STATEMENT OF RANDAL L. MCCLOY, JR. Taken pursuant to Notice by Miranda. Notary Public in and for the State of. Morgantown, West Virginia, on Monday,

Transcription

1 STATEMENT OF RANDAL L. MCCLOY, JR. Taken pursuant to Notice by Miranda D. Elkins, a Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of West Virginia, at the Waterfront Place Hotel, Waterfront Place, Morgantown, West Virginia, on Monday, June 1, 0, at :0 a.m. Any reproduction of this transcript is prohibited without authorization by the certifying agency. (1) -0

2 A P P E A R A N C E S STEPHEN P. GOODWIN, ESQUIRE Goodwin & Goodwin, LLP 00 Summers Street Suite 100 Charleston, WV 01 EDWARD P. CLAIR, ESQUIRE Associate Solicitor for Mine Safety and Health U.S. Department of Labor Suite 0 10 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, VA J. DAVITT MCATEER, ESQUIRE Wheeling Jesuit University Vice President Sponsored Programs 1 Washington Avenue Wheeling, WV 0 (1) -0

3 A P P E A R A N C E S (cont.) RAY MCKINNEY Administrator for Coal Mine Safety and Health U.S. Department of Labor 10 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, VA ALSO PRESENT: ANNA MCCLOY (1) -0

4 I N D E X INTRODUCTION WITNESS: RANDAL MCCLOY QUESTIONING of Mr. McCloy - CONCLUSION - CERTIFICATE (1) -0

5 EXHIBIT PAGE PAGE NUMBER DESCRIPTION IDENTIFIED 1 Map of mine (1) -0

6 P R O C E E D I N G S ATTORNEY GOODWIN: My name is Steve Goodwin, and I represent Mr. McCloy. We're here today to meet with the MSHA people. We're happy that we're finally able to have this meeting. Randy has wanted to do this for a long time. we're here. We're glad I just want to say briefly that I know you gentlemen know and I want everyone to know that he's still undergoing extensive physical and mental 1 rehabilitation. His injuries are still affecting him. He's doing wonderful, as you can tell. He's improved dramatically. And he continues to get better every day. And we're all pleased (1) -0

7 with his progress, and I know Randy is. Randy, the only problem he may have is he wants it to go a little bit faster. But he's here today to attempt to answer your questions. I would point out, I know you all have copies of his statement. And I would ask that, at some point, we make that part of the record. That's also the statement that was given to the families. And it was also provided to you all or should have been. I think you will find that that's a good guide for you, hopefully. And I'm not 1 sure there's a whole lot more --- there may be some specifics you certainly want to ask about, but generally that covers the story. So with that being said, we're happy to be here (1) -0

8 and we're happy to have you all talk with Randy. ATTORNEY MCATEER: I'd just mention one thing, that I'm here on behalf of the State of West Virginia, the Office of Miners Health, Safety & Training and the Governor's Office. MR. MCKINNEY: I'm Ray McKinney, and I'm representing the Mine Safety & Health Administration as administrator. ATTORNEY CLAIR: And I'm Ed Clair, Associate Solicitor for Mine Safety & Health, also representing MSHA. ATTORNEY MCATEER: Randy, we'd like to just ask you, in your own words, to tell us the best you can what happened on the morning of the explosion or if (1) -0

9 1 there's any other things you want to talk about. Obviously, what we're trying to do is we're trying to learn lessons so we can prevent this from happening at other times. That's the whole point of what we're up to. MR. MCKINNEY: We do appreciate you coming in, Randy, I think this is going to be very helpful to us. And it's informal. Take 1 your time. And if you need to 1 rest or take a break, we're 1 more than happy to. Just let 1 us know what you want to do. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Randy, why don't you start with that morning. think you told me that you remember leaving home that day; correct? A. Uh-huh (yes). ATTORNEY GOODWIN: I (1) -0

10 And tell them what you remember about that, and then what's the next thing you remember after that. Okay? A. I don't even remember if I actually worked up to that time, before it happened. I'm not clear on if I even worked, you know, the day before it happened. I know I had been doing something, but I don't remember what. Q. How did you get to work? A. A car. Q. Was it raining? A. Was it what? Q. Raining? A. No, I don't think. Q. And you got to work and you changed clothes? A. Yeah. Q. Did you go in with the first trip? A. The first or second, I don't remember which. (1) -0

11 Q. Because it's a normal crew that you worked with, Randy, that day? A. Yeah. Q. Do you remember riding in at all or? A. That day? Q. Uh-huh (yes). A. Not really. It's just like another day. Q. Sure. Can you tell us when you got in what happened? A. Well, I'm not clear on the times, but ---. Q. Don't worry about the times. A. Well, there was definitely 1 some smoke and stuff. It was real hazy down there. explosion. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: That was due to the Q. Randy, you had gotten off the mantrip. Had you gotten off the mantrip and started to go up to the (1) -0

12 face when the explosion happened or were you still in the mantrip? A. At that time --- would you ask that question again? Q. Sure. When you first noticed the smoke and felt the effects of the explosion, were you in the mantrip or had you gotten out of the mantrip and walked up towards the face to start work? A. I believe I was out. Q. You were out and had gotten up towards the face? A. Right. Q. Tell me, if you would, about the smoke. Do you remember about the 1 smoke, what kind it was, what color it was? A. I don't know. Well, see, after the wind had burst through and all the stoppings had blown out, I guess that's what the smoke --- and I assume ---. (1) -0

13 Q. Do you remember the initial effects of the explosion, Randy, as far as the pressure, feeling it? A. Yeah. Q. At that point in time, was there any smoke where you were? A. Actually, a lot. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. So you felt the concussion and then the smoke came, or all at the same time? A. I could hear it a little bit from the distance. Q. Did it knock you over? A. Huh? Q. Did it knock you over? A. No, no. It wasn't that --- it was just like wind, you know. Q. Okay. A. I mean, it went quick after --- it took out like I forget how many stoppings it blowed. blowed a bit. Q. Did your cap lamp work? It (1) -0

14 1 A. I was there until --- well, as far as I know it worked, you know, but then eventually it went out, just like all the rest of them did. Q. When it initially happened, Randy, your team or the group was together, could you see the other folks that were there with you? crew that was with you initially The after the concussion, could you see the people that were with you in the mantrip had gotten out of the mantrip, your other crew members? A. You're talking about when the shift started? Q. No, when you first felt the concussion of it, the wind came 1 toward you. At that point in time, could you still communicate and see your other crew members? A. Yeah. Q. You indicated there was some smoke that came on. How long was it before you actually couldn't see the (1) -0

15 people that were with you? 1 A. Well, the time that I seen the smoke was the time that --- actually, that we had went back to the face, where we hung curtain to try to escape some of the gas. We just hung curtain and tried to get away from it because we knew it was unsafe air, you know, right there. We knew that Q. Do you recall trying to travel outby or toward the surface at any time? A. Yeah. Actually, tried to go outby as far as the shrapnel and debris gets, then we had to stop and 1 turn back around. That's when we 1 went and thought we had to go to somewhere in the face and hang the curtain up. Q. Were you walking or were you traveling on a bus, or do you remember? A. We were walking for a while, but not very long. Some people didn't have adequate means of (1) -0

16 breathing. 1 Q. Can we talk about that for a minute, the SCSRs? You tried to put them --- you went and put them on? A. Yeah. Q. In the return? Did you go back into the return and try to put them on? A. Actually, once we --- I think we put them on just before we entered the mantrip the second time. Q. Okay. A. I think so. Q. And you said that some people's didn't work? A. Right. Q. How could you tell? A. Well, it's a no-brainer. I mean, we've already been trained on those extensively. And there's a valve on it, a little brass valve. You have to turn it, you know, I forget which way, clockwise or counterclockwise, but you turn it and (1) -0

17 that gets it started. But you can't start until you actually put breath of your lungs in it. That's the initial starting point right there. And then you can breathe because there's a chemical in it. Q. But when you guys got together and tried to put them on, did people talk that they didn't work? Did 1 somebody yell they didn't work? A. Yeah, a lot of controversy. Q. Can we just go to the one that 1 you tried for the moment? Did it work okay, the one you put on? A. Uh-huh (yes). Mine worked fine. Q. And when you opened the valve that you're talking about, was there a plug in the mouthpiece that you had to take out? A. Was it the plug that you would have to actually take out? Q. Yes, sir. A. Yeah. (1) -0

18 Q. When you opened the cannister or the valve you're talking about, was it fresh air that came out of that mouthpiece, if you can recall? A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. Were you gathered together when you tried to put them on? A. Yeah. That's when we found out some of the guys' didn't work. Q. Do you recall, Randy, getting 1 back into the mantrip? You mentioned 1 a moment ago the second time. Did 1 1 you get back into the mantrip after the explosion at some point in time? A. I would say yeah, but I really didn't hear too many explosions or 1 nothing. nothing. one. It wasn't like multiple or It was just I remember that Q. All right. The smoke, did it change from one time to another? it get thicker? Did (1) -0

19 A. Actually, because there were so many stoppings knocked down, it 1 actually did kind of change. It kind of took everything, the air, into a circle, so it never did actually leave. So you know, it was just --- stayed right there. No one really didn't know what to do because it was just confused. So I guess it just spun around in circles. Q. Did the wind --- did the air 1 have dust? A. Some. Did it have particles? Q. Was anybody of the men with you --- was anybody in charge or anybody sort of taking the lead? A. Yeah, Junior Toler. Junior Toler. Q. Junior Hamner or Toler? A. Toler. Q. Toler, okay. A. That was my boss. Q. Yeah. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did people go to Junior or did (1) -0

20 he gather everybody together? A. Well, he just kind of took it upon himself to, I guess, put everybody together. Q. Was there a lot of communication between Junior and the rest of the crew as far as talking about what to do? A. Actually, yeah. Q. And were you in smoke when this communication was going on? 1 A. They had tried one time to see 1 how far they could get. They went 1 out there to see how far they could 1 get and come back real fast. The smoke was too thick. coughing and gagging. They come back 1 Q. But initially, when you first felt the concussion and you first knew there was an explosion underground, was there a lot of discussion at that time between Junior and the crew to decide what to do? (1) -0

21 A. Well, after we hung the curtain, there really was nothing left to do. I mean, that was pretty much the extent of it. Q. I was thinking more initially before you hung the curtain. When you knew there was an explosion, you got off the mantrip and then you knew that an explosion occurred and you think that you may have traveled outby some distances. I was wondering if there was some discussion or communication between Junior and the crew at that time about what you were going to do. A. I do remember Junior saying we're going to have to hit the section. Q. Did he say you have to hit the section? A. Hit the section, yeah. Q. Do you know where you were when he said that, Randal? Were you (1) -0

22 at the end of the track or had you traveled outby some distance? A. I don't know. Probably around where we had just found out we couldn't go no further. Q. So you came outby and ran into some obstructions or something that blocked you? A. Right. Q. Was that you or was that Junior and the other fellow that tried to get out? Is it the whole crew or just the other two? A. I'm not sure I understand. ATTORNEY CLAIR: Davitt, do you mind if we look at the map? Q. Would the map help you any, Randal? I've got an exploded view of the section with the track and where the mantrip was and things like that. Would that be helpful to you to look at the map? A. Yeah. (1) -0

23 Q. I know you've been mining for a while. I'm sure you've got ---. Let me just kind of orient you, Randal. This is actually the Two Left section that you guys worked on. This would have been the old area where they did the bottom mining that they speak of and the seals that they built here. So this is the headings. This is where you would have turned up and went up on to the second Left section. This, the red part, is a 1 track entry that you would have traveled in on a mantrip. traveled up to this point. about the end of the track. And you This is The 1 triangle here is where your tailpiece or your feeder would have been located on the section, where you would have dumped your coal. This area here is the area where you guys hung the curtains in Number Three crosscut. You can probably see that and tell where it was. A. Uh-huh (yes). (1) -0

24 Q. Does that help you get oriented? These two entries here would have been the primary intake, where air would have traveled up on the section. Of course, you had an entry adjacent to the track, and the track and then the belt one more. you had four entries here that was So common to the belt entry. And then over in this area would have been two return air courses. So as you recall, you think you were probably at this location at the end of the track when you first felt the forces of the explosion? BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Is that right, Randal, or had you gone from the end of the track up towards the face when you felt the first effects of the explosion? A. I believe that it didn't happen, per se, on the way. It probably happened on the section. Q. So using the map --- if you (1) -0

25 want to stand up here, we're happy to have you stand up. Using the map, just point out anything you think happened that helps you with ---. Q. And I'm orienting myself, too, with you. Up here is where you put your curtain, okay. Here's your track; right? ends? A. Yes. That's where the track Q. And of course, you come on out 1 through here. So after you --- you think at the time of the explosion you had already gotten off the mantrip and you were up in here somewhere, right, headed in this direction; is that correct? A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. Up towards the face; right? A. Right, heading towards the face. Q. Okay. And do you remember --- can you point to an area you think in that area where you might have been, (1) -0

26 or do you know? A. I kind of know if I actually found where that block --- where that's blocked off at for when we had to stop the mantrip, because you couldn't go no further. Q. We might be able to help you with that. This is the mantrip. This would have been where you would have taken the mantrip when you went underground initially. You probably 1 1 went up to the end of the track. at some point in time, the mantrip And 1 ended up back here. So evidently, if 1 1 you were at the end of the track when you felt the explosion, the mantrip traveled back outby to this location. So is this the place you're talking about then --- A. Yeah. Q. --- where you would have came back to? A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. That is the location where the (1) -0

27 mantrip is shown on this map or close to it? A. Yeah. Q. If you look at this, does that suggest --- do you think you remember trying to take the mantrip out the first time? A. I wasn't the one that drove the mantrip, actually, so I don't know. Q. But can you recall being on the mantrip and then being blocked by something, couldn't go any farther? A. Yeah. Q. And you think at that time you were trying to get out of --- off the mine or off the section, get outside when that occurred? A. Yeah. We were trying to escape, yeah. Q. Who was driving the mantrip; do you remember? (1) -0

28 A. Junior. Q. Junior? A. I think so. Junior, I believe. Q. So if you get blocked, then can you remember what you did after that? A. What's that? Q. What you do after --- you couldn't go any further on the mantrip, so do you remember what you did? A. We decided to turn around --- Q. Okay. A. --- as long as we could. So we headed to the section and hung curtain and ---. Q. Did you walk from that point? Once the mantrip was blocked, Randal, do you remember getting out of it? A. We took the mantrip as far in the section as it would go. Q. Outby or towards the section? A. Inby. (1) -0

29 Q. When you rode the mantrip and came back out and Junior was driving and you were blocked and you stopped 1 1 so you couldn't go any farther outby, at that point in time do you remember if you were in smoke or you were not in smoke? A. Actually, yeah. Q. You were in smoke? A. Yeah. Q. Did you have your self-rescuers on? A. Yeah. By that time, yeah. Q. We found some self-rescuer 1 bottoms. As a matter of fact, we 1 found all of them over here on the intake side. And I guess that just we sort of drew a conclusion that maybe in the intake is where you put the self-rescuers on, which would have been a little distance outby, about maybe 00 feet outby. A. See, I really wouldn't know that. That right there is very unclear to me because of the amount (1) -0

30 of smoke that was present there Q. When you put your self-rescuer on, do you remember if there was smoke around you at that time? A. Yeah. Q. There was? A. Yeah. Some, but not much. Not much at the time, but some, yeah. Q. So when you started to put yours on, did Junior suggest that you put them on or say, everybody get their SCSR on? A. Yes. Q. Anybody else? A. There were four total. Q. The four that didn't work? A. Yeah, four that did not work. Q. So once you put them on and four didn't work, is that when you said, get back up into the section? A. This is when Junior said, well, yeah, let's go ahead and --- this ain't safe like this. head back to the section. Let's go (1) -0

31 Q. Okay. What did they do with the self-rescuers that didn't work? 1 Some of them you indicated they had a problem breathing through them or some type of problem. Did they set them down or did they take them with them or what did they do with them? A. You mean for the ones that didn't work? Q. Yes. A. Probably sat them down 1 somewhere. Probably thrown them around some in aggravation. Q. When you got back, did you hang any other curtain or did Junior? A. Yeah. Actually, I took part, yeah, in hanging some. Q. Who else helped you? A. Junior, the buggy boy, Anderson. There could have been more people, you know, but --- people I don't remember. Q. Was Junior trying to direct (1) -0

32 the hanging of it, how it should be hung? A. Yeah. Actually, yeah. He was trying to make it leak-free. Q. Leak-free? A. Yeah. Q. Were curtains the only materials you had, Randy, to work with? A. Unless we could have put up a block wall, but ---. I mean, some barricades are made that way; are they not? ATTORNEY MCATEER: 1 Sure. 1 Q. You gathered materials off of the face area to build your barricades, Randy? A. Well, yeah, just decided to use curtains. I mean, here we got people without rescuers. Plus there would be work involved trying to put blocks up. It just wouldn't work. (1) -0

33 Q. When you were --- once you built your curtain and you were inside the barricade, you indicated people were without self-rescuers. Were people sharing a rescuer? A. Yeah. Actually, I shared mine with my bolting buddy. What's his name? Jerry Groves Q. Did he not have one at all, Randal? A. He did. That's the one we tried to get working, and it didn't work. Q. So you tried a second time with his? A. Huh? Q. You tried to work with his? A. Uh-huh (yes). He's the one that --- well, it aggravated me the most because really I wanted his to work. Q. Sure. BY ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Q. Just something that might be (1) -0

34 helpful as far as that reference point, did you try to help him get it working? A. Yeah. Q. What did you do? A. I fought with it for I don't know how long, trying to mess with that valve, blow air through it or anything I could do, but nothing would work. Q. Did you do that when he initially tried to put it on, Randal? Is that when this occurred? Q. Or was this up in the barricaded area? A. No, not in the barricaded. Everyone that could have had them on had them on by that time, before the barricade. Q. Don't feel bad you can't remember things. As Steve will tell you, and us too, as we get older, we (1) -0

35 can't remember things either. So don't worry about it. So just what you can, fine. And what you can't --- we don't mean to sort of pick on you because you can't remember. That's not at all the problem. You're doing great. It's helping us. 1 Q. Do you recall what the problem was with Jerry's self-rescuer, Randal? A. Something with the valve. When you turned it, his wouldn't 1 start up, you know. You put air into 1 it, you moved it, but there was 1 nothing going on with it. That's 1 what told me right there it was broken. Q. Did most everybody have their cap lamp on? But the cap lamps were still --- you had your helmets on, hardhats on? A. Yeah. Q. And so ---? (1) -0

36 A. Hardhat or the lamps? Q. The hardhat and the lamps? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. Had you worked in this section before; do you remember? A. The section we was at? Q. Yeah. A. Yeah. Q. Okay. A. Just, yeah, every day. That was normally my section right there. Q. And you're a buggy runner? A. No, bolter. Q. Bolter, okay. Q. It sounds like you tried to help Jerry get his SCSR going, make sure his was working. And when you 1 tried to turn the valve which would activate the cartridge, do you know if the plug was out of the mouthpiece or not at that time, Randal? A. Yeah, it was out. Q. And did he try to exhale into it in order to get the bags inflated (1) -0

37 and started working? A. Right. That's when I knew that he handed it over to me, because he couldn't get it started. And then I messed with the valve on it because I didn't know what else to do about it. Because I'm really --- I'm not too familiar with the inside --- inner workings of it because I don't build them. Q. Did you try exhaling into it to see if you could get it started for him? A. Yeah. Q. Had you ever worn one before? The SCSR, had you ever worn one before and used it? A. No. That's the first time. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did you have trouble breathing with it, a lot of resistance to your breath? Did it heat up, for example? A. Right. Q. What was it like? (1) -0

38 A. Yeah, a little bit. Q. A little resistance? A. The heat in your lungs, because that's what you're breathing because of occolite (phonetic), a chemical that s in it, which converts carbon dioxide into oxygen. chemical reaction. Q. Uh-huh (yes). It's a A. And so they get a little hot. Q. Was it difficult to breathe? Did you have to really work hard to get a good breath of air out of it --- A. Yeah. Q. --- or did it come pretty easy? A. Well, you kind of had to work with it a little bit. Q. Did anybody say --- if I can change the topic for a second. anybody say about concerns about Did carbon monoxide? Was there a discussion of that? Carbon dioxide? (1) -0

39 People saying this is bad air? A. Right. Well, there was not only lack of oxygen, there must be bad gas. Q. Sure. But was it talked about? A. Yeah. We --- yeah. Someone asked the question and then, yeah, well, we're in bad air and stuff like that, you know. Q. Did somebody have an instrument, Randal, that took --- like Junior, who was the foreman, could have read what the concentrations of the gases were? A. I don't know if --- I don't know if he had a spotter for that time or not. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did anyone have a spotter for gas? A. Let me think. Q. Do you need to take a break (1) -0

40 for a minute? Do you want to continue or do you want to take a break? A. Actually, I do. Actually, I need to use the bathroom. Q. All right. Well, let's do that. SHORT BREAK TAKEN Q. Was there a point where you had a discussion about a possible fire --- A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. --- among yourselves? A. Actually, I know that I was thinking about that, and it was not brought up. Q. Was not brought up? A. Was not brought up. I was thinking that. Q. You were thinking it, yeah, sure. Did you notice any time that --- when your colleagues were impacted by carbon monoxide or did you have any talk about that, bad (1) -0

41 air? You said you talked a little 1 bit about bad air, but ---. A. Yeah. Can you ask that question again? Q. We're trying to figure out a time when the air got bad. have any thoughts on that? Do you A. Probably ever since we noticed that something was wrong. Q. Does that mean right after the explosion or is that a little later? A. I don't know. Q. That's all right. Q. When Junior made the suggestion that you needed to go back to the face, was there any discussion about some people trying to get out or was it a group decision, we all need to go back, and ---? Q. Everybody agreed together? A. Right. Everyone had the same decision because we knew that it's not like we're going to just get out (1) -0

42 of there on the track. problems. That caused Q. How did you know --- what was it in your mind that made you think you couldn't get out of there? A. Because we were blocked. Q. Okay. By the debris or by the denseness of the smoke or ---? A. That was something that was definitely in the way. I don't know if the structure --- I don't know what it was. It was just kind of --- some kind of structure. Q. Okay. A. It might have been from the 1 overcast. It might have been, yeah, 1 the overcast. Q. Did you try to come out another entry, like the belt entry, Randy? A. We tried. It was smoky everywhere we went. There was just no air working the way we wanted it to. I mean, the air was real smoky (1) -0

43 and stuff. Q. As you were traveling these areas and you were in smoke, did you guys communicate from time to time about taking your mouthpiece out and talking about what you needed to do? A. Only for a brief second. Q. If you can recall, when you started back up on the section after you tried to escape and come out, 1 when you went back, was the air clear anywhere between where the mantrip is on the map and back to the face, 1 1 where you built the barricade? some point in time as you start At 1 1 traveling back toward the face, did you run back into clear air or encounter clear air? A. No. We had to make our own, try to block it out. That was the barricade. That was the purpose of the barricade. It kept a lot of smoke out, but I guarantee it didn't do too much on gas. Q. When you actually erected or (1) -0

44 hung the curtains, was it clear behind the curtains initially? A. You said that was what cut that the curtain was hung? Q. I'm sorry? A. You said what cut was that that the curtain was hung? Q. Here on the Number Three you could see how the curtains were hung here. Here's where we found them, so I assume Junior --- when you said you helped hang the curtains, you guys talked about the best place, 1 and you chose the best place. I 1 1 mean, that's probably the most air available, so that's a good decision on location. But when you hung these 1 curtains, was there any smoke in the area where you guys were standing? A. Only for a short period of time and then it just had faded out because no air was moving in there because, you know, you're barricaded. Q. Right. A. So I guess it did clear up a (1) -0

45 little bit Q. But initially when you put the curtains up on your side of the barricade, there was smoke when you guys hung your curtains and sat down? A. Smoke within the curtain? Q. Yes. Was there any smoke in there? A. No. They were careful about trying to not let that in. Q. And I know it's hard to recall, it would be hard for me, but can you remember as you went back about where the smoke ended on the section as you went over toward the area where you were going to build the barricade? In other words, the 1 smoke would have been more dense down in this area and it would have been lighter, you know, just simply because of the traveling distance. Can you remember about where you really started running out of the smoke, going back toward the section? A. One time, traveling the belt (1) -0

46 line, and that was enough to know that we were in real bad air because it was smoky and, I mean, you really couldn't see. It was just ---. Q. Were you traveling toward the surface or toward the section when you were on the belt line? A. I believe we were going to the section. Q. To the section? A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. Did the smoke hang in the air or did it just ---? A. Yeah. Yeah, it did. Q. So when you came down the belt line, you said you ran into --- it was so smoky you couldn't see? A. Right. Now, that's when we were trying to search for good air or something. That's when we noticed it was impossible because all the stoppings had been blown out, and we realized that wasn't possible. Q. All the stop --- and I didn't (1) -0

47 hear that other word. A. The stoppings had been blown out. Q. Okay. Q. So Junior discussed the plan. Was the reason to go back to the section because there was smoke outby? A. Yeah. We couldn't escape the smoke. There was nowhere to go because it just lingered everywhere, you know, just everywhere you went. Q. Did you have your nose clip on, Randal? A. Uh-huh (yes). Q. Your glasses, your goggles? A. Yeah. Q. Did everybody have those on? A. Yes. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did anybody experience any problems with the nose clip? A. Uh-uh (no). Not that I know of. (1) -0

48 Q. How did you trade off on the self-rescuers? You indicated that Jerry had a problem and some other folks, and you swapped out on the self-rescuers. It's about 1,00 feet from that area back to the face. How did you trade off with Jerry to where he used yours? A. I just sat up and handed it to him. Q. Excuse me? A. I sat up and handed it to him. Q. Okay. ATTORNEY CLAIR: 1 Behind the barricade. 1 Q. That's behind the barricade? A. Yes. Right, behind the barricade. Q. From the point out in this area where the mantrip was, around or crosscut, you guys traveled back to the face area. So there's a pretty good distance there. How did (1) -0

49 you trade off then with your self-rescuer? walking. You would have been A. I don't know. During the time you're talking about, I believe that no one would, at that time, really have any air. Because we were trying to walk and trying to find stuff. And I knew I had mine, and of course --- I mean, there was really no trading off until we actually got the curtain hung up and stuff like that. I mean, we had to get out of the smoke and stuff like that. Q. Sure. So the thinking was you had to get out of this smoke. But 1 once you decide to go back to the section, the smoke seems to be increasing, you're trying to get away from it? A. Right. Q. When you were scrounging around for the brattice and stuff, did you look for other equipment (1) -0

50 there? A. I'm not sure on how to answer your question. Q. When you get back there then and Junior says, let's put the curtains up and you said to make it leak-free, you called it, were any of the other men wearing their masks at the time or did you --- when you put the brattice up, did you have your SCSR on at that time? A. Not at that time. I was helping them get the curtains hung. Q. Sure. Q. Was it already open, though, Randy? A. Huh? Q. Was the SCSR already opened and you just didn't have it in your mouth? Had you already activated ---? A. Yeah, it was already activated. Yeah. But I just took it out when I had to do that. I didn't (1) -0

51 want to have to Q. Was the air clear in that area where you were doing that? why you took it out? Is that A. Well, I guess as clear as it could be as far as looking-wise. Q. When Junior and Anderson --- A. Yes, sir. Q. --- left the barricade temporary, you said they tried to make an attempt to get out. A. Right. Q. Do you got any idea about how long they were gone? A. Not long, maybe a minute and 1 a half. Minute and a half, maximum. 1 Q. A very short period of time? A. Right. Q. They would not have had time to go back down to the track then? A. Right. I know they were pretty exhausted when they came back, coughing and gagging. Q. Did they mention how far they had went? (1) -0

52 1 A. They wanted to go up to the power car. Q. Power center? A. Right. Q. That would have been --- the power center is located just right across from the tailpiece. A. Right. Q. Did they make it down to the power center? A. Yeah. Q. They did? A. They made it, but then they 1 had to turn back around. Whatever they needed to do they were doing. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did they have their SCSR on when they tried to escape? A. I assume, yes, because that would be a long period of time trying to leave and think about not having one on. they had. So I'm making an assumption Q. You said they were coughing? (1) -0

53 A. Yeah. Q. So I thought maybe they wouldn't have had their SCSR on. A. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe just coughing off the side of the mouth or something like that. not sure. I'm Q. When they came back, did they lay down? A. No, they didn't lay down there. They stayed and sat up in position. Q. Now, you pounded on the roof bolts? A. Do what? Q. Didn't somebody pound on the roof bolts? A. Yeah. All of us took turns doing that. Q. For how long; do you know? A. A long time. Q. When you did that, did you take your self-rescuer off? (1) -0

54 A. You had to because you'd get exhausted real quick. Q. Then did you put it back on when you quit pounding? A. Right. Q. Were you able to go back to breathing through it at that point in time then? A. Yep. Q. Where did you get the hammer to pound with? A. It was a sledgehammer. Q. Was it? A. I really don't know where it came from, but it was definitely there. hard. We hit them bolts pretty I remember that. 1 Q. Do you have any idea, Randal, about how much time elapsed roughly between the time you first felt the concussion and the time that you actually hung the curtains? A. Not really. (1) -0

55 Q. If we can go back to the concussion just for a minute. Did you feel any tightness or did you just hear something? A. More just like pretty much heard something. Q. Did your ears pop? Do you recall that? A. I don't remember. I'm sure it's feasible. And I have been --- like when we were working on the longwall --- do you know what a rock buster, fire one off? Q. Uh-huh (yes). A. Sometimes that thing can do that to you, make your ears pop. Q. Was it as loud as a rock buster or less or more? A. I don't know. Probably less. A rock buster is pretty loud. Q. Do you recall seeing Terry Helms at all that day, Randal? (1) -0

56 A. No. That was the fire boss; right? Q. Fire boss. I think he walks belts and things like that. You guys didn't pick him up on your mantrip going in and drop him off? A. No. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Randal, do you remember the names of the miners whose SCSRs did not work? A. Jerry Groves was one, 1 Anderson. Okay. Jesse, his one did not work. He was the other one. Is that three? Okay. Q. I'm just trying to correlate where we found the bottoms in relation to where the SCSRs were deployed. That helps us kind of piece together what happened during the course of the shift. I'm asking the question. That's why But do you recall when you first deployed your self-rescuer, were you standing or (1) -0

57 were you on a bus? A. Yeah, I was standing. Q. You were standing. A. Yeah. Q. And would that have happened after you tried to make your initial escape? A. No --- well, yeah, after the escape, yeah. After it, yeah. 1 Q. You said there was a lot of controversy about the SCSR. A. For the people that it didn t 1 work. Nobody fought over mine. 1 1 Q. Nobody ---? A. Nobody had fought over mine or something. it. We were just good about 1 Q. There were three people, and we appreciate you identifying those for us, that had problems. You said Jerry's problem was that he couldn't get it activated or couldn't get the bag to inflate. What kind of (1) -0

58 problems did the other two have, or do you know? A. I don't know. I messed with all them guys' that didn't work. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Again, for the record, simply just doing --- trying to find out what we do know, he has identified a fourth individual. Anna, do you know the fourth name? MRS. MCCLOY: 1 Junior Toler. 1 1 ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Junior Toler was 1 identified for us. His was not working, just for your 1 information. to ---. I'm not trying us. MR. MCKINNEY: No, that's helpful to Thank you. Q. So Junior Toler also had a problem with his? (1) -0

59 A. Right. Q. So when Junior was making decisions and talking about where you need to go, he didn't have a self-rescuer, a functional self-rescuer on at that time? A. Right. He did not. Q. Were you in smoke at that time? A. Is this when we're trying to get out? Q. Yes. Or put on the 1 self-rescuers. When you first tried to put your self-rescuers on, were you in smoke? A. Yeah, that's --- that was when we were on foot. Q. Excuse me, Randy? A. We was on foot for that, that part. There's two parts of it. There's a part where we were on foot and then there's the part where we was on the mantrip. Q. Okay. A. Now, when we was on foot, (1) -0

60 that's when the smoke got the heaviest. Q. When you were in the mantrip 0 and you started out, did you run into smoke while you were in the mantrip? A. Yeah. Q. And then you got out of the mantrip and you didn't have a self-rescuer on at that time? A. Yeah. Actually, I had one on, yeah. I did. 1 1 Q. Did you put yours on before everybody else did? A. Well, for those four people 1 1 that it didn't work, yeah. people, yeah. For those 1 Q. What about the rest of you, did you all put them on at the same time? A. Yeah. Everyone put them on at the same time, yeah. Q. Can you remember who trained you on that self-rescuer? A. I believe it was Al (1) -0

61 Schoonover Q. Can you remember anything about that training, Randal, things that he may have told you? A. Uh-huh (yes). Yeah. All that a person can remember. Q. Can you tell us how he trained you and what he told you about the self-rescuer at that training? BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Did he use a training model --- A. Yeah. Q. --- and show you how to activate it? A. Yeah. Q. Did you put it on? A. I don't remember actually going that far with it, but yeah, I knew how it worked, yeah. Q. Did the other gentlemen seem to know how it worked also that were with you? (1) -0

62 A. Uh-huh (yes). We've been trained on it a numerous amount of times. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Were there drills on escapeways and what to do in an explosion or mine emergency? Did you have that training underground? A. Yeah. But our options were next to none. I mean, there was just no way of doing anything that you wanted to do as far as getting out. Anything that led you to point A, to point B, no, it just couldn't work. Q. Because, again, of the ---? A. The concentrations of gas and smoke present. Q. Okay. A. You couldn't see, couldn't breathe. Q. And Toler, who was the foreman, he didn't have a functional self-rescuer? (1) -0

63 A. Right. His did not function Q. Or at least couldn't get it to work? A. Right. Q. Was there anybody in the group that dissented and said they wanted to go out, or was it a group decision to go back, Randal? A. I know what some people are probably thinking, but you know, you can't do something --- when it's that dangerous, you can't do it. Q. Did you think they were going to try to rescue you? A. Who, the rescuers? Q. People on the surface. A. Yeah. Actually, yeah. I figured that they'd bring that machine down and would have found us, would have drilled the hole in the right spot and would have took us out of there. That's what I expected. I was expecting to hear shots fired on the roof, on the roofs on top, above, (1) -0

64 and didn't hear nothing. We banged and banged and banged, everyone did. Q. Did you discuss that with anybody? A. Yeah. Actually, yeah. We had a discussion about that, about how long it was going to take. We thought that we was going to get rescued. And as time went on, it didn't look good. Q. You mean the machine that --- talking about ---? A. Whatever machine they used to locate people. Q. At Quecreek? A. Huh? Q. Like the one at Quecreek, the one in Pennsylvania? ATTORNEY GOODWIN: I think what he understood is a machine that could hear them hitting, the tapping, a seismograph or something. ATTORNEY MCATEER: (1) -0

65 Oh, okay Q. So you guys talked about the fact that you were going to go back and wait for a borehole to be drilled down to rescue you? A. Well, yeah, that's what we wanted, but we never did know that I guess they didn't have any equipment to --- they just didn't have that machine to do that task. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Another informational item. I'm not trying to --- inside their helmets, they had instructions on what to do. And there was a sticker that said, try to get out. If you 1 can't get out, go back, locate a place, hang curtains and tap on the bolts. MR. MCKINNEY: Just for the record, I think what that sticker says is that you do all the things (1) -0

66 you just suggested, but you wait until you hear three shots before you ever tap on bolts. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: I certainly didn't know, but that was kind of what they were looking to do, I think. MR. MCKINNEY: The idea being you don't expend your energy until you know you're saved. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: But since we're making the record, that never happened. They were never --- because there wasn't anyone up on top listening, as far as we're able to estimate. ATTORNEY MCATEER: Yeah. Q. Did you look at your hat for those instructions? Did you look (1) -0

67 1 1 1 inside or just somebody said to start tapping? A. No, I didn't have to look at my hat to know that. Q. Sure. A. I just knew. Q. Sure. Q. Did you each take turns, Randy, or was there a certain group ---? A. Yeah. Q. Each of you took turns? A. Yeah, banging on the bolt. I know that one guy kind of got a 1 little bit angry. See, I wanted them 1 to bang one bolt and one bolt only, the same exact bolt, so if they were trying to, you know, to know where that sound was coming from instead of bang here, bang there, bang here and everywhere. You can't do that. You got to make sure you --- same spot, people will find you. Q. Was somebody tracking the (1) -0

68 time, Randal, that you were back there? A. It was several hours before people started calming down. Q. Did anybody have a watch? A. Huh? Q. Did anybody have a watch? A. Yeah, Junior did. Q. Junior Toler? A. (Indicates yes). Q. Did he check the watch? A. (Indicates yes). Q. And tell everybody what time it was or ---? A. I don't know, unless somebody asked. out. I didn't hear him shouting it 1 Q. Do you know about how long it was as an estimate, Randal, before Junior and Anderson made the attempt to leave until when they come back behind the barricade? A. Probably within an hour and a (1) -0

69 half, give or take. Q. After you actually went behind the barricade, about an hour and a half? A. Yeah. This is when they were getting eager, wanting to get out there, see everything, see how far they could make it. I think that attempt was for --- was trying to get to fresh air pockets, --- Q. Okay. A. --- is what I think that attempt was for, or some kind of --- just some kind of means of finding another place to try to escape a different way. Q. Did they bring anything back with them? A. No. Q. Did anybody ever try to call out, Randal, on the radio or the telephone or anything? A. All that stuff was damaged. Q. I understood there was a (1) -0

70 wireless communication system at the section that you guys used to talk 0 back and forth with. Did anybody ever attempt to use that? A. I don't remember anything about that, per se, during that time, but I know that it didn't work. couldn't have possibly worked. It Q. When you were sitting behind the barricade and you had self-rescuers on, when someone pounded, they took that off, the 1 self-rescuer off; right? And at that point in time, like if you were pounding, did Junior --- I'm sorry, did Junior or Jerry share yours then? What did you do with your SCSR when you started pounding bolts? A. Probably set it down beside me where I was sitting, just leave it where I was sitting, and then get up, grab the hammer and hit the bolt, the same bolt and hit --- bang on the bolt. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: (1) -0

71 Q. You had the strap around your neck and the --- A. Goggles. Q. --- goggles and the nose clip on? A. Right. 1 Q. And then you took the SCSR off and then would bang on the bolt? Or did you just take the mouthpiece out? A. Yeah, I took the mouthpiece out probably --- and nose clips probably. Q. But you kept the self-rescuer physically on your body? A. No. I just took the strap and wrapped it up and sat it down beside me. The only time I actually took it 1 off was the times that I was banging on the bolts. Q. Did the other fellows take theirs off as well? A. The ones who had theirs working? Q. Yeah. (1) -0

72 A. Yeah. Q. When you sat yours down while you were beating on the bolts, did someone use yours or did you take it off, wrapped your straps around it and set it down? it? Did somebody use A. They could have. Q. Excuse me? A. They could have. It's feasible that it could happen. Q. Did you have your goggles on when you were behind the barricade? A. Yeah. That's why we walked up on that one trip, to go on the belt line, wearing goggles to try to keep out the smoke and all that stuff out of your eyes. Q. When you went behind the barricade, did you take your goggles off then or did you leave them on? A. I took them off then. Q. On the way back from where you (1) -0

73 were trying to escape out the belt line and other areas, did you take your goggles off as you walked back toward the barricade? A. No. Q. Left them on? A. Left them --- yeah, I left them on. Q. We've asked you a lot of questions. Is there something that you want to talk about or say that you, in your mind, want us to know about? A. Not really. Q. Would it be possible, Randal, and if it's too much it's okay, but I know you seem to have a good grip on the map of where you traveled. Would it be possible, if we gave you a pen, that you could kind of show us your route of travel after the initial concussion? that? Would you be able to do (1) -0

74 A. Well, I really --- I really didn't see, I just heard the concussion. Q. Right. But when you heard that, then you began to make some movements. And I think what we're saying now and what was indicated is you tried to come outside or you started towards the surface and got blocked. And would it be possible for you to start where you think you were when you first felt the concussion and then just draw where you think you traveled to until you --- just an estimate? A. When it did all that, blowed them stoppings out, that's probably where them big winds came from. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Randal, do you feel comfortable drawing on the map today or would you rather not? A. I don't know if that would even be accurate. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: (1) -0

75 Well, let's not do that then. ATTORNEY MCATEER: If you'd like, we can provide a map and you can, at his leisure, take the time. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: Absolutely. That might be beneficial. We'll certainly work at that for you. ATTORNEY MCATEER: 1 How about that? Okay MR. MCKINNEY: We'll put things on there that we found so you can see those. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: 1 Right. That would be great. helpful. That would be very ATTORNEY CLAIR: You can just take this map back with you. ATTORNEY GOODWIN: (1) -0

76 Okay. We could do that. And if there's any other things you could --- might remember that may be good reference points, I'd appreciate that, too. ATORNEY MCATEER: Sure Q. I get the impression from the several comments that you've made that everybody generally felt like there was no way out; is that right? A. Yeah. Well, because there really wasn't. Q. Right. A. All of our options were diminished to nothing. Q. Was that decision then based on the fact that smoke and gases ---? A. Yeah. And of course, the one --- whatever had fallen to block the track, that too. Q. Right. So as you think back, (1) -0

77 you can recall riding the mantrip back outby and being blocked on the track by something? A. Yeah. BY ATTORNEY CLAIR: Q. Randal, when you were behind the barricade with the group, was there one time when everyone decided to take the SCSRs off, to stop working and then people took them off, or did you just say so much time has gone by that they're not working 1 or ---? What I'm interested in is when did people take off the SCSR and no longer have it strapped to them? A. Probably when they ran out for the ones that did have them. Q. Do you remember yours running out? A. (Indicates yes). Q. Can you recall someone stating that theirs had expired or been exhausted and ran out? (1) -0

78 A. I can't give you names, but I know that there was --- they kept them all in a pile that had the ones that worked. Q. They did what, Randal? I'm sorry. A. The ones that didn't, slash, and did work. After the gases was clear out of them, they put them down somewhere. Q. Was there much conversation among the fellows? A. What? Q. Just among you and the other fellows down there, was there much conversation? A. A little bit. Q. Except for Junior and Anderson making an excursion, a little trip outby the barricade, was there some dissension about the decision at some point in time that maybe we should have tried to get out rather than (1) -0