P R O C E E D I N G S ; and the accompanying case on bond is Both sides ready to proceed? MS. TURNER: State's ready.

Transcription

1 0 P R O C E E D I N G S THE COURT: This is Cause No., ; and the accompanying case on bond is. Both sides ready to proceed? MR. LEWIS: We are ready, Your Honor. MS. TURNER: State's ready. THE COURT: Folks in the audience, if you want to talk to your lawyer or your neighbor, have that conversation out in the hallway. All right. What says Defense? MR. LEWIS: I believe that -- MR. BLIZZARD: Bryan Vaclavek as a witness, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Good morning, sir. 0 MR. BLIZZARD: Good morning, sir. (Witness sworn.) THE COURT: Feel free to adjust the chair and microphone and answer as directly as you can. You may proceed. BRYAN VACLAVIK, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BLIZZARD: Q. Please state your name for the record. A. My name is Bryan Vaclavik, last name V as in ()-

2 "Victor," A-C-L-A, V as in "Victor," I-K. Q. How are you employed? A. I'm an independent consultant related to white collar fraud and property investigations. 0 0 Q. Give the idea -- give the Judge an idea of what your duties are. A. I worked for the District Attorney's Office here in Harris County for the first years in my career, mostly in the white collar fraud section doing cases related to significant amounts of money, lots of paperwork to ascertain if there was a crime committed, first and foremost, and what restitution may be made and to testify as an expert witness. Q. In what field do you testify in as an expert witness? A. In white collar-related crimes. Q. And how many years have you been doing that? A. years. Q. How many times have you testified as an expert? A. 0, 00 times. Q. How many investigations -- white collar investigations have you been involved in? A. 00, 00. Q. Are you a certified fraud examiner? A. Yes, sir. ()-

3 0 0 Q. What is that? A. That is a certification related to individuals who have background in law enforcement, financial analysis, fraud detection and loss prevention. Q. How long have you been a certified fraud examiner? A. Over a decade. Q. Have you had any other kind of educational background to assist you in your work? A. Yes. I have a BS in finance from the University of Houston as well as a master's in business administration. Q. Do you keep up to date on various new developments in your field? A. Yes. Q. How do you do that? A. Reading the newspaper, looking at financial magazines, anything related to, you know, economic losses and prevention and fraud detection. Q. Do you also attend classes from time to time? A. Yes, I have to, as part of my certification, keep at least 0 hours a year in continuing education. Q. Did you happen to become involved in a investigation concerning a Dwayne Jordon? A. Yes, sir. ()-

4 0 0 Q. When did you become involved in that investigation? A. Late last year. Q. How did you become involved in it? A. You and Mr. Lewis asked me to look at the records and the file. Q. Did you do that? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you initially approach the problems that we're presented with today? A. After, initially, a consultation with you, I contacted the Harris County D. A.'s Office and started looking at the file. Q. How did you do that? A. I called Ms. Turner and asked her if I could come by and look at the boxes related to the case. Q. How many boxes are involved? A. I looked at three or four. Q. Okay. Did you do anything else? A. I interviewed a couple of the individuals that would pertain to the extraneouses. Q. Did you meet with Mr. Jordon? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you meet with his staff? A. Yes, sir. ()-

5 0 times. Q. About how many times did you meet with them? A. I met with Mr. Jordon at least seven or eight 0 0 Q. Did you have an opportunity to go through their records? A. Yes. Q. Were you given free rein to go in and examine his records? A. As well as the D. A.'s office records, yes. MR. BLIZZARD: May I approach the witness, Judge? THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Let me show you what's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit. Can you identify that? A. Yes. Q. And what is it? A. It is a summary of the addresses in question related to the indictment. Q. Okay. A. Or documents. Q. And how was this developed? A. This was developed, along with Ms. Stephanie Mendoza, related to the properties that were in question and the pleadings that were related to the theft of real estate. ()-

6 Q. In doing this, did you review what's been introduced as Defendant's Exhibit No.? A. I'd have to see what Defendant's Exhibit No. is. MR. BLIZZARD: Sorry, Judge. THE COURT: That's all right. I believe MR. BLIZZARD: It's the big envelope. THE COURT: And Ms. Capetillo has the other exhibits. MR. BLIZZARD: Thank you, Judge. THE COURT: You're welcome. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Let me put in front of you what's been introduced into evidence as Defendant's Exhibit No., and I'll ask if that's part of the documentation you reviewed in creating Defendant's Exhibit No.. A. Yes. Q. Did you relay the information on the Defendant's Exhibit No. accurately and truly? A. Yes. Q. Is it a summary of voluminous records? A. It is. MR. BLIZZARD: The State would offer into evidence Defendant's Exhibit and tender to opposing ()-

7 counsel. MS. TURNER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Defense is admitted. 0 0 (Defendant's Exhibit No. admitted.) MR. BLIZZARD: Your Honor, I think it might be -- may I have permission to publish this? THE COURT: You may. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the -- is Deputy Johnson around? He's our technical guy. MR. BLIZZARD: Well, let me try to do it this way, Judge. THE COURT: The constable is somewhat familiar with that. (Technical difficulties.) MS. TURNER: Your Honor, may I approach? THE COURT: Sure. MS. TURNER: This is an exhibit list I've given to opposing counsel. THE COURT: Thank you. (Short pause.) Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Mr. Slavonic, is this what's been introduced into evidence as Defendant's Exhibit? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. I'm going to kind of move across this ()-

8 0 0 document so we can describe it to the judge. What is the first column? A. That is the property in reference related to the indictments under one of the two numbers that were part of the -- of the case. Q. Okay. And do they correspond with those exhibits in Defense Exhibit No.? A. Yes. Q. What is the next column? A. The property tax that needed to be paid to bring those properties current during that time when Mr. Jordon was building the properties up. Q. What is the next column? A. The city liens that were on that property. Q. What is a city lien; like what might that be? A. Some type of back taxes, assessments by the governing agencies. Q. What is the next column? A. That relates to the company that was -- I believe had to process the tax payment. Q. And then the next column? A. That relates to the tax attorneys related to assessing the tax. Q. And the next? A. Just the fees. Those one, two, three, four, ()-

9 0 0 five are just the various fees that were associated with bringing the properties current so the buildings could permit and the houses ended up being sold in those instances where there is the dollar figures. Q. Okay. And then there is this column, the final column, Neighborhood Protection. What is that? A. I'm really unfamiliar with that. It was just one of the expenses that were related to that particular property. Q. Okay. And then the next column? A. That is just the total for the amount associated with each property to bring current. Q. Okay. So that would be a total, correct? A. That is correct. Q. And then the last column? A. Those were the property values assessed by the Harris County Appraisal District during that time frame when those deeds were supposedly -- I shouldn't say "supposedly." Those deeds were forged. Q. And the second page of this just goes on to list the other properties, correct? A. Related to the other indictment. Q. Okay. And it's a similar construction, correct? A. That is correct. ()-

10 Q. Let's kind of look at it for a minute, total amounts. I see that there is an amount, $,.? A. Yes, sir. Q. What does that refer to? A. That represents the amount of money that 0 0 Mr. Jordon was out in bringing those properties current. Q. Okay. And that relates to the first cause number,? A. It's either or. Yes. That one, yes. Q. Okay. And then down here we have another figure at the property value. It's $,00. What does that regard? A. That represents the value of all those properties pertaining to that indictment number, the appraised value for those properties at the time that those deeds were forged. THE COURT: Now the appraised value, is that HA -- THE WITNESS: That's HCAD, yes, sir. THE COURT: HCAD, whatever it is. THE WITNESS: Harris County Appraisal District, yes, sir. THE COURT: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) And tell the Judge how it is that you got that appraisal figure for that real estate. ()-

11 0 A. Those are from the documents related -- from HCAD. Q. And are those documents also in what's been introduced Defendant's Exhibit No. for each one of those properties? A. I don't know specifically those, but I did research related to those particular properties. Q. Okay. And for the amount here for Cause No., is that a similar construction? A. Yes. 0 Q. And the Judge here can see the final tallies at the bottom right corner, correct? A. That is correct. What's different about that particular exhibit is the fact that one relates to Mr. Radley; and since they're co-defendants in that particular indictment, then it was only fair to divide it by two since both of those individuals are responsible for that particular amount. Q. And what would be the total amount of that if divided by two? A. $,0. Q. Okay. And does that account for any of the expenses? A. That does not account for any expenses. That's just half of the property value for that particular ()-

12 indictment. If you take that from the amount of money that Mr. Jordon spent on those properties, technically Mr. Jordon is owed $,000 at that time. THE COURT: Is that what that red figure is? A. Yes, sir, that's exactly right. 0 0 And if you take the other $,000 from the other indictment, you're roughly looking at $,000 in overpayments to bring those properties up to code and to pay all the back taxes so that the properties could be sold later on after Mr. Jordon built the houses on those properties at his own expense. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) So Mr. Jordon was purchasing low-income area housing, correct? A. I don't know if he was purchasing low-income housing. He was building property -- he was building residences on those properties once the deeds were forged. MR. BLIZZARD: I'm sorry, Judge, one quick question. THE COURT: Well, let me ask you one question about your last answer. He was building houses on the properties once the deeds were forged. You say those properties. Properties in both cause number or properties in the ()-

13 second cause number? 0 0 THE WITNESS: Both of those cause numbers. You'll see -- I believe that Ms. Turner has a spreadsheet related to what she says is the title company's exposure, and that's related to those residences that were built and subsequently sold to individuals that didn't know that the deeds -- the deeds were forged. THE COURT: Okay. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) There are some properties here where we indicate there's missing documents. Can you explain that to the Judge? A. Yes, after looking at Mr. Jordon's business location, those particular files were not found. Now there are -- there are columns and rows that have no numbers in them because Mr. Jordon had nothing to do with that from what we can understand pertaining to those properties. THE COURT: Right now Ms. Green is cause number what? Can't see the top. THE WITNESS: That might be six. Yeah, five, six. THE COURT: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Okay. So again just so I understand, when there's no -- when there is nothing in ()-

14 0 the column, coming across, for example, this Elwood address -- Elmwood address, you couldn't find any connection? A. Could not find any documentation related to Mr. Jordon purchasing or building a home on that location. Q. What is the concept of -- do you -- are you aware -- have you worked very many real estate-related fraud cases? A. A couple related to mortgage fraud, yes. Q. What is the concept of opening a title? A. That's when someone is about to purchase a 0 home, so they have to have it -- run it through a title company that does the research related to the title. And that's usually where the closings -- where the seller and the purchaser meet to sign all the documentation and then the exchange of the funds. Q. Did you try to do an analysis in this case of restitution? A. Yes. Q. Can you explain how you approached that problem to the Judge? A. That was what you would -- what you saw on those two -- that Exhibit, Defense Exhibit. If at the time that the deed was forged, then the value of the ()-

15 0 0 0 property at that time should be considered substantially versus a situation where you're looking forward down the years to see if the property sells, you know what it's going to sell at, the economic impact during the time. Let's say the housing market which went bust. So if the title company is on the hook for possibly, you know, a million five, well, all the properties have gone down since, you know, '0. So what is the real figure? The only way you could really look at the real figure is if you take it at the day or the year as when the deed was forged and look at the property at that time, where in this case I believe maybe one or two had some type of structure, but other than that it was just property. Q. Did you -- MR. BLIZZARD: Excuse me, Judge, may I have a moment, please? THE COURT: You may. MR. BLIZZARD: I'm sorry, Judge. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Did you happen to conduct an investigation into some of the extraneous offenses? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Did you, in fact, meet with a couple of the complaining witnesses in those extraneous offenses? A. Yes, sir. ()-

16 Q. Did you meet with a Mrs. Thibo? A. Yes, sir. Q. Explain to the Judge how it is that you met with her. A. I met her, first time, at J. P. Court related to her business conflict with Mr. Jordon where she believed that she was stolen from by $00 and a tax 0 0 credit of $,000 that the IRS would have given her as a credit had she bought a home in a particular period of time. So that's the first time I met Ms. Thibo. MR. BLIZZARD: May I approach the witness, Judge? THE COURT: You may. (Defendant's Exhibit No. marked.) Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Let me show you what's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit. Can you identify that? A. Yes, it is a small claims petition that I received from Mr. Jordon the day that the court date was set and when Ms. Thibo and Mr. Jordon were at the J. P. Court in Precinct, I believe. Q. Is it a government record? A. Yes. Q. Is it under seal? A. Yes. MR. BLIZZARD: Sir, we would offer into ()-

17 evidence Defendant's Exhibit, tender to opposing counsel. MS. TURNER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Defense is admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No. admitted.) Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Can you describe No. for us? 0 0 A. It's just a document that relates to the claim against Mr. Jordon. Q. Okay. And is it a small claims document? A. Yes. Q. It's a petition? A. Yes. Q. And what does it indicate what Ms. Thibo is interested in? A. It just gives a few facts of what she is interested in trying to get from Mr. Jordon. And, in fact, it says: There is no counterclaim. Plaintiff only wants to reimburse $00, which was not submitted towards earnest money. And that one related to the house that Mr. Jordon built for Ms. Thibo. Q. Did you go to court on this case -- A. Yes, sir. Q. -- Ms. Thibo's case? ()-

18 Do you know generally when you went to 0 0 Court? A. I do not remember. Q. Who was there? A. Mr. Jordon, his real estate attorney, Ms. Thibo, myself and various other individuals related to, I guess, other petitions or other claims. Q. Did the case get resolved? A. Yes. Q. How did it get resolved? A. Mr. Jordon paid Ms. Thibo, I believe 00, $0. Q. And why was that? A. To bring into the particular claim. Q. Did you have subsequent conversations with Ms. Thibo? A. Yes, I met Ms. Thibo again after that fact. MS. TURNER: Judge, I would object to any hearsay. MR. BLIZZARD: Judge -- THE COURT: That question, this answer is fine; but you want to ask something calling for hearsay, ask the question so she can make the objection appropriately. MR. BLIZZARD: I apologize to the Court. I'm not trying to try your patience, but all through ()-

19 this hearing the prosecution has been saying that 0 0 hearsay is available. I didn't -- and so now she takes the position that hearsay is now invalid. So I don't know -- it's like the same moving target, Judge, that we've been trying to hit. We never get a consistent picture. THE COURT: Well, here is the deal. There is no objection on the table so I'm not going to get into this. So ask your question, make your objection; I'll make my ruling, and we'll go forward. MR. BLIZZARD: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: You're welcome. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Without saying what anybody said, what is -- what was your understanding of the conversation, what was it about concerning you and Ms. Thibo, the subsequent conversation you had? A. Ms. Thibo was satisfied with the outcome of the small claims court. Q. Does she want to have anything to do with this hearing we're having here today? A. She specifically -- MS. TURNER: Judge, I'd object to any hearsay. THE COURT: Well, unless you know from personal knowledge, that's sustained. She's not here or ()-

20 if she is here, all of that remains to be seen; but right now that's a hearsay conversation. MR. BLIZZARD: Thank you, Judge. May I approach the witness? THE COURT: You may. MR. LEWIS: Ask him if he's seen her here 0 0 today. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Is Ms. Thibo here today? A. I haven't seen her. Q. Did you see her here yesterday? A. No, sir. (Defendant's Exhibit Nos.,, marked.) MR. BLIZZARD: May I approach the witness, Judge? THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) Mr. Vaclavik, let me show you what's been marked now as Defendant's Exhibits,,, and 0. Do you recognize those documents? A. I believe I saw these a little earlier, yes. Q. Okay. And what are they? A. They are in -- a receipt of a cashier's check and several money order receipts. Q. And who are those to? A. The first one -- the cashier's check is made payable to Shanette Williams (sic), and the various ()-

21 money orders have Nanette Cornish's name on them. 0 Q. Has the defendant in this case been making any kind of efforts towards restitution? A. Substantial efforts. MR. BLIZZARD: The State (sic) would offer into evidence Defendant's Exhibit through 0. Tender to opposing counsel. MS. TURNER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Defendant's through 0 are admitted. (Defendant's Exhibit No.,,, and 0 admitted.) Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) Let me reference you back to Defendant's Exhibit. Who is that to? 0 A. Shanette Smith in the amount of $0,000, and it says, Memo, Brinkley project paid in full, J. B. -- I mean J. Homes -- J. Home Builders. Q. Okay. And does that appear to be signed? A. Yes. Q. And then the other exhibits we referenced, through 0. Can you describe those to the Judge? A. These are just receipts of money orders and they have Nanette Cornish's or a reference of Nanette Cornish's name on them. Q. And is that one of the complaints in the ()-

22 extraneous offenses? A. Yes, sir. Q. I'm going to ask some more questions of you, Mr. Vaclavik, concerning willingness to make restitution. A. Yes, sir. 0 0 Q. Let me show you Defendant's Exhibits and. I'll ask if you can identify those? A. Yes, sir. Q. What are they? A. These are general warranty deeds pertaining to two of the properties that the Harris County District Attorney's Office asked Mr. Jordon to sign back over to the initial or the original owners. Q. When he was asked to sign property back over to original owners, what did he do? A. He signed them back over. Ms. Turner asked me and said if he really wants to pay the money back and make restitution, why didn't he do these two properties. I said, okay, well, then we'll talk to him about that and get that taken care of, which was done. Q. And, again, are these under seal? A. Yes. Q. Are they government records? Are these government records under seal, sir? ()-

23 A. Yes, sir. 0 MR. BLIZZARD: The State would offer into evidence Defendant's Exhibits and. THE COURT: All right. MS. TURNER: No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Admitted, and. (Defendant's Exhibit Nos. and admitted.) MR. BLIZZARD: May I have just a moment please, Judge? THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MR. BLIZZARD) I'm going to reference back to Defendant's Exhibit. A. Yes. Do you recall that exhibit? 0 Q. It would indicate that Mr. Jordon paid good money for all these properties? A. Yes. Q. Wouldn't it? A. Paid the taxes and every other fee associated with them, yes. Q. The money spent on the real estate and the money spent to take care of the various loans, were they incorporated into any of the documentations shown to the judge concerning restitution? A. No. ()-

24 0 Q. He was not given any credit for any of that, was he? A. No, sir. Q. And he also paid money to Mr. Radley, the co-defendant in this case. Isn't that true? A. I saw some payments, yes. Q. Was he given credit for any of that? A. No, sir. MR. BLIZZARD: Pass the witness. THE COURT: All right. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. TURNER: Q. Mr. Vaclavik, how are you doing? A. Fine. Q. You and I know each other, do we not? A. Yes, for many years. Q. We've worked together? A. Yes. 0 Q. The chart that you've created today -- and I'm sorry, I don't remember the defense exhibit number. MS. TURNER: May I see that, please? A.. Defense Exhibit. THE COURT: It's right here. MS. TURNER: Thank you, Your Honor. Do you have an extra copy for her? ()-

25 0 MR. BLIZZARD: Yes, Judge, I sure do. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) Mr. Vaclavik, the chart that you've created which is labeled Defense Exhibit -- I believe possibly it's the second page. says (sic). A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Do you have it in front of you? A. Yes, ma'am. The cause number 0 0 Q. Would you agree with me that the cause number is -- A.. Q. --? So we'll correct that. These charts that you've made for each of the cause number that Mr. Jordon has pled guilty to, your charts on Defense Exhibit do not include every property in the indictment, do they? A. Every property that we're aware of. If there's a missing one, then that's my fault. Q. Okay. THE COURT: Excuse me. For the record I've got the original State's, and I'll change that cause number. MR. LEWIS: Defense, yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: I'm going to change the cause number on this document and put my initials. ()-

26 MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Your Honor. 0 0 Q. (BY MS. TURNER) In our meetings on this case, we met many times, you and I? A. Uh-huh. Yes, ma'am. Q. Sometimes Mr. Blizzard was present; sometimes he wasn't? A. Right. And sometimes you just said, "Here's the boxes, go at it," yes. Q. Okay. And I think you already testified that you basically had free rein to look at all the State's boxes. Is that right? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. And you and I discussed what was in those boxes, right? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. And I offered to walk you down the hallway in considerable protection and show you the location of all the boxes? A. Yes, ma'am. I believe all the boxes were in your office, and I just went in there and took whatever I needed. Q. And some of them were -- but we also talked about the other boxes. Is that correct? A. Other boxes as in more property records, or were we talking about the actual -- ()-

27 Q. Do you recall we talked about the prior investigation of Mr. Jordon that began back in 00? A. The prior investigation? No, I think we just stuck with what we had here. Now, I mean, I was aware of Mr. Jordon's previous run-ins with the law, yes. 0 0 Q. Would you agree with me that your concentration in terms of wanting to look at the boxes was as to financial matters? A. Yes, because I think the issue was restitution, and it's always been the -- it's about the money. Q. But our agreement is that you could look at anything as long as it wasn't work product? A. That is correct, and I think that's the philosophy of the District Attorney's Office in general. Q. And if I understand correctly, the purpose of your charts are to show that the defendant paid property taxes on stolen properties? A. That is correct. Q. These are all properties he's pled guilty to stealing. Is that correct? A. That is correct. That is correct. Sorry. Q. And I guess the purpose of this would be to show that he's paid taxes on properties after he stole them? A. Properties after he stole them, yes, that is ()-

28 correct. Q. Okay. And so your argument would be that he should get credit for having paid property taxes on something that he stole? A. That is correct. Q. In our discussions and when I shared 0 0 spreadsheets with you on this case, has there ever been a time when I've used a value for a property besides the Harris County Appraisal District number or, excuse me, Harris County Appraisal District amount? MR. BLIZZARD: Sorry, Judge, I'm going to object to the relevancy of what figures the prosecution wants to use. THE COURT: Well, you can say an opinion. You don't -- you can say an opinion. It's overruled at this time. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) Have I ever used any other value for the properties besides the HCAD appraised values? A. That I do not know because there are some discrepancies with your particular exhibits that you provided us versus what that particular Exhibit is. I know there's one property in particular on Baer Street where you had $0,000 as the value, and we believe it was $,000. So as far as where your number came from, ()-

29 I don't recall specifically what that was. That might 0 0 have been the value when the house sold. I don't know. MS. TURNER: Okay. And may I approach the witness, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) And you testified previously that you're familiar with Defense Exhibit No.? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And so the property Baer, is that the one we're talking about? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Would you agree with me in all of our discussions that I always told you my value of the properties were HCAD values? A. That is correct. Q. Would you agree with me that I always told you that those HCAD values were at the year that the deeds were first forged on the properties? A. That's probably a conversation we had, yes. Q. Okay. All right. So Baer, which is in Defense Exhibit No. -- looks like there's some HCAD records here. These appear to be HCAD records for Baer from the year 0. Would you agree with me on that? A. Yes, ma'am. ()-

30 Q. Okay. And if the first forged deed on 0 0 Baer was filed prior to 0, the value of the property that I would have listed would be different, would it not? A. Repeat your question. Q. Okay. This HCAD record in reference to Baer lists the property value as of January st, 00 as $,000, does it not? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Okay. And you understand that the offense dates for all the properties in the indictments span from February st, 00 through, I believe, February of 00? A. That I'm not specific, but it's definitely going to be before 0, yes. Q. Would it help you if I showed you my files, the felonies? A. Show me -- yeah. Show me what you're referring to, yes. Q. Okay. I'll just show you this. A '0 to -- Q. And the last date? A. February th, '0. Q. Would you agree with me that all the properties listed in the two indictments for and all ()-

31 occurred between 00 and 00? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And so the HCAD value that you and I discussed during this case would have been the HCAD 0 0 value at the time the first deed was forged on Baer. Is that right? A. Say that again. Q. Okay. A. Sorry. Q. In our discussions when we talked about the properties -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- the property value calculated would have been the HCAD value at the time the first deed was forged? A. That may have been the conversation; but as far as the actual documents, now I'd have to look at what you're saying HCAD versus what we have HCAD. Because I know that on your -- actually on the H.U.D. from this, it says $0,000. Q. And this H.U.D. in here is actually dated -- A. //0. Q. //0? A. Is that or? Yes,. Q. We can agree it's either //0 or //0, ()-

32 right? A. Yes. 0 0 Q. And you calculate $0,000. That says contract sales price, doesn't it? A. Yes. Q. So the contract price that someone purchases a property often will be different than the appraised price, will it not? A. Exactly, which is part of the problem with all the other stuff, yes. Q. And in State's Exhibit No., which is in evidence, and I'm showing you a copy of it, under Baer -- A. It's up here (pointing). Q. -- the property value that I have listed is 0,000? A. That is correct. Q. Would you agree with me that that is in accordance with what you have in your files? A. That is in accordance, but that doesn't mean that that is the value that was of HCAD on that particular day. Q. I would agree with that. A. Okay. Yeah. So if you show me the HCAD documents for when the documents were forged and if it's ()-

33 $0,000, then I would agree with you. Q. But as it stands, the State's value for the property is the same value that the Defense's value for Baer is? A. No. The Defense value is,000-and-something based on the HCAD. Now -- THE COURT: Excuse me. Based on the HCAD 0 0 record, on Baer on the date the deed was forged? THE WITNESS: That is correct. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) And you're not quarreling with the jurisdictional limits of the cases that Mr. Jordon has pled guilty to? One of them it's theft of more than 00,000 and the other one is theft of more than 00,000. You're not quarreling with the jurisdictional limits, are you? A. When you say jurisdictional limits, what do you specifically mean? Q. Well, I mean, you worked at the District Attorney's Office for many years. You understand that a first-degree theft is more than $00,000? A. Uh-huh. Q. And you understand that a second degree is between more than 00,000 and under 00,000? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. And if Mr. Jordon has pled guilty to both of ()-

34 0 0 those, are you quarreling with the jurisdictional limits of those? A. I am not. I am not, not at all. Q. I'm just trying to understand the difference between,000 and 0,000. A. I'm just pointing out the difference in those figures. Because if this all boils down to restitution and the money, then we need to know what the amount is so Mr. Jordon can pay it back. Q. Agreed. When you talked about your conversations with Ms. Thibo -- and I believe you were in the court -- the J. P. Court when that case was concluded. A. Yes, ma'am. Q. When did Mr. Jordon pay Andanishana Thibo? A. I think there was a limitation of within a week or see after that that they need to come to a conclusion because I think they need to be back in court on that day. That specifically I do not know; but after conversations with Ms. Thibo and Mr. Jordon, I believe that that is taken care of. Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that that was during a time period that Mr. Jordon was on bond for these cases? A. Yes, ma'am. Just like when he signed the deeds ()-

35 0 back over, he was on bond during that time too. Q. And you said that you met with Mr. Jordon I think seven or eight times? A. At least, yes, ma'am. Q. Would you say that you're familiar with his signature? 0 0 A. I am not familiar with anything related to his signing or his business other than what I've reviewed. Q. You're not familiar with his handwriting? A. It was never an issue, for what I was asked to do. Q. So in the records you reviewed, it would be your testimony that you didn't see handwriting of Mr. Jordon's? A. I may have saw a handwriting of Mr. Jordon's, but I saw handwriting of countless people looking at the records, your records, Mr. Jordon's records. Q. Did you see the signature of Mr. Jordon anywhere when you reviewed his business records? A. I'm sure I did, especially when it came to the financial records. Q. Okay. A. Because it was -- I believe he was assigned there, and then I think sometimes a female was the signer on some of the accounts. ()-

36 Q. And the two deeds that we talked about that I requested that since they were still in the name of 0 0 Mr. Jordon's entity that if he really wanted to show the Court his willingness to make this right, he could grant them back to the true owners? A. That is correct. Q. Right. And on those deeds, did you get a chance to look at those deeds? A. I did look at them, yes. Q. And I think maybe you were even, in fact, the person who delivered them to me? A. I believe I was, yes. Because after you and I had talked, I went to Mr. Lewis and Mr. Jordon, said, look, you know, here's a way to start alleviating the problem; and that's what we did. Q. And do you recall me telling you that that's not Mr. Jordon's signature on those deeds? A. You did not tell me that. Q. Didn't tell you that? A. Because I just handed them off. We didn't have a conversation related to them after that. Q. Never sent you an in reference to that? A. If you sent -- you sent me many s. Q. We've been busy working, haven't we? A. Yes. So do I remember that specifically? No, ()-

37 0 I do not remember that specifically. Q. Do you know whether that's Mr. Jordon's signature on those two deeds? A. I have no idea if it is or not. But I would doubt that the -- well, I shouldn't say "doubt." I don't believe that the man would just have somebody forge his name on those deeds. Q. That would be a bad idea while you're on bond from a court? A. Well, I mean, if he told somebody to sign his 0 name to them, then he's given effective consent for his name to be signed. So, you know, what are we talking about? If I went to him and I asked him -- sorry if I'm going too fact. If I went to ask him to provide the deeds to sign them back over and he's getting somebody else to sign them, then he's really given effective consent to sign in his name, correct? Q. So you're saying despite the fact that this defendant has pleaded guilty to stealing property using forged deeds that you don't see any problem with him not signing deeds filed at the County Clerk's Office related to properties in the indictment; you don't see any problem with that? A. I think if anyone, if you told me to sign your ()-

38 name and I signed it and I was confident in what I was signing that you wouldn't come back on me, then I believe it's okay. Now I think when there's an issue 0 0 about, "I never gave you consent to sign my name," then I think we're talking about a different ballgame. Q. Okay. Are you familiar with Stephanie Mendoza's handwriting? A. I am not familiar, but I've met with Ms. Mendoza several times. Q. You referenced some receipts in which Extraneous Complainant Smith was repaid some amount by Mr. Jordon? A. Per that receipt, yes, ma'am. Q. I think you testified her name is Shanette. I think you're talk be about Shajuiet. A. Shajuiet, whatever. I mean, I'd spell it for you, yes. Q. Same person? A. Uh-huh. Q. And I think you testified in reference to the Defense Exhibit No., the spreadsheets that you've created, that after these properties were stolen the defendant built houses on them? A. That's my understanding, yes. Q. Would you also agree with me he even sold those ()-

39 houses to unsuspecting buyers? A. I believe that that was an allegation, yes. Q. And those are allegations that the defendant has pled guilty to? A. He pled guilt to stealing the property. I 0 0 don't know about building the houses. That's some type of -- if that's a crime but -- Q. Are you familiar with the complainants listed in the indictment on each property? A. That I have not looked at. I know that the pleading said Exhibit A, but I didn't look specifically at the complainant's list, because I'm more concentrating on the properties themselves and the values that are going to be associated with this when it comes to Mr. Jordon making restitution. Q. So in Exhibit A to the indictments, if there were unsuspecting buyers and true owners listed, you wouldn't be surprised, would you? A. No, I'm not surprised at that at all because those are the effects of the forged deeds. Q. And I believe you testified on your spreadsheets, Defense Exhibit No., that you believe that Mr. Jordon is owed $,.0? A. I believe if you're going to relate to restitution, I believe that number should be considered ()-

40 0 in the restitution amount. Q. Okay. And then I just want a little bit of clarification. On the total property value divided by two, you came up with $,0? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Okay. And I think you testified you divided that because there's a co-defendant? A. That is correct. Mr. Radley. Q. And I'm assuming your position there is that Mr. Radley should also have to pay restitution? 0 A. I believe, yes. If he's a co-defendant and he pled guilty to the same offense, yes, ma'am. Q. Obviously you're familiar with the law of parties, having worked at the District Attorney's Office? A. I mean in general. Q. In your cases previously that you've worked as a fraud examiner, in your analysis and on your spreadsheets, for each defendant would your spreadsheet refer to the total amount stolen and break it up by co-defendant -- dividing by the number of co-defendants, or would it just say total amount stolen? A. It will depend. I mean, the years of learning what each prosecutor wanted, I usually would give them a choice of how they wanted to break it down ()-

41 so at least they would have those numbers so they wouldn't always come back to me saying, hey, can you 0 0 look at this scenario; can you look at this scenario. I would try to give it up to them to decide. It's not for me to decide in the end. Q. Would you agree with me that there were many times when all the restitution owed would be attributed to each defendant? A. That is correct. Q. Okay. And that would be many times, multiple times? A. Yes. Q. Over your years? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. And in terms of giving Mr. Jordon credit for back taxes that he paid for property taxes, for the Court's analysis, what's your position on who should be given that credit? In other words, should we give that credit to Mr. Jordon in reference to the true owners, or should we give it to him in reference to the unsuspecting buyers? A. I think it's going to be the true owners of those properties because everything else after that you're just what if'ing, what if this scenario is looked at, what if this scenario is looked at as far as the ()-

42 value is concerned; and that's how we want to -- I'm sorry. Q. So, for example, if Mr. Jordon paid more in back taxes than the HCAD value of the property at the time it was stolen, your argument would be, that's a wash; the true owner is owed nothing? A. I believe that if it's going to be considered in the broader picture that that should be considered. Now if we're just going to talk about these particular 0 0 properties and the true owners of those properties, then I believe that if there's going to be an issue about the back taxes, because ultimately somebody didn't pay the back taxes previous to Mr. Jordon taking over those properties. So should they get the benefit of that? I don't believe they should. Q. Would you agree with me that in your review of the properties in Mr. Jordon's files and in the State's files that the defendant targeted properties that had heavy back taxes that were owed? A. I don't know if he targeted because I didn't have that specific question. I can see where that could be an issue because they're abandoned. I mean, those properties are abandoned. If they weren't abandoned, then why didn't someone keep up the property taxes? Q. And when you say abandoned, you mean no one is ()-

43 0 living there? A. No one's -- I mean not living there, the property is overgrown. Q. It's not your position that nobody owned the property? A. Oh, no, never. No. Q. In some of the -- we talked about a lot of s between you and I, right? A. You and I and Chip -- and Mr. Lewis and Mr. Blizzard, yes, because I think you sent it to all three of us at the time. 0 Q. And one of the s that I sent you included the State's offense summary, did it not? A. Yes. I believe that was a couple of weeks ago, three weeks ago. Q. It was about 0 days ago so it would have been early March or, excuse me, early February. A. Okay. Q. Is that -- A. Is it the one -- let me make sure. Is it the one that had several attachments to it at the time? Q. Yes, it has attachments A through D. A. Yes, ma'am. Q. You got a copy of that. You've reviewed it? A. Yes, ma'am. ()-

44 Q. You're aware that Mr. Jordon filed for bankruptcy for his company, E Jordon, Inc., in 00? Are you aware of that? A. I'm not specifically aware of that. 0 0 Q. And if I were to show you something, would that maybe refreshes your recollection? A. You can show it to me, but I don't remember specifically if there was a bankruptcy or anything pertaining to a bankruptcy that I recall after looking through all those records. But if you say there was a bankruptcy, then I don't -- I have no reason to doubt you. Q. And for that bankruptcy, it was for Mr. Jordon's company, not for him individually as far as you're aware? A. That would depend on how the bankruptcy is filed. Is it he personally or he Jordon Home Builders? MS. TURNER: May I approach the witness? THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) I'm showing you a certified copy of bankruptcy records pertaining to E Jordon, Inc. Would you agree with me that those were filed in October of 00? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Are you aware that this bankruptcy was ()-

45 0 voluntarily withdrawn by Mr. Jordon after its filing? 0 0 A. That I do not know. If you would want to refer me to a particular page to identify that, I will confirm it. Q. And I don't want to take up the Court's time, but I think you remember in the State's offense summary there was a paragraph referencing the bankruptcy petition. A. There could have been. It was a long -- a long report plus all the other attachments that related to it. Q. And if I showed you a copy of my offense summary, you'd be able to take a quick look and see whether that information on the bankruptcy was included, would you not? A. Yes. If this document is the document that, in fact, that you sent over. Q. And I'm showing you page of the State's offense summary which I believe in the PSI report -- if I could see the heading on page, it will help me find it in here. Okay. So in the PSI report this would have been page 0. I'm showing you a copy of the PSI report, am I not? A. Okay. Uh-huh. ()-

46 Q. And on page 0 it says -- there's a heading, 0 0 Defendant's Actions and Attempts to Shield His Identity? A. I think this is on page -- that is page. Q. Correct. On the offense summary submitted by the State which you've got a copy of, it's page. A. Okay. Q. On the PSI it's page 0. A. Okay. Q. Would you agree with me that the second paragraph there says: The defendant may have formed this corporation in anticipation of filing a bankruptcy of E Jordon, Inc. However, the bankruptcy petition was not filed until October, 00, and his petition was later withdrawn? A. Okay. Q. Is that fair to state? A. It states that there, yes. Q. And do you have a question as to whether this is the offense summary you received and whether this is the PSI report? A. I have none, no. Q. You don't know that? A. No. I mean, I'm not disputing that. No. MS. TURNER: May I approach the witness? THE COURT: You may. ()-

47 0 0 Q. (BY MS. TURNER) Mr. Vaclavik, I'm showing you what's been marked as State's Exhibit (sic). Would you take a look at that and tell me what it is? A. It is articles of incorporation that are filed with the State of Texas related to J. Home Builders & Construction, Inc. Q. And I'm sorry, I meant to say State's Exhibit. I'm not sure if I did. Would you agree with me -- well, Your Honor, at this point I'll offer State's Exhibit. This is a certified copy on file with the Secretary of State's office relating to J. Home Builders & Construction. MR. BLIZZARD: I have no objection, Judge. THE COURT: State's is admitted. (State's Exhibit No. admitted.) MS. TURNER: And, Your Honor, if I could just reference it with the witness, if you wouldn't mind. Thank you. Q. (BY MS. TURNER) Mr. Vaclavik, would you agree with me that State's Exhibit shows a certificate of formation of August th, 00? A. That is correct. Q. And I'm assuming, Mr. Vaclavik, that you've reviewed the defendant's sentencing memorandum and ()-

48 mitigation packet? A. I have not, no. Q. So if there were a statement in there that conflicted about when J. Home Builders & Construction 0 0 was incorporated, which would you believe is the better source, the Secretary of State or the defendant's sentencing memorandum? A. As formed officially, then it's going to be the Secretary of State. Q. I believe that -- have you reviewed the defendant's income versus monthly expenses? A. Specifically, no. Q. "No"? A. No. Q. Are you aware that he has stated that his monthly expenses are $,00? A. Are we talking currently? Q. In the -- A. Are we talking about in those years? Q. Currently. A. I have no clue what his current financial situation is. Q. So you're not aware of what his income is either? A. No, ma'am. ()-

49 0 0 Q. So you can't make any statements as to whether it appears Mr. Jordon can pay restitution as ordered by the Court? A. I have no clue currently if he has. I just know the things that he has done to try to pay restitution. Q. But you can't make any statements as to whether he has the funds to pay restitution? A. I have no idea. MS. TURNER: Pass this witness, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. MR. BLIZZARD: A few questions. THE COURT: You may. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BLIZZARD: Q. Mr. Vaclavik, again, can you tell the Judge about how many state investigations you've been involved in? A. to 00. Q. Did you take a careful look at all the records involved in the State's case, in this case? A. The records that I was -- that I believe were important to this case and what my particular objective was, yes. ()-