1 > 0 RTHER P R O C E E D I N G S :00 a.ntvt* * *.*.,.» * THIS CUSE came on for further. s. : trial before The Honorable Franklin T. Dupree, Jr., United States Chief District Judge, and a jury, on Friday, July,, at Raleigh, North Carolina. (The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.) 1 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and 1 gentlemen. ny further evidence for the Government in * 1 IS this case? ; *. MR. BLCKBURNI Yes, sir. > 1 THE COURT: Call your witness. - MR. BLCKBURNi Your Honor, we call Michael 1 Newman. 1 0 1 was called follows t ) D I (Whereupon, r " MICHEL DOUGLS NEWMN as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as»; RECT E X M I N T I O N t01 a.m. m - TS u PRECISION BY MR. BLCKBURN: REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. D». O.» m MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL -* PITTSBOFtO -
i 'BC- I Please state your name? ^ *O -i 'J Michael Douglas Newman. Mr. Newman, if you would, sir, speak loudly * enough so everyone can hear you. Where do you presently live, Mr. Newman? U 1 Bragg. r ^ o 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 I am currently residing in Fayetteville. Where are you employed? I am stationed at-womack rmy Hospital, Fort In what capacity do"you work there? I am now a Physician's ssistant. How long have you been a Physician's ssistant? bout four and a half years. Would you tell us briefly, sir, what that is? Well, I am a highly-skilled technician. I work very closely with the doctor. I do triage on patients, follow-up care on chronic long-term patients. I take care of a lot of minor illnesses and injuries. Now, directing your attention to February of 0, where were you employed? I was currently working in the emergency room as a Senior Clinical Technician at Womack rmy Hospital. nd how long had you been working there? For approximately nine and a half months at Y j r j PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. in LffT II D» o t~»<u MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1- CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO
that txme. k \^IW Where had y o u been prior to that time? Prior to that, I had been in V i e t n a m with a clearing company. J What did y o u d o while you w e r e in Vietnam? I worked in the triage section the clearing company. We were with the First Cavalry Division. We received casualties straight from the field. We didrap- id treatment, resuscitation. dan y o u explain to the jury what you mean by the term "triage"? 1 We did an evaluation of the evaluations on 1 the p a t i e n t s. The ones that w e took care of, w e took - 1 care of; a n d if w e could not,w e transferred them on o u t to hospitals. 1 Now, d i r e c t i n g your attention to the th o f n February, 0,d i d y o u h a v e an occasion to be on duty 1 that day? 1 Yes,s i r ; Iw a s. 0 nd do y o u recall the time period around 1 :00 o r :0 on the early morning of the th? Yes, sir. J m Did y o u h a v e an o c c a s i o n, as a result of your responsibilities in the emergency room, to see the Defen- dant, Jeffrey MacDonald? r~~"] PRECISION REPORTING V «ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.». o to. Mia Jt JU MIN OFFICE RLEIGH B 0 DURHM CHPEL HILL * PlTTSBORO
1» *.w l Yea, sir; I did. >^ When did you first see him? s he was brought in from the ambulance to 1 *J the emergency room. It was sometime between x00 and ft i0 that morning. Now, where were you when you first saw him? I was inside the emergency room itself. How did Dr. MacDonald come into the emergency room? He came in on a litter, and he was brought in by our ambulance there from the hospital. 1 Was he laying down or sitting up? 1 He was laying down on the stretcher. * 1 Was he uncovered or was he covered? I believe he had a sheet over him when he 1 came in. 1 was he taken? Now, when he came into the hospital, where 1 0 treatment He was immediately taken around towards the room. We have a little area off the treatment 1 room called the crash room. He was taken into the crash J ot room. Where were you during this time? I was with him. Besides yourself, once he went into the crash PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.» O» I K U MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO -
I room, who else was with him? :»M There were two corpsmen working with me that night. There was also a nurse, and I believe the night supervisor came down and went in with us then. J Now, what did you do, if anything, once he came into the crash room, sir? Well, he was initially brought in. He was transferred over to the litter in the crash room, and we checked him out for wounds, took vital signs on him and got him ready for the doctor. I believe the doctor came in very shortly after we carried him into the crash room. 1 1 pproximately how long were you with him before a doctor came in, if you can recall? 1 Probably no more than four to five minutes before the doctor was in there with him. 1 If you would, sir, tell us, if you can recall what his vital signs were? 1 I cannot recall the exact figures on his 1 0 1 blood pressure. s I recall, though, it was stable and-- his pulse rate was also stable. I don't remember the exact numbers. Now, you say you checked him out for wounds; J is that correct? Yes, sir. P What exactly did you do? C~ PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.. o... MM) MIN OFFICE Rlf IGM B 0 DURHM 1 JB CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
1 On the initial exam u.jt I did on him, I Uft saw three wounds on him. There was one on the upper left arm, one on the right chest (Interposing) Excuse mej would you point to the location on your own body where you saw these? Somewhere in this area there was one wound (indicating). There was one on the right chest and one on the upper left abdomen, right at the border of the thorax. Okay; stand up if you would. Where was the third wound? ( 1 1 1 chest. The third wound was somewhere on the right With respect to the wound on the left arm, how would you describe that wound, sir? 1 In my opinion, it was a superficial laceration. 1 What, if anything, did you do to treat that 1 0 wound? The only thing that I did to those were to 1 wash them up. Now, the one that was on his chest, I did place a Vaseline gauze pad over it. Which one? The one on the right chest. How large an area did that wound cover, if & III PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. o.» mn o ; MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 B CHPEL HILL ( ITTSBORO
you rb-all, sir? >v s I recall, itw a s just a small laceration there on thec h e s t, perhaps an inch long. I really don't recall the exact length ofi t. What treatment, if any, didyoud o tot h e third wound that youmentioned this morning? s I recall, theonly thing Idid to it was clean it up. He also had an abrasion on the left forehead, I believe, and there wasa lump there; and 1 cleaned it u p, washed his face down. 1 Was that lump bleeding or non-bleeding? 1 No; there wasa little bito f fluid was seeping from it. Itwasnotb l e e d i n g. u Was theskin broken or unbroken? Yes,s i r ;t h eskin wasb r o k e n. 1 Now,M r.n e w m a n, during the time thaty o u 1 1 0 worked in theemergency room prior to this date, andwhen you were in Vietnam, have you ever had an occasion tos e e wounds or puncture wounds that were caused by ani c e pick, or could have been caused by an icepick? 1 Very probably; I hadputa lotof time ini n m the emergency room, andw e used to geta lotof stabbing injuriesi n. Howmany icepick wounds didy o u observe on the Defendant Jeffrey MacDonald?? D PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. ' o m Niu MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
1 I didnotseeany ice ^ick wounds. HU During this four or five minute period, what, if anything, didyou say to thedefendant? I didnotsay anything during the firstfew minutes hewas there. What, if anything, didhe say to you? Well, hew a s talking about what had happened there to the family, and I don't recall whether anyo f the CIDpeople were in there or not; buth e was talking about what had happened, and hewas asking howh i swife and children were. 1 What didyousay in response? 1 1 1 Well, I told him that they were allr i g h t, if I recall. Ididnot tell him that they were dead at the time. We had already been informed that they were dead. Now,y o usay that thedoctors came in four to 1 five minutes after youwere with him; is that correct? 1 0 1 recall? Yes, sir. Which doctors arey o u referring to,i fy o u Sir,I really don't remember which doctorwas there in the emergency room that night. Well, how many doctors came in? Initially there waso n e, and then the surgeon C - D PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. P O B M H I U MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
I was c-iled down and there were t-j doctors there; and^<l. I don't recall whether itw a sd r. Straub or Dr.Jacobson that came down first. u Okay; after whichever doctor came in first, did you stay there while thedoctor was there? crash room? Yes, sir. nd how long did Dr. MacDonald remain int h e I believe he stayed in there probably between and 0minutes before we carried himo v e r to x-ray. Howw a s thedefendant Jeffrey MacDonald 1 dressed during this time? 1 When he initially came in,h e had on a pair * 1 1 of pajama pants, which were taken offof him immediately after hegot there so that he could be checked out for further wounds on thelower extremities. Other than that he had on nothing. 1 1 Didy o u observe his entire body? Yes,s i r ;I very quickly looked over himto 0 see if there were any other wounds on him. 1 Howmany wounds didy o uo b s e r v e on h i sback J area? I didn o tseeanyo n hisb a c k. I, w JC±I H PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. _a * O %mm totu MIN OFFICE RlEiGM? 0 DURHM 1- CHPEL HILL PlTTSBOftO
BY MR. BLCKBURNl t«j». X ^ 0 Now after one of the doctors returned or came to the crash room, what if anything did you observe occur? crash room? Beg your pardon, sir? What happened after the doctor came to the The doctor came in and he did an examination on him and ordered the chest films. When you speak of chest films, what do you mean? 1 He was sent over to x-ray for x-rays of his 1 chest. 1 Was that in regard to any particular wound? m Probably the one on his right chest. 1 Did you go over to x-rays with him? 1 1 Yes, sir, I did go over to x-ray with him. How long did that take? I think he was over there probably about 0 1 to minutes. I left the x-ray, went back over to the emergency room and got some syringes and test tubes to draw off some blood for some further lab tests that the doctor wanted to get. 0 fter he returned from x-rays, what happened? r~l PRECISION REPORTING *»D TRNSCRIBING. INC. o»- mu MIN Ot'Cr Hlfir.M ft-i; SO**, 0U««M 1 V-SJH CHPEL MILL PITTSBORO
i n He was sent upstairs -*t h e ward. 0 Did you go with him up to the ward? Yes, sir, I did go up to the ward with him. Now, during any of this conversation with the defendant, that he had in the crash room,did he make any statements as to who he thought had done these things to him? Yes, sir, he did. Would you please state to the jury what he said? He said that there was a white woman, two m 1 1 1 1 black males, and one white male. The woman was stating, "cid is groovy; kill the pigs." He continued to ask how the wife and children were, and he also asked why would they do that to his wife, that she had never hurt anyone. Now, during this time that you examined or 1 1 were around Dr. MacDonald in the crash room, were you able to examine or observe his breathing? 0 Yes, sir. While I was washing off his face, j 1 he started to breathe a little bit rapidly, and I told him to slow it down and he did. Now, when he was taken over to x-ray, how did he go over to x-ray? Was he carried or did he walk or what? ~ PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. - P O».. M'U MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
i He went over by litter. Ufil 0 Was he lying down or sitting up? Yes, sir, he was laying (sic) flat. When you took him up to the ward was he still on the litter? 0 Yes, sir, he was. nd he was lying down at that time? Yes, sir. During your experience in the emergency room 1 and in Vietnam prior to that time, have you ever had occasion to observe individuals who have been in physical shock? 1 Yes, sir, I have. m M Do you have an opinion, sir, satisfactory to 1 yourself as to whether or not the Defendant, Jeffrey MacDonald, was in physical shock at that time? 1 I did not consider him to be in shock. What were the conditions of his eyes, if you 1 can recall, sir? 0 Sir, I really don't remember. I can't give 1 a clear statement on that. Now, do you recall who the doctor was who j was going up to the surgical ward? I believe it was Dr. Jacobson. nd where werey o uw h e n this was going on? PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. p o»m n<u MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO -
1 I was helping transput the litter up to \^ the ward with him. Do you recall whether or not any conversation within your hearing ability between Dr. Jacobson and the Defendant took place? Yes, sir, he and Dr. Jacobson were talking about the possibility of putting in a chest tube. They were also talking about a kid that they had both worked on some time prior in the emergency room, that had had to have some chest tubes put. Do you recall any names that they were 1 speaking about? 1 No, sir, it was a kid who had been on a bad J 1 1 1 1 0 1. LSD trip, and he had gotten away from the staff and gone up to the ninth floor and he jumped out the ninth floor window. He landed on top of the laboratory, was brought into the emergency room, and was worked on there. The kid did not live very long. I understand that Dr. MacDonald and Dr. Straub had both worked on him and in the emergency room. In overhearing this conversation, did you have an occasion to hear what treatment, if any, was given to this young man? Well, they had had to put chest tubes into PRECISIONREPORTING NDTRNSCRIBING.INC. ' o %.. Hi ] MIN O^FICF RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
i this young man, and Dr.MacDonald -as a little apprehensive about having a chest tube put into himself. MR. BLCKBURN: Just one second. Your Honor. (Pause.) MR. BLCKBURN: Your Honor, that will complete our direct examination. The Defense may cross examine. THE COURT: Very well. CROSS E X M I N T I O N (:1 a.m.) 1 1 1 ir, BY MR. SMITH: Mr. Newman, you testified at the rticle proceedings in this matter, did you not? Yes,s i r,id i d. 1 nd the information which you have given us 1 today is basically the same information you gave tothe rticle proceedings? 1 0 Yes,s i r,i believe so. Youa l s o testified at the Grand Jury, didy o u 1 not? Yes,s i r,1d i d. j Now, I believe you testified to the Grand m Jury that Dr. MacDonald was very cooperative with you, is that correct? PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.» o w- mu MIN 0fF\C RltiGH 0 DURHM CHPEL MILL l»n?&«pirisboho $
- i this young man, and Dr.MacDonald -asa little apprehensive about having a chest tube put into himself. > v^ \j MR. BLCKBURN: Just one second. Your Honor. J (Pause.) MR. BLCKBURN: Your Honor, that will complete our direct examination. The Defense may cross examine. THE COURT: Very well. CROSS E X M I N T I O N (:1 a.m.) m 1 1 1 BY MR. SMITH: Mr. Newman, you testified at the rticle proceedings in this matter, did you not? Yes,s i r,id i d. 1 nd the information which you have given us 1 today is basically the same information you gave tothe rticle proceedings? 1 0 Yes,s i r,i believe so. You also testified at the Grand Jury, did you 1 not? >o Yes, sir, I did. J Now, I believe you testified to the Grand m Jury that Dr. MacDonald was very cooperative with you, is that correct? C~J PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. * o mm MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM )\ CHPEL HILL * PITTSBORO <
1 Yes, sir, he was. K He was cooperative in all ways with you? Yes, sir. him to do? In other words, he dideach thing youasked Yes, sir. Youh a v e also said from time to time in your testimony that hew a s excited, is that correct? Yes, sir,h e was somewhat excited and concerned about hisw i f e and children. Have you ever told anyone that hew a s 1 hysterical about hisw i f e and children? 1 Sir, I really don't recall;if he didg e t 1 hysterical, it was calmed very quickly. 'llr i g h t. Do you remember any moments 1 1 which youwould describe as hysteria on the part of Dr. MacDonald about his family, about hisw h o l e situation? 1 Theo n l y time wasw h e n Iw a sw a s h i n g his 0 1 face down. He became a little bitexcited, hisbreath - ing started togeta little more rapid. I asked himt o slow itdown andh e did. You,I think, have described that at least t S in one proceeding as hyperventilation, is that correct? Yes, s i r. JDIJ-ID" PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM» CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
1 What is hyperventilation? \$W> Hyperventilation is a rapid, shallow breathing. nd is that what Dr.M a c D o n a l d was doing? He started into it, and I asked him to slow his breathing down, which he immediately did. ll right. Would you say that based on the 1 1 1 1 IS 1 0 1 conversations you had with Dr. M a c D o n a l d t h e things that he was talking about would you say that his predominant concern at that time was about his family and not about himself? Yes,s i r,h e was very concerned about his wife and children. What was he saying about his w i f e and children? He was asking if they were all right. He was very concerned about his w i f e. He stated that she really looked bad, that he had pulled a knife out ofher chest, and he could not feel a pulse, and he was very concerned about her well-being. nd did he express to you statements which caused you to believe he did not know they were dead, is that true? Yes, sir. nd at that moment you knew they were dead. PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.». o»~ aiu MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO -
i didn't you? N(IW Yea, sir, we had been informed before he arrived that the rest of the family was dead. Had there been a decision made on your part and on the part of others in the emergency room not to tell him about the deaths? Sir, that would have been up the doctor. It was not my responsibility to tell him. Had you been told not to tell him? No, sir, I do not recall that I had been. Did you just make a decision on your own not «1 1 1 to tell him, or was that part of the protocol of the emergency room? Sir, it is usually up to the doctor to inform the patient about a death. 1 Were there moments when Dr. MacDonald was in your presence when he expressed to you pain? 1 1 0 1 inserted? Sir, I don't recall. Were you present when the chest tube was No, sir, I was not. But you were present when discussion was J m had with Dr. MacDonald about the chest tube? He and Dr. Jacobson were talking about it as we were waiting for the elevator to go upstairs. PRECISIONR E P O R T I N G NDTRNSCRIBING.INC.» O»- ( < > MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO -
1 In any of the discussions with X>^ iblj Dr. MacDonald or in any statements that he made, did he ever use the word "hippie"? S i r, I really don't r e c a l l. You don't r e c a l l his using that word? events home? Mo, s i r, I do not. Youd o recall hi telling you aboutt h e that he said had taken place inh i s Yes, sir. Now,I believe that youhave testified in + 1 1 1 previous proceedings that there wasblood around Dr. MacDonald's mouth, is that correct? There wasblood on his face, sir. 1 1 1 J 1 0 1 I,? U 1 PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. D» O» MM) MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM CHPEL HILL -* PITTSBORO -
1 BY MR. SMITHI N ^ What parts of his face, if you recall? If I recall correctly, it was on his.forehead and I believe there was some smeared on the cheeks. On both cheeks? Sir, I really don't recall about the cheeks. I think there was some smeared on the cheeks. It appeared the blood had been smeared with his hands. His hands were also bloody. Mr. Newman, unfortunately, the pajama 1 bottoms were thrown away; weren't they? 1 1 Yes, sir; they were. I know that you regret that. Would you 1 describe the pajama bottoms as you last remember seeing them?.s i r, as I recall, there was blood on the 0 1 1 0 1 pajama bottoms. The inseam of the pajama bottoms was ripped out from about mid-thigh all the way across. I was the one who went ahead and threw them away, and when we started cleaning up, the CID had been there and everybody else had been around, and no one had picked them up. They were left in the crash room, and I picked them up and threw them away. H PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC.,. O.» - H'U MIN OFFICE RLElGM? 0S DURHM 1 S CHPEL MILL PITTSBORO -
l l><c 0 You assumed, I take -c, that if anyone v ^ had wanted them at that point* something would have been done to p r e s e r v e t h e m or store them. Yes, sir. "cks what happened to them? Were they just tossed in the trash basket or Yes, sir; they were thrown into the garbage can. Do you know whether any effort was made to retrieve them? 1 Sir, I really don't know. Do you know whether any sample was taken or 1 1! any cutting was taken from the pajamas of any blood on the pajama bottoms? 1 I really don't believe there was because 1 1 they were thrown on the floor there in the crash room and I don't think anyone bothered them until they were picked up and thrown out. 1 Do you know how long Dr. MacDonald was in 0 the hospital recuperating? 1 No, sir; I really don't know exactly. ^J How many times did you take his blood pressure or his temperature? I really don't recall whether I took his blood pressure or not. I had two corpsmen working with PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. ' O» - H I U MIN OFFICE RLEIGH B 0 DURHM 1 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO
,:ka r ft me that night, and I don't recall who took the blood pressures and I don't recall how many times it was taken Do you remember what it was? No, sin I have no idea. Do you know whether anybody did ever check his eyes for dilation of the pupils? - I am sure they must have been. The doctor went over him. That is usually a part of the exam. 1 1 1 Honor. MR. SMITHt THE COURT: MR. BLCKBURN: THE COURT: MR. BLCKBURN: No further questions. Your ny re-direct? No, sir. Your Honor. Call your next. Your Honor, we would call 1 Paul Connolly and if I may ask the Defense, may this witness be excused? MR. SMITH: Ye. IS 1 0 1 - (Witness excused.) (Whereupon, PUL. CONNOLLY was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as followst) DIRECT E X M I N T I O N : a.m. * BY MR. BLCKBURN:. C~ PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. r o % n<u MIN OFFICE RlElGH 0 DURHM CHPEL HILl - PITTSBORO -