that account number and the two phone numbers and how it was listed. And that's what they offered several months ago to address this issue to provide you the information. And the reason is it's limited to the dates that they provided service. A. The date is not relevant. Q. Well, let me ask you this question, how could Verizon provide a statement for dates when they did provide a service? A. You were not asked to provide testimony, you were asked to verify an account number. Again, you're still missing the point. Q. I'm getting the point. Isn't it true that this all has to do with you filing a complaint with the United States Tax Department about tax refunds? A. No. Q. And business deductions? A. It has nothing to do about tax refunds. Q. Well, what's the case that you addressed earlier that you needed the documents for? A. It's irrelevant for this purpose. The purpose is for you guys to produce a verification. I have paid Verizon all of the bills that you have submitted to me. I paid it. FiberNet has also sent a letter marked as Exhibit Two without all this nonsense that you're (1) -0

32 including Q. Well, sir, you testified earlier that you needed this information for a court case. What kind of court case was that? A. Again, I stated not relevant, because at the time I filed my complaint I requested for interim related --- that was not directed. So we're not going to go into that. It has no relevance to the case at hand. Q. Well, what's the urgency of furnishing the information other than you just want a letter from Verizon then? A. What's the urgency? The urgency is that I paid you for every bill that you submitted to me to be paid, it was paid. So on that, you're required to --- the very least that you could do, even if the law of West Virginia doesn t, the FCC laws controls that. You could verify in writing this guy was a customer, he had an account number ---. Well, Mr. Oji, this letter that's attached to the Answer or motion to dismiss is a letter from Verizon that verifies the dates that it provided service. What dates do you contend should have been in that letter? A. I believe that those dates are wrong, but I (1) -0

33 don't have the evidence to provide that. That is the reason why I don't want to get tied up in dates, because my case is not about dates. My case is about account number. Account number is what ---. Well, then is the account number that s in the letter that was offered; is it incorrect? A. Do you want to give me a copy of the letter that you're talking about? ATTORNEY SPIKER: The account number's in it, Your Honor. I'm approaching the witness, Your Honor, and handing him back a copy of the document. A. What was your question? I'm sorry. Is the account number listed? A. The account number is listed on the statement. Then why does this not satisfy what you're asking? A. It doesn't satisfy because it doesn't state that the second number was listed in Yellow Pages. Judge, if you go back to my ---. The last sentence of the first (1) -0

34 paragraph says this number was listed in the Yellow Pages and associated with the business TCA; is that not correct? A. It is correct, but listed different. When you list --- as a customer when you purchase a business line, it is automatically listed. When you pay extra money, which is why I included Exhibit Seven. That was a paid Yellow Page advertisement. Are you saying the Yellow Page advertisement was wrong? A. No, it wasn't wrong. The Yellow Page advertisement was paid, it was a paid advertisement. In their contention, they were claiming that the Yellow Page was no longer published by Verizon. It was published by some other company, which is false. At the time that I paid for the Yellow Page listing it was Verizon. So if you go back to Exhibit Six and Seven, you will see the difference. Six is not a paid listing, it just comes customarily with the telephone number. You expected a larger listing as opposed to just the name and address and phone number in the Yellow Pages? You thought you were paying for a larger advertisement? (1) -0

35 A. I received what I paid for on that Exhibit Seven. And I apologize it's not in color, so you might not be able to see the box on that Exhibit Seven. If you look at Exhibit Seven and Six there's a big difference. Let me look at this. A. I should have made a copy of it in color so that you could get the full ---. Exhibit Number Six, Complainant Exhibit Number Six lists National Health and Life Company, Second Avenue, South Charleston? A. That is correct. Telephone number is -00; that's correct? A. That is correct. Now, Number Seven lists TCA, and one half of Corporal Avenue, Southwest, South Charleston. Then it lists the same phone number, -00; is that incorrect? A. That is correct. The question is what are missing? Is that what you're asking? (1) -0

36 Is the telephone number correct or incorrect? A. The telephone number is correct. Okay. And the statement dated January rd, 00 that Verizon offered does it list the incorrect telephone number then for one of these accounts? A. No, it lists the correct phone number, Your Honor, but it needs to go a step farther. And what step further is that? A. That step further is to acknowledge that a Yellow Page advertisement was bought and paid. That is the crux of this case. Well, there's two paragraphs in that letter. The first one ends with this number was listed in the Yellow Pages and associated with the business TCA. And the second paragraph ends with this number was listed in the Yellow Pages and associated with the business National Health and Life Company. You just want it to further state that you paid for that? Is that the only thing that's lacking? A. Well, yes, that is the only thing that is (1) -0

37 lacking and then, of course, the date is irrelevant. I don't really care about the dates. They want to leave the dates, it's irrelevant to me. I don't really care about the date. Is the fact that he paid for it to be included in the letter or is that something Verizon can do or cannot do? A. This case would have been settled, Your Honor, a long time ago. That's why I supplied that second exhibit to them. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Your Honor, if we could take a recess, I would answer that question. Yes. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Let me clarify something. The complaint did not --- the complaint or any of the documents he's filed never brought up the issue that he's talking about now, to my knowledge. A. I did. ATTORNEY SPIKER: I think the pleadings will speak for themselves on that. But having said that, what I'd like (1) -0

38 to do is take the inquiry of the Court and see if we can take a break and maybe take this letter and address the Yellow Page things. I can say before we take a break, I want it on the record, our witness will testify depending upon the date and depending on the time if there's two companies during the same time period that has the same number, you get one Yellow Page listing for free. The second one would be a similar type as Exhibit Seven at the cost of cents a month. Something we were not talking --- it would be just to have an extra listing for the same number if you follow me, Your Honor? That's what we would be addressing to have. But if we'll take a break and I'll see what we can come up with Staff's help. A. Your Honor, let me just interject there because I don't know on what point in time Mr. Mike came in. The second advertisement, Yellow Page advertisement for TCA, that box, if you're familiar with a listing, when you pay for a box ad, you're paying for that to get attention, so it's a little higher. I cannot sit here and tell you, as in lawyer would --- if you go to the lawyers, sometime they have a full page, it costs more. Half a page costs more, a quarter of a page costs less. So the bigger your page listed on the Yellow Page, the more money it costs. That's truly the crux of this issue. The second listing I paid for the box and that's all Verizon has to (1) -0

39 acknowledge So you paid more than --- for the second listing, you paid for a box ad instead of the line ad, as you've referred to it? A. That is correct, Your Honor. How much do you think you paid? A. I don't have an independent recollection. You know, that's why I was deferring to Verizon. And I'm trying to stay away from the date because it's not really the amount that's at issue. I have all the invoices that Verizon has billed me. That's what was used, so when I paid how much --- as Mike just said, what happens is sometimes some of this is attached onto your bills as you well know. You pay it as you go along, sometimes you don't pay it all at one time. So you believe that you didn t get what you paid for? A. No, I know what I paid for, but I didn't get the acknowledgment in that, Defendant's Exhibit Two, which is why the issue is still outstanding, it's not resolved. So I got what I paid for at the time that I paid for it, but they did not acknowledge it in the letter that was (1) -0

40 marked as Defendant's Exhibit Two. Do you think that we can benefit from going off the record and drafting another letter? BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. Do you have those invoices here today for Verizon to look at to see what we're talking about? A. No, sir, I don't. Again, that's why I said I don't want to get into the dates because I didn't have the invoices. That s all boxed up. We're talking about what, six, seven, eight years. So whatever you guys are comfortable, it's just that the TCA advertisement was paid for. It's a bigger ad, it's a boxed ad and I apologize, I should have brought that in color. Your Honor, is there anyway we could get a copy --- the copy that I filed with the Commission should be in color and I know probably tended to scan it. That might give you the benefit of ---. I see nothing, and I have the Commission's case file, and I don't see any Yellow Pages in color. A. Okay. I apologize. But I think Verizon ---. I mean, it's highlighted in yellow, but (1) -0

41 it's not an actual --- it's just a copy. ATTORNEY SPIKER: 1 Can we take a break to see if we can do this? However you think we can reach a conclusion. If you think you can reach a conclusion by ---. ATTORNEY SPIKER: I would move we can take a short recess to see if I can talk to Staff and see if we can accomplish something. Let's go off the record. We'll be recessed for about five or ten minutes. SHORT BREAK TAKEN Do you have further questions of this witness or ---? BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. I just wanted to confirm, if the witness recalls, that with respect to the phone number -00, do you believe the dates of service that you used Verizon for that particular number was February the th of 000 through August the nd of '01? Does that sound (1) -0

42 1 1 approximately correct? A. No, that's not right. And just to clarify, I believe you intended -00? ATTORNEY SPIKER: Yes, sir. You stated. ATTORNEY SPIKER: I'm sorry.. I apologize. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. Now, with respect to phone number -00, do you believe and is it fair to say that you were a Verizon customer paying for that particular phone line from January of ' through approximately February the th of 000, during that time period? A. No, that is incorrect. Q. Now, if the Verizon witness testified that that's the correct time period, do you have anything to dispute to that? Besides your word, just do you have any documents? A. We could have one faxed if we have to. We could (1) -0

43 have bills that extending during that time period showing that. I think what they're missing, Judge, is that that was a Centrix line. So the Centrix line actually covers more periods than their dates. The date they're going by is the date showing ---. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. I'm going to interrupt you, sir. Are those the days that we provided service to you; is that correct? A. Verizon provided service past those dates. Q. Do you have an invoice that says Verizon provided service to you for these two numbers under the account number you described in the complaint beyond the dates I just mentioned? A. I believe we do. Q. And you can furnish those to the Court? A. Sure. I'll be glad to ---. But you would have to do it after the hearing? A. Sure. If that s what ---. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Can we have a short period of time, and if he files, it fine. And if not, ---. Okay. I'll require you to file that (1) -0

44 documentation within a week of today. A. Give me the dates that you are interested in Today is the 0th of May, so file it by May th. Today is the 0th; is that correct? Okay. I don't have a calendar in front of me. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. Mr. Oji, is my understanding that the court case you testified to earlier that you wanted this information for was a case before the Internal Revenue Service for deductions for the use of these numbers; is that correct? A. That has no material bearing ---. Q. Well, you testified about a court case that you needed the information for ---? A. That all you needed to know, it's a court case. It's not relevant. That's why I requested a letter just saying to whom it may concern. Q. Well, let's ask, is that court case still pending? A. Again, for the purposes of this case, it's not relevant. Q. But that's the purpose that you want the information, so what is the reason you need the information since you raised the issue in your Direct and in your filing. Is that court case still pending? (1) -0

45 A. Again, for purposes of this hearing, it has no bearing. Q. That s where the A. Because I requested explicitly the Commission to issue an interim relief, so that has absolutely no bearing. If you are interested in that, you should have a motion with the court. So that has absolutely no bearing with this case today. So stick with the case. Mr. Oji, if Verizon is to honor your request, I believe it needs to know what it is it's honoring, what it is providing you. Now, there would be many different ways that Verizon might respond to your request depending upon what it is that you're seeking. And if you don't disclose to Verizon what it is you're seeking Verizon may never be able to provide you with what you want. I don't understand the secrecy. The Public Service Commission requires utilities to provide information openly for all parties. Anyone who seeks information or relief from the Commission likewise is required to divulge anything short of a trade secret. If Verizon cannot understand the nature of your request, Verizon may not be able to provide you with what it is you're seeking. You may be preventing yourself from obtaining the information you wanted. (1) -0

46 A. Your Honor, I've gone on record with the Commission, both informal and formal, the nature, the extent and how --- the time that I need it in. The Staff is also aware of that. The reason why I requested for interim relief. But that has no bearing. If Verizon has any human compassion at the time that that request was made, according to my filing, FiberNet responded in minutes,. I've shown Exhibit --- my Exhibit Five, a letter from FiberNet. There's absolutely no reason why Verizon should be dragging their feet on this case and bringing in a high paid lawyer now to ask whether the case is pending or not pending. It's irrelevant. What he's getting into, Your Honor, is a damage phase. And that's not an issue that is before this Commission. The damaged phase in this case will go to the Court, the Court will have to handle that. Any other questions? ATTORNEY SPIKER: Yes, Your Honor. He referenced the FiberNet letter, that's Exhibit Five, and the document will speak for itself. I would ask the Court to take notice of Complainant Exhibit Five and Exhibit Two that was filed as part of the pleadings. I believe that letter is a lot more elaborate than the FiberNet letter. (1) -0

47 It goes into a lot greater detail. The one distinguishing characteristic is that we limited the dates that we could verify because we provided service. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. Now, let me ask you with respect to Exhibit Six and Seven, do you have those two with you, sir? I just want to clarify something. A. Sure. Q. Exhibit Six and Seven are copies of Yellow Page listings that you furnished the Court; is that correct? A. That is correct. Q. Now, with respect to Exhibit Six, the listing in the Yellow Pages is under National Health and Life Company; is that correct? A. That is correct. Q. And it uses an address of Second Avenue, South Charleston; is that correct? A. That is correct. Q. Now, if you'll look up in the upper left-hand corner, it has the date Bell Atlantic 1; is that correct? A. On which exhibit? Q. Exhibit Six? I'm sorry. A. I don't see 1 on my exhibit. I see. Q. The upper left hand corner? (1) -0

48 A. I see it now. Q. Okay. Can we assume for purpose of clarification this is a document you took out of the 1 Yellow Pages listing? A. If it says that, I cannot --- I couldn't tell you when I took it. Q. Now, let's look at Exhibit Seven, which has --- do you have a copy of that? A. Yes. Q. And the upper left-hand corner of that document has Bell Atlantic 1; is that correct? A. That is correct. Q. So with respect to Exhibit Six and Seven, there's no indication that these two documents came out of the same telephone book for the same year; isn't that true? A. That's possible that's correct. Q. Now, let's look at Exhibit Seven. Under that listing it has TCA and it has a different address; am I correct there? A. That is correct. Q. And a different ---? A. Different address from Exhibit Six. Q. Now, finally separate from the Yellow Pages, you also had a white pages listing for certain years; did you (1) -0

49 not, under the ---? When you had Verizon as your telephone provider, did you have a listing in the white pages during that same time period? A. I suppose so, but I have no independent recollection. I assumed when you --- so that would be a correct statement. That is correct. Q. Now, in your complaint, back to your complaint. Your original complaint, wanted a confirmation from Verizon that the landline under this account listed --- the two phone numbers was listed in the Yellow Pages under National Health and Life; isn't that correct? A. Say that again. Q. Well, in your complaint you limited --- you've asked that Verizon verify that two phone numbers under one account number was a landline listed in the Yellow Pages under National Health and Life Company? A. What are you reading from? I'm sorry. My complaint? Q. Your complaint, sir. You did remember what the complaint said? I want you to look at that. A. I don't that is necessary, Mr. Mike. My complaint was offered and admitted as evidence. Your Honor, that is ---. Q. I just asked you if that's what your complaint said? (1) -0

50 1 A. It's been admitted into evidence in order to properly address it. Your Honor, this is a copy of my complaint. Well, I have the complaint in the Commission's file. A. Will that be please admitted into evidence? The complaint will be considered in my decision, but it will not be marked as a separate exhibit. The complaint, as it was filed with the Commission, I will rely upon the actual original complaint that is contained in the Commission's case file that is signed in blue ink. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Your Honor, I'd like to tender to the Court as our Exhibit Number One, what has been attached as Exhibit Two for our motion to dismiss that I used with this witness because I want to just clarify some testimony. (Respondent's Exhibit Number One marked for identification.) Is that the January rd, letter --- ATTORNEY SPIKER: (1) -0

51 Yes, Your Honor. --- that you referred to earlier? It will be so marked. BY ATTORNEY SPIKER: Q. Sir, and finally I want to just show you now what's been marked as Respondent's Exhibit Number One and ask you if you've seen that document? A. Yes. Q. And is that a copy of the document that was filed with Verizon's motion to dismiss and answer as part of the pleas in this case, to the best of your knowledge? A. I don't know. Q. You don't remember what Verizon filed? A. If you want to give me what you filed, I'll be more than glad to --- but have I seen this? Yes. Q. All right. You don't recall today whether that was filed as part of the Court filing or not? A. That is correct. Q. During your testimony was that document handed to you by me to review with respect to the information contained in it? A. Yes, I did review it. I made the objections. You guys are not willing to accommodate the objections. And for the record the Court also took a recess to see if (1) -0

52 we could find out my contention that a box ad was also paid for. Q. Now, with respect to that document does that document state for Yellow Pages directories dated April the 1st, --- April 001 through 00 that number was listed in the Yellow Pages and associated with the business TCA? Does that document reference an account number or phone number and information regarding the phone number? Here, I'll hand it back to you. A. That's fine, I've got it. What was the question? I'm sorry. Q. Well, does the document reference the phone number and the account number referenced in your complaint and reference the Yellow Pages directory and what was contained in the Yellow Pages directory for a designated period of time? A. It references the account number, it references the dates that we cannot --- Verizon cannot substantiate and I cannot corroborate. It also mentions the directory, but it doesn't state --- it doesn t state the relief requested that the Yellow Page advertisement was bought and paid. Q. And then the second paragraph of that document references similar information in the Yellow Pages for the business National Health Life Company; is that (1) -0

53 correct? I just want to make sure that you've seen the document I'm going to file as Exhibit One? A. Sure, I've seen the document. The document is also unsigned. The document also doesn't contain the letterhead of the company, so it's hard to say when this exhibited letter is ---. ATTORNEY SPIKER: That wasn't the question. But in any event, I'm going to introduce into evidence or move to introduce into evidence this Exhibit One for the record. I have examined the document, there's a copy of it attached to the answer and/or the motion to dismiss in the Commission's file. Do you have any objection to that document being received? A. No, I don't. It's received. A. I just need the record to state that letter does not adequately respond to my request. And I think you've stated that before. Further questions? ATTORNEY SPIKER: No, Your Honor. (1) -0

54 Is there anything else you want to add or do you have another witness? Staff has the opportunity. ATTORNEY WANSLEY: I have no questions. Is there anything else you want to add or do you have another witness to call? MR. OJI: Will the Staff be called as witness by them or do they ---? It will be up to them who they call as witnesses. MR. OJI: It's my intention to call them as witnesses. The Staff intend to call ---? MR. OJI: The Staff and Verizon. ATTORNEY SPIKER: Are you --- I'm sorry. (1) -0