PART IV APPENDIX. Interviews

Transcription

1 PART IV APPENDIX Interviews

2 Names of Interviewee Page Aloke Dey 3 Anil Radhakrishnan 13 Anup Deb 23 Anup Mukherjee 53 Biswadeep Chatterjee 91 Dileep Subramanian 122 Dipankar Chaki 150 Hitendra Ghosh 181 Hitesh Chaurasia and Jayadevan Chakkadath 204 Jyoti Chatterjee (part I) 243 Jyoti Chatterjee (part II) 269 Kunal Sharma 292 Manas Choudhury and Bobby John 308 Nakul Kamte 337 P M Satheesh 364 Pritam Das 415 Promod Thomas 434 Resul Pookutty 460 Shyam Benegal 504 Subhas Sahoo 520 Sukanta Majumdar 547 Vinod Subramanian 575 Biographies and Filmographies 614 2

3 Aloke Dey (2014) Duration: 00:30:35 Name Abbreviations: Aloke Dey A; Budhaditya Chattopadhyay Q Other Abbreviations: Laughter - LG Q: As a background I would like to ask you about your coming to sound, and subsequently into the film industry. A: as a profession? Q: yes. A: I really didn t have that kind of a focus as such after my graduation. There was a good studio at that time, a sound recording studio very close to my place, well known in Kolkata at that time. So I used to go there generally, but I never thought that I ll get into this kind of a profession. So only one thing I don t know somehow I decided not to join any kind of work like banking and all that stuff. So I just got to know about FTII, that there is a sound engineering course and all that; because I went to technicians studio where one of my relatives used to work, Satyen Chatterjee. Q: ok. A: famous sound engineer. A: I just went there to see what normally sound recording is and how they do it. And at that time I think Satyajit Ray s film was going on, they were recording background score. So I went there. He asked me, ok you can come and see it inside. See how we work and what we normally do. Then he said, If you re interested then you can contact few people. There is a film institute at Poona, that was the only institute at that time. So he said, You go and meet few people here in Calcutta, find out what it is exactly and if you re interested then you can appear for the exam. So that is how I met a few seniors in Calcutta and they guided me really very well. And then I appeared for the exam n got in. So that is how it started. But even before joining the FTII it was not decided that what kind of field I ll be working. Whether it s the music recording field, or it s a re-recording field, it s a dialogue recording field or it s a location recording field, now there are so many sections. Earlier it was only either studio work or it is recording section or music or dubbing or you go for freelancing which is location recording. At that time there was no concept of sync sound recording for film as such, though it is a very old concept. People at that time were not using it as sync sound. It came much later in film I m talking about. So now there is another profession, that way. 3

4 Q: but then, after finishing the film school you came to the (film) industry, isn t it? A: yes. To be very frank my hometown is Calcutta, so I ve been to those places where I met, I told you, few seniors, one of them was in NFDC, Anup Mukherjee. A: so I met him. I met Sanjay Mukherjee out there. And at that time Anup Mukherjee was in NFDC, with Jyoti Chatterjee and all. I just went there during my tenure in FTII. So I saw them working. I really felt bad. I don t know whether I should say or not, it was not really a very professional kind of work they were doing - the way they were doing actually. Maybe that s the way they do it, I had no idea. So that is the time I decided I would not come to Calcutta to do all this work. Q: did you start as a mixing engineer in the industry? A: yeah, assistant mixing engineer. See when I was in the institute I got the offer from one of the studio here. So that was a re-recording set-up basically, Anand recording studio. So I joined as a second assistant. And both of them were also from FTII, chief sound recordist was Kuldeep Sood and first assistant was Anup Deb. So I was the second assistant. I worked there for five years as a recordist. Then I started mixing on my own as well. Then after that I joined Sunny super sound. I was there for ten years. Yes, from 94 to 2004 I was there. So initially there was no re-recording set up as such and everyone was recording in analog at that time. So the chief recordist was also from FTII, Mr. Suresh Pathuria, he was there. So he offered me to join in Sunny and asked me to start it with a digital platform known as Protools. That was the first commercial use of Protools in India rather. So I started with that and I was doing music recording and song mixing basically. Then we had a big set up for music as well. So that we converted to Dolby Digital mixing set up. It was only a Dolby set up, at that time Dolby digital was not there, it was only Dolby SR. but 5.1 was introduced in India from there. That was the first studio, and rather the first digital console as well in Asia at that time. So I got that opportunity so I utilized that. So any platform basically is not an issue at all for me to understand or to work with. Q: so you started your career with digital technology, right? A: no, not really, in 89 I joined. Q: ok. A: 89 to 94 I was in Sunny; that was completely analog magnetic and rather a mono era. But of course we also did four-track stereo. At that time we used LTRT Ultra stereo. And then Dolby came. The four-track was on film with magnetic coating. We did few films. In fact Maine Pyar Kiya was also in that format and as well as Ultra stereo. Ultra 4

5 stereo they got it first before Dolby. And then so many films we did after that in that format. Then Dolby came to India with their SR unit, which is a noise reduction unit for music purpose. Then they introduced Dolby SR, then 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 and Atmos. In between S-DTS and DTS also came. Now again it s Auro. So it s a different format, different technology rather. Q: what is your impression on this changeover from analog domain to the digital from a more aesthetic point of view? A: see, everything has got advantage and disadvantages. So in digital the way you work now, it s much faster; everything is user friendly. Earlier if I need to change anything which means that I ll have to go record that part or maybe get it from somewhere, transfer that on magnetic, put it exactly in sync with that film and then get it. It is a minimum of three to four hours of work, which is now three to four second s work. So that s the difference. And since the machine is doing everything today actually we are not using our memory. At that time it was only a ten minutes reel though, it was not twenty minutes reel. But we used to keep every moment of the film of ten minutes in memory and we used to work like a machine. So now the machine is doing everything. So we have got multi-track recording in music set up, which is really good. But people started misusing it. At one point of time for the music director it is like, I have recorded two hundred tracks for this particular song. And if you actually calculate out of those two hundred tracks may be twenty tracks are good enough for that particular song. They re just layering one-sixty track tracks unnecessarily. And they don t know why they are adding it either without any idea or without any concept. It s not all of them but very few, you can count them those people who are sensible, who can use those one sixty tracks as well, they are doing the right thing. But of course the sensible people, they are also not recording two hundred tracks at the same time. They are quite confident about what they want. What they wanted was kind of limited in analogue because probably you didn t have the choice, didn t have many options, right? A: yeah, that s what I am saying. The numbers of tracks have increased now. Earlier we used to do only mono mixing, ok? So dialogue used to come in maximum two tracks. One was the main dialogue track; the other one was the crowd, ok? Now the dialogue tracks are also like hundred tracks, two hundred tracks. Even music, even the songs, it was only one track they used to send. It s a mixed track and from there only we were doing the final mixing. So now you are handling all the separate tracks as well to balance that, even a song, even background score, even dialogues, even effects - everything. So 5

6 actually you are handling too many tracks, but giving them the same output. Instead of mono you re giving it in 5.1 format or maybe Atmos format, that is the only difference there. Q: do you find that a bit problematic with so many tracks in hand? A: sometimes it is. Because it s not just that, there are so many tracks to handle. It is the decision, which you are taking - that how many tracks you are actually eliminating. So rather than the creative aspect, you are trying to do something which is also creative, but eliminating tracks. So your concentration, your mood, the whole flow, you re wasting your energy into that. Why is it so? Because in today s time whoever is working here in a separate zone altogether, somebody is doing dialogue, somebody is doing effects, somebody is doing ambience, somebody is doing music this complete co-ordination actually is the work of a sound designer. But sound designer cannot help it if the picture is releasing suppose on the 10 th of this month, the music director who is doing the background score - he is completing it on the 1 st of the month. So you will have only nine to ten days to complete the film! Forget about the same track, sound designer will get and he will design it accordingly or the effects he is taking and he is scoring his music accordingly it is not so. People who are well planned they are doing that. Because they can afford to do that, because they have enough time, they have not fixed their release. So that way if you work you will definitely get a much better work. Because that coordination has to happen, whether it is today, tomorrow or in future. Q: but the number of channels in digital media offers more flexibility. How do you use that flexibility in terms of let s say the placement of sound? I mean - compared to mono, surround 5.1 offers much more flexibility I think. Do you agree with this opinion? If you agree, then how do you handle it? A: see flexibility in the sense earlier it was mono, you knew that you ll have to accommodate everything in one track. A: so the elimination process was there as well. Since you have multi tracks but your format is again the same. Instead of mono it s 5.1. Since you have the option you have the opportunity, you can use your machine, you can use your tools you keep on increasing your number of tracks. And later on you are just eliminating number of tracks. So that s a wrong process. That s what I am saying, there has to be some kind of coordination between all the team members whoever is working for that particular film. If that happens I am sure taking the opportunity of the equipment s or the tools, the result will be much better. Then the music director will also think about his dynamics whether 6

7 in this kind of environment where there is a dialogue, there are effects, there is some kind of ambience what kind of instrument is he going to use? Otherwise what is he doing? He is doing just the music recording without thinking of anything else. So that same music, if it is the same frequency is disturbing some other element, so he ll have one option. Either you eliminate music or you eliminate effects. So at that time you have a choice. So whom are you giving the priority? The one you require according to your concept. It is not right always. So according to your concept you are giving that priority. But at the same time if he had the effects or if he had the music, the sound designer, he could have used some other tone, some other effects altogether. And maybe the same effects he can filter it out. He ll keep that effect particularly in that band of frequency, which will not affect the music. So both can be accommodated together. But if you have time to think about all that, then you can really design your sound that way. So for everything you need time. Sound post-production becomes very people think that, ok my background score is over; my dialogue is over. Now we can finish within five days and complete the film. It s not so. They may be getting their film that way, there s no doubt. I am also doing it, there s no option for me. But I cannot utilize those numbers of tracks, flexibilities, what you are talking about. At that time I ll have a time limitation, I ll have to complete the job and give it to them because they are releasing the film. Q: how do you like to proceed with the multi-channel option in an ideal situation? A: that s what I told you. I ll design the entire film in a different way altogether, it s a different perspective altogether. I can create two hundred tracks to make one sound. I have that choice after getting the music or may be the dialogue. I may eliminate sixty tracks. But that does not mean that why I have used those two hundred tracks unnecessary. I used that to create that particular effect, the particular nature of effects. Q: what are the advantages of those multiple channels? There are so many channels in hand. How are they being used in comparison to mono? A: in comparison to mono? Q: yes, mono mix. A: earlier, mono mix suppose, I am giving the example of a song. See, your vocal is accommodated in that, your rhythm tracks are accommodated in that and then rest of the instruments. I mean whether it s a solo instrument whether it s anything else in that particular song composition. So now you have that flexibility that you can use multiple tracks. So they are recording fifty tracks of only strings, thirty tracks of only solo instruments. But ultimately they are bringing it down to two tracks, four audio and 5.1 or 7.1 or Atmos or Auro into that format. So whether it is two hundred tracks or four 7

8 hundred tracks doesn t matter at that time. But since you have those tracks you can actually balance which portion you want to keep, what are the instruments in which level. So that option you have. Earlier you had only a mixed track. So if you wanted to eliminate something you cannot do that. So then again you ll have to go back and do the mixing and get it back. but space-wise, spreading out of materials or elements into more elaborate design is possible. Is it done that way? What we see is a spreading out of the sounds beyond the screen. A: yeah. Q: 5.1 can allow you to do the work in that expansive way, right? A: yes it does. You are surrounded by speakers. So you can create that width - since earlier it was a single source, A: so you were creating that same thing but from single point of source. And with that you were trying to create that perspective from that point. So that same kind of a perspective you can create from different sources. But what I believe, that if I am doing a film work, a film mixing, I am concentrating straight to that on screen. Since I have 128 speakers or 64 speakers or tracks rather, I should not create something in which the person who is watching the film will get distracted. Just I have 64 tracks to distract you, that I have created some sound from 30 th channel or 29 th channel, that s not the idea. The idea is that the whole surround - means when you re sitting and watching a film you should feel that you are into it. Number of tracks or number of speakers does not allow you to distract anyone to watch a film. Q: but then numbers of channel are increasing every day, I mean A: that s what I am saying, that what I said that 64 to 128. Q: what is the reason for the increase in the number of speakers? And how are they being handled? A: how are they handled is completely subjective. Till today - see this new format Atmos has come, if you count hundred films they have already done, whoever has done, out of them you can actually count maybe four or five films who have utilized that format Dolby Atmos properly to make you hear the right sound. So 95% people, they re misusing it. My idea is not to create gimmick and show you that, see some ferriwalah is moving around. And some important scene is going on, so that is distraction. 8

9 Q: to keep that balance and to have a focus on the screen, making use of a number of speakers around you is needed. How to keep that balance? How to keep not being distracted? A: there is a ratio you have to choose, in which ratio you ll keep what kind of sound, so that you will not get distracted. The moment you will get distracted audience will also get distracted. So you ll have to create that width, the dynamics to get it right. Whether in terms of music, whether in terms of ambience, whether in terms of effects - everything. Q: this is not clear to me why so many speakers. And what kinds of sound elements are being distributed in these speakers. Why is this extra space there firstly? Why are so many speakers there? Why are they needed at all? We could be satisfied with 5.1. A: why do you need 5.1 then, according to you? Mono was there. All the classic films were done in mono. Then why do we need 5.1? Q: yes, why? I am also not sure. A: so it s the technology. Day by day whatever technology is coming you ll have to get used to that and create. Whatever the new format has come utilize that in proper manner. When I said 100 films - that includes films made all over the world. It s not only in India. The new format, they are not utilizing it properly, 95% of them is like that. That includes all top engineers, all over the world. They are unnecessarily creating noise and making it too loud. That is not the concept of 5.1 or 7.1 or Atmos. The concept is the same thing, which you said that maybe you are inside the theatre; you re enjoying the film. Why? Because you feel you are there. So to create that ambience you can utilize the speakers, nothing else. Q: so it s primarily for ambience, right? A: yes ambience, maybe music, maybe music reverb, maybe dialogue reverb/perspective anything you can use. But there is nothing fixed, there is no law. There is no rule, it s up to you to decide what to keep and where. No one is going to teach you that way if you keep this element in this particular surround area. Q: coming back to the rudimentary: what do you think ambience does to cinema? The element of ambience A: see there are two types basically. One which you can see it on screen, maybe it is night so you are using night cricket, maybe light breeze or whatever elements you are using. The other type of ambience, which is not seen you re creating that. In one particular film they re just showing a building, some roads and all that. But you are using a train horn. It s nowhere, a railway station, but you are using it as a character. And if you are actually using it in a proper manner, a proper way rather it should come at 9

10 maximum three to four times. But you ll keep that in mind, they have used one train horn in that particular part and it really worked. But if you re hammering it a hundred times no one will say. They ll say, We have just put it to create some kind of platform or railway station kind of a thing. And use of ambience now people they are choosing all these sounds like even bird sounds. Because I have done so many films, I have got so many tracks, some people don t understand in which point of time, which bird s call should be there. There are very few. They re just putting the bird s ambience, any particular solo birds. Very few people understand that and they place it accordingly to register it. Otherwise rest of the people is just putting it as a track. There s another bird track, there s a solo bird track. In reality you can hear it during that period of time or that geography nobody understands. So that is creativity. That is another kind of audience. You re actually giving another dimension to the film. Q: what is the basic difference you find between the uses of ambience in mono and in surround while working with each of them? A: earlier we were using ambiences most of the time not to keep any silence in the optical track because the optical track was creating ground noise; in theater you could really hear that. To suppress that you were using those sounds like birds and everything, because rest of the things like dialogue, effects and music are actually occupying the entire space of the mono track. That is again a difference now, you have so many tracks you can really create some layers and make a kind of a feel out of it. 10

11 Anil Radhakrishnan (2014) Duration: 00:22:53 Name Abbreviations: Anil Radhakrishnan A; Budhaditya Chattopadhyay Q; Other Abbreviations: Laughter - LG Q: You have primarily worked with eight channels out of which two or three channels were for dialogues, isn t it? A: yeah. Maximum like four channels, three characters three lapels and one boom. But usually the seventh and eighth channel will be free because in a scene most of the time you have the characters but you don t have that many dialogues. So you have the freedom of having the seventh or eighth channel for ambience. Q: what about balancing the boom and the lapel mike? How do you decide on the location? A: see basically it s all getting recorded into separate channels. So I monitor a mixed track but the balance between the boom and the lapel is not that important if you do a multi-track recording - because everything is getting recorded in different channels. On dialogue you have the freedom of adjusting the level. Suppose you want the boom in this level and the lapel in separate. In dialogue if we just keep the boom in good level and if we just keep the lapel for the presence. But depending on the scene. Sometimes if it s really noisy and you don t want that much noise, then you keep the lapel a bit up, then reduce the boom. So while recording I ll keep a medium level for the lapel. I don t really do the balance between the boom and the lapel on location. Since it s all recording on different channels so you can do that in the post. But earlier times when you mixed into a two track or something then you need to have a balance between the boom mic being a single track recording then you need to mix. Q: on location you have to mix, right? A: yeah, and you cannot have all the faders up. Now you can, even though the other character is not speaking, there also the fader will be up. Because it s getting recorded in different channels, it s not disturbing any other tracks. But earlier like supposedly three characters are talking they used to operate the faders according to the conversation, because if you keep all the faders up it ll make more noise, it gets more floor noise. It increases, adds the noise to the track. So they used to keep all the necessary faders up. Nowadays people give, even I also operate - if a character is going out of the frame then you reduce the track or keep that out. But otherwise you keep all the tracks on. 11

12 Q: so you don t need the production mixer anymore, right? A: you need a production mixer because in a scene sometimes there are dialogues, which will be very loud. Sometimes some dialogues are very soft. So you need to adjust those individual channels. What I m saying that balance between the boom and a lapel is not very important. But you need to balance all the tracks. That level you need to take care of. Q: how do you maintain continuity between ambiences? For instance if you shoot in a day sequence, let s say in the late afternoon, A: hm, Q: and then you record ambience on location dry, A: hm, Q: but that ambience primarily consists of production noises. A: yeah. Q: for example people speaking, camera handling, operator s sound - those noises. A: no, that we control. That is not allowed on a sync sound set at least while we shoot. That all we have to control because those are the things we need to take care while we shoot. There should be a discipline on set. So all that unwanted sound we stop, we control it at least. But like you said, when the day progresses the change in ambience is there. The morning ambience is not the same as the afternoon ambience. So what we do is that, supposedly I record two tracks of the ambience in the morning also with that, sometimes I record room tones of different time. I record a morning room tone, may be as the day progresses I record a different time s ambience. So towards the evening it s like many different ambiences all together. We ll have like more. So that time also you record a different ambience. And during the dialogue edit you have to put on the ambience for one or two tracks in dialogue edit, we used to do in dialogue edit. Not for the effects edit or the ambience laying, we select one ambience and we put it throughout the scene. So that will mask a lot of the ambience jumps between the... Q: ok, one ambience track continues, isn t it? A: yeah continues. Q: for a sequence? A: for a sequence, for a scene. That s why we record like a one-minute continuous ambience track. So you cannot just loop the small bit, you know that. So you take a 30 seconds 40 seconds continuous ambience, then you loop it and make it a continuous loop and if you have a continuous ambience for the entire scene you ll lay that. Q: is that ambience placed in mono? 12

13 A: no, that s also stereo. Sometimes when I record a room tone after a shot or something I try to record a room tone for all the scenes. Even though if it s interior or exterior, I ll record ambience and room tone for each and every scene, irrespective of whether we shot here yesterday or today. So if shooting here I try to record one ambience for that scene. Because sometimes you know someday - some construction or something is happening. So the sound maybe is different than the other days. So it s always better that if you re shooting a scene today just record the room tone of that day only. So that I record one with the boom and I use a stereo also. So the boom basically we keep it in the center, for the center track where your dialogue is also in the boom, so you ve to layer like continuous center track ambience for the center speaker, and then you have a stereo that you lay for the left n right speakers. Q: and for surround? A: in surround you lay and make. Because on the dialogue editing stages you don t really put for a surround ambience. Basically for surround ambience, the effects editor whoever is doing the ambience, most of the time different people are doing different jobs. Like one dialogue editor will do the dialogue edit and may be one guy who s laying the effects and the ambience he ll be doing the ambience track. But he ll also you use some of the ambiences which we recorded on the location. Because he has also access to that file, whatever ambiences I record. But that will be one layer because he has to create the ambience using different layers. So maybe he has to take from some other library effects and he has to add some elements in the ambience. Because you want to get a character move for a space and he may add some elements in that. So he ll put some elements in surround. So basically surround ambience is laid by the guy who is doing the effects and the ambience. We do for the left, right and the center. Basically to get a continuity of the ambience, when you watch a scene you shouldn t feel that jerk in the ambience from one shot to another. Q: but you said you also record ambience outside of the shoot, right? A: yeah. Usually I keep a day for ambience recording. Q: where do those ambiences go? A: we all have the access. The dialogue editor will also have the access for the folder. And the effects editor who is doing the ambience, he ll also get the same thing. So both of them will have the access. This guy basically puts, whatever ambience is in that daily folder, which I recorded, he ll use it for the dialogue edit. The other guy basically goes through the ambience we recorded extra. Q: when the effects and ambience tracks are done by this guy, 13

14 A: hm, Q: all the tracks are done, do they go to the sound mixer? A: sound mixer, yeah. Q: and he decides which track to keep and how to route it, right? A: yeah. Maybe what happens sometimes like we record a camera perspective and we record a stereo boom track. So maybe there are some situations where you feel that somebody is walking and she is wearing a lot of jewellery. So we feel like that is fourdirectional, you can feel that it s coming from her left. So then he ll adjust the width of the ambience so that it won t disturb you from the scene also, it won t disturb you from the dialogues. All that things are taken care by the mixing engineer. Because that is the space exactly you hear all the final tracks. Like, the dialogue s final edit and your ambience with your music, BGM. Because even though you have a reference to all that, maybe you have a stereo track, all the open tracks comes to the mixing engineer. Q: how much spatial information do you think of keeping in an indoor sequence, say for example, in this apartment? A: hm, Q: you are recording dialogue. Will you prefer to have not only this room tone as the ambience but also the reflections that s already there? Will you prefer to record that reflection? A: yeah. That s why I am saying that s basically the use of stereo mics. This room has a reflection but that reflection you may get it in the boom only. Suppose you have a big space, like a big hall or something. So you need to have like a more reflection to give the space like it s a big space. You know then you need to have a more reverb and if you record only with one boom you don t have the freedom to increase and decrease the reverb only. So basically if you have another mic or a stereo mic or something which you basically keep for the reverb. Maybe from the camera axis, not on dialogue, you keep a little away from the character. So you get all the reflection and everything. So then you have the freedom in the post. If you want to increase and decrease. Supposedly in one scene in Dedh Ishqiya I did, it was a scene where one character, Naseeruddin Shah was outside the door and Madhuri dixit was inside the room. And Madhuri Dixit is not seeing anything. She s just standing and she s crying there. So then what I did is I kept a boom inside the room, I kept a boom outside for Naseeruddin Shah s dialogue and then I kept a boom inside the house. Even though the door was closed I kept a boom inside the room. It s like a big Haveli (palace) - it s like high roofs and it s a lot of reverb. Then during the post what we did, we didn t use much of artificial reverbs. What we did, we 14

15 basically added balance between the outside-boom. You cannot keep only the insideboom because you won t be able to understand what he s saying. So we did a balancing of the outside boom and inside boom and without adding any external reverb we got a very nice reverb with these two booms only. So sometimes I try to capture like these things from the camera perspective, even though the characters are outside. Because usually what people do is that if the character is outside and the camera is inside they keep only one boom outside. Because they say the dialogue is outside. But what we try to do is we keep one boom inside also. So we had the freedom to get a natural reverb of that space. Q: Were these practices not used before? From what I hear, it sounds very nice; but in earlier films we don t hear these room tones. A: yeah. Q: we don t hear the room perspectives; we don t hear the room reverberations, never. Not even in 1990 s, late 90 s or early 90 s films. The first room tone we hear in commercial cinema is in Dil Chahta Hai. A: ok, I know. Q: in Dil Chahta Hi we hear room tone for the first time. We were never even aware that room tones can be recorded and used in cinema. This is now the usual practice the way it works. A: yeah. Now I think people want more of that natural sounding dialogues. You know if you do a sync sound film I don t think it should sound like a dubbed film. For that you need to have this room feel. Because every space every room has a different sound, it s not the same. So that s why you re doing your sync sound. Otherwise if every room or every space sounds the same then there is no point doing a sync sound. Then it s only for the performance. Because when you do a sync sound then you need to capture all reververations of the room, that space. But sometimes the reverberation can be disturbing. A: yeah. Then we need to try and reduce that also. That call you have to take; whether it is disturbing your dialogue very much, or it is not. So then you need to use carpets and stuff to reduce the reflections. Q: and a sound designer then has access to all the tracks you ve recorded including edited dialogue, right? A: yeah. Q: do you keep the stereo ambience in the center? A: yeah. 15

16 Q: do you record other ambience tracks beyond shooting? A: yeah. Q: the effects, which were recorded daily/maybe during the shoot, are also organized I guess. Do you also then record some Foley? A: yes. And maybe supposedly we shot the film and we edited the film and we are in the sound stage, then also you need some more effects for sound design. You know you feel like you need to record some more effects then we need to go again while the film s sound post-production is happening then also if we go and record some more sound effects which we feel like that, we need here some more. That stage also you have to go and record some sound. But that time you know what exactly you want, because you ve seen the edit and then you re going. So what we like, this is the edit and we make a note like exactly what we want to fill that place. So when go and record that particular sounds. Q: why do you need Foley? A: because one thing is that you need to have a balance between the dialogue and the Foley, if it s recording on location first of all it s not a very silent room, so that soft sounds if you boost more than a point all the noises start coming. And the second thing is that they want an international track. Q: what does that mean? A: they want an international track in the sense they want a track without the dialogue and all other things. Q: ok. A: if you want to dub the film in some other language so then but still what we do is - while we do the dialogue edit we have three or four tracks on the timeline, which are for the production Foley, production sound effects. So suppose if footstep, incidental sounds like keeping the glass or whatever sounds, what we do is we usually don t put with the dialogue tracks. From the dialogue track you cut that and put it into different tracks. Because for a mixing engineer one needs to have it in a different fader. Because when you take these international tracks, music and effects tracks, then if you put in the dialogue track then all the Foleys get muted. Q: yeah. A: so then you need to put it in different tracks, but there ll be production Foley tracks. So then during the mixing or the pre-mixing, usually pre-mixing, we need to match the production foley with the Foley, which you did. And get a good sound. Because otherwise the sound will double and all. Because little difference in two sounds, and you ll hear two 16

17 sounds. Suppose a footstep you do a foley also n you have a production track also. But if there is a time difference between these two sounds then there ll be a double, like two footsteps. Q: a bit of delay. A: yeah. So you need to match this production Foley with the Foley you have recorded. Sometimes it helps you. Like you have the production Foley and you need to have one Foley, you have to balance between these two and get a good sound. Q: are there instances of using only production Foley but no studio Foley? A: yeah. I don t remember the film. Some film I did which had light footsteps on wooden stairs. But in the foley we did, we didn t like it because we were hearing the production Foley. So then finally we muted the Foley, which we did in the studio and we kept the location Foley only. There are a lot of places we do like that. If we have a good location recording of effects then we keep that only. Whether it is footsteps or incidental sounds, we keep that. If we feel that we need a bit more then we add the recorder Foley. Q: does the sound designer then decide how much to keep volume-wise, and also which channels to send in? A: yeah. Q: which channels to send in terms of ambience, because stereo ambience cannot be sent in the rear channels, right? A: yeah, you can pan that also. Like if you have a different layer of stereo ambience you can assign only into the surrounds also. Q: I was watching and listening to Highway, A: hm, Q: and I felt that most of the ambience stays in front of me, just little bit like this degrees to 140 degrees in front of me, not 180 degrees. A: yeah. Q: sometimes in some very outdoor sequences some elements are coming in 180 degree, not even 360 degree. A: ok. Q: do you think that this is the usual practice or people keep something in the 360 degrees space? A: they keep some ambiences in suppose you have a dream sequence. You need to have different layers of sound. So you need to keep different layers, like maybe water dripping, you need to have rain sounds, you need to have thunder sound. So then what they usually do is like, what we do is like we keep different layers in different position. 17

18 But always the prominence will be from the front. So you can t hear that separate. But it s there. It adds to the sound of that thing but you cannot differentiate like this is coming from there. But if you remove that you will feel the absence. So it s adding to that entire thing but you prominently are hearing from the front. But it s always there. For each n every scene there are ambience, which are coming from rear, which are coming from side. But it s not very prominent that you can differentiate that this is coming from right speaker because you re always hearing the prominent thing from the front. But if you mute this surround ambience you feel that something is gone. Q: so it s an expanded kind of ambience, right? A: yeah. It s not only one layer. Because you add different layers and create one ambience. So people will put some layers in surround and then pan it a bit to surround. But always prominent ambiences will come from the front. Q: voice and dialogue are always in the center, no? A: center. But sometimes you pan a little bit. Q: within the stereo? A: yes, within the stereo. Sometimes they put a bit in the surround. But not in the rear n all, a bit to the left surround or right surround. But not much. Q: in the second part of Gangs of Wasseypur the panning is very elaborate, like lots of panning. A: ok. I saw the stereo only. So I don t know. I saw it on stereo speakers here only. Q: the film, which is intended for surround, I think it s better to watch it in surround. A: Gangs of Wasseypur? Q: yeah, both the films, also Highway, I wanted to watch it in Surround. A: I saw Highway in the theater. Q: did you like the film? A: yeah. I like the sound also. The ambiences were nice. Some of the ambiences were nice. Q: he has used different kinds of elements for different places. A: yeah. Q: like a peacock is chirping in Rajasthan but when you cross Rajasthan there is no sound of peacock - that kind of element. A: yeah, because in different places you hear different ambience. 18

19 Anup Deb (2014) Duration: 1:14:15 Name abbreviations: Anup Deb A, Budhaditya Chattopadhyay Q Other Abbreviations: Laughter - LG A: I think I have worked on magnetic for atleast 10 years and also in digital for almost seven eight years. If you ask me the quality part I think magnetic has got a better warmth compared to digital but the digital has got the facility like, you know, say in the digital you are working on a workstation and it is very convenient to edit it, make a copy, and you can transfer the file also, you need not to carry, even you are carrying it is a small maybe dvd or maybe a drive, whereas tape will be thousand feet tape, and one reel means there ll be so many tracks, so physically carrying it is a minus point but it has got the better quality as far as the quality is concerned. Q: ok. A: Digital is convenient as far as the format, you can carry it easily, and you can edit it, rest of the other things. But still I would prefer to have that warmth which I heard in the magnetic, you know. Q: in a mixing desk you now work with a digital mixer, right? A: yeah, Q: is the platform comfortable to work with? Does it give a sense of flexibility than the pervious analogue mixer? A: the flexibility is definitely now-a-days with the digital console, it is more flexible, you can have n number of inputs in the console, whereas in magnetic has got some sort of a limitation you know, like specially in Bollywood you know you can t have more than 6 to 8 transport you know where each transport will carry only one track. Of course in Hollywood I have seen, they are having, you know, twenty thirty transport you know, but still working on the digital console with the workstation is, you can run two-hundred tracks, three-hundred tracks, and if your console it is a full-fledged professional console you can have n number of tracks you know. And it is very easy to work, all the things are very easily accessible, because of the digital console you can shift your channels, you know, suppose it is a big console you know hundred faders console you need not to go to the extreme end physically, you can call those faders in front of you or if it is a four layers console you can get access to any layers. There is no doubt about it that digital 19

20 has changed a lot you know, as far as the working convenience is concerned, there is no doubt. Q: does that number of channels give better quality of work? A: the thing is that you should know, you have the facility doesn t mean that you have to have a hundred tracks. It all depends on how you can visualize your sound, how you are laying your sound. I have seen people who for one sound they will put ten tracks. Whereas, sometimes you don t need to lay ten tracks for one sound. May be you want to show the producer that you know that you have made so many tracks LG. But most of the time I have seen you know I had to close down lot of things, which is not needed. Putting too many layers also makes the thing messy. Q: messy. A: it has to be very clean sound. A: if you can get it with the three tracks why one needs ten tracks. So it depends on how you are designing the sound, whether that many tracks were/are needed or not. Q: but in digital technology also you don t see it anyway it s invisible, whereas in magnetic analogue era you could touch the tapes - does this make any difference? A: no I don t think so. Q: yeah. A: Because (with) the digital you can see the waveform which is again very very convenient, you can judge the loudness of the sound you know, that this sound is very loud by just seeing the waveform, that the sound is source is weak or not, which is a big advantage. Q: but if you think of looking back at the times of magnetic media that you have worked with, what do you miss? At this moment what do you miss about magnetic media other than the warmth? A: I don t think other than the warmth, the quality I miss much. Q: does digital technology give better qualities, for instance the dynamic range, signal to noise ratio and stuff like that? A: yeah that is there, Q: Head room? A: yeah Head Room is there and the signal to noise ratio is also good. And moreover it gives you more flexibility, which is a biggest plus point you know. Q: does this sense of flexibility offer a new kind of aesthetics, a new kind of working approach, and new kinds of method? 20

21 A: yeah you can improve your approach you know, earlier may be it was a limitation because of the less number of tracks, but here, like you know I ll give you an example, earlier we used to do these effect premixes you know, used to do the hard record, like footsteps, Foley, some major sound like car sound or action, so we used to premix, and then go for a mix. Here the advantage is you do premix, but if you want you can keep the things separate, you need not to hard record it. So in the final mix, you can take a final call whether that particular sound, if you want to avoid you can avoid. So it is more flexible. It improves the aesthetics also, like one song is on and maybe you know at one place you want to keep one sound which is not clashing with the music, but in the other place it is clashing and you don t want to keep that sound. So that advantage is there with this digital format. So your aesthetic, your point of view, till the end of the final mix, you can have that option. It is not that now you can t do anything. Q: ok. So you have choice of undoing it, right? A: yes, undoing it. Q: does it reflect on the kinds of work that are now produced in comparison to earlier works, for instance in the 70 s or 80 s? A: yeah, I think that since you have an option till the end you can make a choice. You can make a choice whether you want to go with this or you want to go with the other thing, you know you have more options. And at the end of the day, at the end of the mix you can see which option is working which is not, and you can change your ideas, which improves the complete aesthetic of your work. Q: and then there are a number of channels, which also come with digital technology - digital formats, right? A: yeah. Q: these channels - do they serve a major purpose in the work? A: you are talking about the channels in the console or channels in the workstation? Q: in the workstation. A: yeah you re more flexible with more number of channels. Like you know sometimes what happens you can edit your soundtrack according to the shots. A: suppose it s an extreme long shot, then it comes to close, then extreme close, so you can cut your track and rather than putting in one track you can have more tracks and shot wise you can cut the sound and put it you know. A: so that may be sometimes you know it comes and goes on its own. 21

22 Q: ok. A: you just set according to the shot the level of the sound, and it comes and goes. You need not to bother once you set that. But in the channels for the final mix, instead of stereo or mono, you have 5.1 and 7.1, A: yeah. Q: even more channels in the formats like Atmos? Does this adding of channels in the final mix give you? A: it s more flexible you know. That is my point of view because if you give me ten channels I ll stick to that, you know, I will be restricted. Like, you know, certain things I want to keep separate and I want to take a final call during the final mix. May be with the music the sound is not going to work. Sometimes you know certain sound may gel with the flute. Or may gel with the strings when it is solo, when it is like playing an orchestra that same sound may not work. It becomes clumsy. So that option I have, you know. So that suppose I am writing my final music and things are separate I can take a call whether like ya know the car constant is working or not. May be you know, I see, may be certain phrases of the music, I can keep that. And latter portion I may take out you know, it s not working. So that way you get more flexibility to how to use the sound, sound effects, along with the music or along with the songs. So if you have more channels things are all separate and you take a call during the final mix. Q: when sending the different effects and music tracks, for example the instruments, besides the voice and ambience in different channels first in the two sides of the L and R, then in the centre, the rear and the behind - does this expanded space give you some sort of new kind of aesthetics? Does it force you to change your routing and your diffusion of sounds? A: see the normal procedure - normally when you re doing the premixes and all, according to the visual you do the premixes. A: ok? How broad you want to keep, especially the ambiences and all. How the Foley should be you know mostly in the front. So once in the premix if you visualize the thing, if you match your visual and the sound, the placement of sound is perfect, A: that means your premixing has been done. But still your sounds are all independent. 22

23 A: if you want to increase the night cricket you can increase it! You want to decrease the night cricket but your distribution doesn t change. Q: ok. A: if you want to you can because your sources are all independent. Q: independent. And separate, it s not mixed. A: it s not mixed. So at any stage any combination you want you can have. You can change it. That is only possible when you ve got more number of tracks in the workstation and as well as at the console also you should have more number of faders you know, so that you can keep things separate and take a final call. You know sometimes what happens you have done the final mix. But when you re watching it you may feel that you know things can be tweaked down. So unless your source is separate you cannot tweak down. Q: do you work a lot with ambience? A: yeah. Q: how do you use ambience? And why do you use it? A: see again you cannot always go beyond the visuals. You re often restricted to the visuals (on the screen). A: whatever you do, you have to see whether it s working with the visual or not, first thing. And second thing is what kind of background you have. A: what kind of instrument music director has used, A: ok? So your ambience is depending on whether the music is there or it is not there. Q: ok. A: if it is there, what instrument it is playing? A: you know, it is a very rich music or very light music or single instrument. So whole thing is depending on the background. Q: background. A: what kind of instrument he has used. Sometimes what happens, may be background is not working ya know. So sometimes you remove the background and go with the effects, go with the ambience. It all depends on what sound is required in that scene. And mainly see again it depends on person to person, you know. 23