06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q: 13 14 A: 15 16 Q: 17 18 A: 19 20 Q: 21 22 A: 23 24 Q: 25 26 27 A: 28 29 Q: 30 31 A: 32 33 Q: 34 35 A: 36 37 Q: 38 39 40 A: 41 42 Q: 43 14 A: 45 Cordell? INTERVIEW OF CORDELL JUDE Q=Det. (Keith Moffett) A=Cordell Jude How you doin', bud? Hey, I'm Detective (Keith Moffett)... How you all?... Phoenix Police Homicide. How are you? Hey, um, can I get you a drink? Do you need to go to the bathroom or anything? No. Ah, but I gotta pee. You gotta pee? Why don't you come out with me? Appreciate it, man. You bet. We go right out through that door over here. Sure I can't get you a bottle of water or somethin' like that? I'm all right. You're all right? (Unintelligible) bathroom some water.
Page 2 46 Q: 47 48 49 50 51 A: 52 53 Q: 54 55 56 57 A: 58 59 Q: 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 A: 67 68 Q: 69 70 A: 71 72 Q: 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 A: 80 81 Q: 82 83 A: 84 85 Q: 86 87 A: 88 39 Q: 90 All right. Go ahead and have a seat. Again Cordell, urn, my name's (Keith Moffett). I'm a detective here with Phoenix Police. And I'm assigned to investigate this case. Before we get go in' you have the right to remain silent. Me? And- you. Let me explain what's gonna happen. Okay? I'm gonna ask you questions. I don't know where we're gonna end up. So I'd rather get this out of the way and then we'll go from there. Okay? You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in a court oflaw. You have the right to the presence of an attomey to assist you prior to questioning and to be with you during questioning if you so desire. If you cannot afford an attomey, you have the right to have an attomey appointed for you prior to questioning. Do you understand these rights? Yes, but I understand why I'm being under arrest though. Well obviously there was an incident out at the Taco Bell. And a subject is- is now dead. I don't know what happened out there. I haven't talked to you. I've been out there. I've heard what other people have told me. But I think you probably have more information about it than anybody that I talked to out there. So I want to get your side of it. Before we do any of that though, let me just make sure I've got all your information right. How do you spell your last name for me, sir? Jude, J-U-D-E. And your first name? Cordell, C-0-R-D-E-L-L. And your middle name? Lamar, L-A-M-A-R. And you go by Cordell? Any nicknames or anything like that that you use? Just Cordell? And how old are you, sir?
Interviewer: Det. (Keith Moffett} 06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20l200590480 Page 3 91 92 A: 93 94 Q: 95 96 A: 97 98 Q: 99 100 A: 101 102 Q: 103 104 A: 105 106 Q: 107 108 A: 109 110 Q: 1 1 1 12 A: 113 114 Q: I 15 116 A: 117 118 Q: 119 120 A: 121 122 Q: 123 124 A: 125 126 Q: 127 128 A: 129 130 Q: 131 132 133 A: 34 135 Q: Twenty-two. And what's your date of birth? 1-10-90. How long you been out in Phoenix? Mm, almost five years now. Five years? Where you livin'? Laveen, Arizona. What's your address out there in Laveen? 4316 West Park Street. And who do you live with there? Mom and dad. And where you from before you came out to Arizona? Michigan. From Michigan? From Detroit judgin' from your hat. How long' d you live out there, your whole life before you lived here? Seventeen years. Ah, your parents move out here, and you came out here with them? They, ah, just- I've heard that Detroit's kinda strugglin'. Is that the way it is out there? Mm, yeah, when we left, yeah. Is it better now? Do you still have family back there?
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) Page 4 136 137 A: 138 139 140 Q: 141 142 A: 143 144 Q: 145 146 A: 147 148 Q: 149 150 A: 151 152 Q: 153 154 A: 155 1 56 Q: 57 158 A: 159 160 Q: 161 162 A: 163 164 Q: 165 166 A: 167 168 Q: 169 170 A: 171 172 Q: 173 174 A: 175 176 Q: 177 178 A: 79 180 Q: No, just my, ah- my oldest- except the oldest brother, but he live in like Taylor, Michigan. Is that close? I don't know my way around Michigan? Little far. It's like a- a Phoenix and Gilbert. Ohokay. So 45, 20 minutes away...... somethin' like that. So you guys were actually in Detroit Detroit? Yeah, we was in Detroit Detroit. He stayed in Taylor, Michigan. Uh-huh. Got a little barbershop. Own a barbershop out there. Older brother? So he's stilllikin' it? Still happy out there? Ah, he got a business. He gotta feed his family, so... Gotcha. Are you workin' right now? Yes, I am. Where do you work at? I work at LSG Sky Chef. It's a caterin' company for the airlines. What do you do there?
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) 06-07- I 2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page 5 181 182 A: 183 184 Q: 185 186 A: 187 188 189 Q: 190 191 A: 192 193 Q: 194 195 A: 196 197 Q: 198 199 A: 200 "01 Q:.02 203 A: 204 205 Q: 206 207 A: 208 209 Q: 210 211 A: 212 213 Q: 214 215 A: 216 217 Q: 218 219 A: 220 221 Q: 222 ~23 A: 24 225 Q: I actually cater to airlines. What does - what does that mean? Ah, cater the, ah, airplane, re- refresh their beverages, and their food, and everything like that. Oh like with - with carts and stuff? Everybody- yeah. Oh okay. That's my job right there. Ohokay. For the commercial airlines. All right. So do you drive the truck, or do you... Yeah, when I need to. And then they lift that thing up... Yup.... and then you just roll everything back and forth? That's us. Wow. That's us. How long you been doin' that? Almost four years now. Four years? Almost. And what kinda hours you work out there?
06-07- I 2/2:00 pm Page 6 226 227 A: 228 229 Q: 230 231 A: 232 233 Q: 234 235 A: 236 237 Q: 238 239 A: 240 241 242 Q: 243 244 A: 245 "46 Q:.47 248 A: 249 250 251 252 Q: 253 254 A: 255 256 Q: 257 258 A: 259 260 Q: 261 262 A: 263 264 Q: 265 266 A: 267?.68 Q: 59 270 From 5:30am to 2:30 o'clock pm. And what days of the week you work? Urn, I'm off Tuesday, Wednesday, so Thursday through Monday. What are your busy days, or is every day just the same? Every day is pretty... It's always crazy out there, huh? 'Cuz I work, ah- work on various teams. I don't have the same team every day, so...... every day is... And how many planes you guys take care of in a day? Ooh, it depends on what team you workin'. Sunday- Sunday and Monday I do flex, and you just sit out there on a field and whoever needs somethin' extra we just run it. So it depends on the day. What's a lot of planes to do in a day? Twenty, 30. That's - yeah. A lot. Do you get any like flight benefits or anything like that with... Nah.... that stuff? No, nothin' like that? No. Um, what's your work phone number?
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 7 271 A: 272 273 Q: 274 275 A: 276 277 Q: 278 279 A: 280 281 Q: 282 283 A: 284 285 Q: 286 287 A: 288 289 Q: 290 "91. 92 A: 293 294 Q: 295 296 A: 297 298 Q: 299 300 A: 301 302 Q: 303 304 A: 305 306 Q: 307 308 A: 309 310 Q: 311 312 A: 113 14 Q: 315 Urn, that actually- it's in my cell phone. What's your cell number? 313-717-2014. 2014? Yes, sir. 313, is that, ah... The Detroit area. Detroit? And who's your boss out there? Urn, (Larry Parillo), I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Urn, when you guys moved out to Phoenix, did you move into that Laveen house right off the get go, or have you guys moved around? Well we was in hotels for a month and then we moved into the house. So after you stayed in the hotel you went straight out to that house in Laveen? Did you, ah- did you go to high school out here or back in... I did - I did a couple months in Caesar Chavez. Did you graduate from there? No. It- I got- actually I got aged. Oh did you? Good for you. What was the last year you attended at, ah, Caesar Chavez?
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page 8 316 A: 317 318 Q: 319 320 A: 321 322 Q: 323 324 A: 325 326 Q: 327 328 A: 329 330 331 332 333 Q: 334 335 A: '<36 37 Q: 338 339 A: 340 341 342 Q: 343 344 A: 345 346 347 348 Q: 349 350 351 A: 352 353 Q: 354 355 A: 356 357 Q: 158 59 A: 360 2008. Two thous- yeah, 2008. 2008? And what - what grade were you there? Twelfth. Twelfth grade? Senior year? How hard was that GED? It wasn't that hard. It was just, ah, I only took it because through the move or whatever my- Michigan was so messed up. They didn't send my transcript, my lap, nothin' over. So Chavez basically said like you don't even exist, and it's your senior year. So you gotta... Ah, so you...... start goin' to day school, afternoon school, and night school. Right. My senior year I'm tryin' to get - you know get ready for the graduation and stuff. Oh yeah. My mom and them just had moved out here. We couldn't afford the clothes and all that stuff with the move. So only thing I could do was drop out, get a job, help my mom and them out, and... Did you have - did you have to study a lot for the GED, or did you just go in there and knock it out? Well my grandma actually helped... Yeah?... ah, to study for it. But... Gotcha....I did it soon as I really- I basically got out, so I was still fresh. And, you know what I mean.
Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page 9 361 362 Q: 363 364 A: 365 366 Q: 367 368 A: 369 370 371 Q: 372 373 374 A: 375 376 Q: 377 378 A: 379 380 Q: '81 62 A: 383 384 Q: 385 386 A: 387 388 Q: 389 390 A: 391 392 Q: 393 394 A: 395 396 Q: 397 398 A: 399 400 Q: 401 402 A: 403 J4 Q: 405 And that's a good thing to have. You can't just walk away from school. Well yeah, man, I had to do somethin' with my life. I wasn'tjust gonna, you know... Do you have any siblings that moved out with you? You left your brother baek there. Um... Do you have any other brothers and sisters? My third oldest brother moved out here, (Ricky) Jude. Mm, how old's (Ricky)? (Ricky)'s about twenty- 29. Gotcha. He actually cut hair and work at FedEx. You cut hair too or... He just got his license out here. But do you? No. No. So it's not like the family business. Nah. Not everybody. I get my hair cut. There you go.
Page I 0 406 A: 407 408 Q: 409 410 A: 411 412 Q: 413 414 A: 415 416 Q: 417 418 A: 419 420 Q: 421 422 A: 423 424 Q: 425 '26 A:. 27 428 Q: 429 430 A: 431 432 Q: 433 434 A: 435 436 Q: 437 438 A: 439 440 Q: 441 442 A: 443 444 Q: 445 446 A: 447 448 Q: 49 450 A: Me and the two oldest get our hair cut. All right. We go get it cut. And who was with you tonight? Ah, my girlf1iend, who's actually pregnant, Ronisha Rush. Ronnie? Ronisha. Ronisha. R-0-N-l-S-H-A. And her last name is what? Rush. How do you spell it? R-U-S-H. How pregnant is she? Eight months. Wow. Is this your first? My second actual! y. Yeah? How old's your other one? Urn, she's four months now. Wow. You- you stayin' busy, man.
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) Page II 451 452 Q: 453 454 A: 455 456 Q: 457 458 A: 459 460 Q: 461 462 A: 463 464 Q: 465 466 A: 467 468 469 Q: 470 '71 A:.72 473 Q: 474 475 A: 476 477 478 Q: 479 480 A: 481 482 Q: 483 484 485 A: 486 487 488 489 490 Q: 491 492 A: 493 )4 495 Q: Congratulations. Appreciate it, sir. So do you know what you're havin' this one? Is this a boy or a girl? Boy. Oh so you have one of each. One of each. Good for you dude. Does, ah, Ronisha, does she live with you? Yes. Well she stays in her apartment. She got a apartment on, ah, 43rd Aven I mean 71 st Avenue and Indian School, Del Mar Terrace. Oh yeah, yeah, I know Del Mar. So I stay with her. How long have you guys been together? Urn, since she been out here, about seven months she's been out here (unintelligible). Well at least eight months, right? Well yeah, at least eight months. Right. All right. Why don't- why don't you tell me like, ah, what time' d you pick up Ronisha tonight, or have you guys been together all day? We was together, urn, all day. We was at the house. And we was gettin' ready to go over to my mom house. I can't remember exactly what time it was. But, you know, she's pregnant, so she was hungry. We stopped at Taco Bell...... right- right there before we get to my mom house. 'Cuz usually I would take Southern and just cut around to 43rd and go to my mom's house.
interviewer: Det. (Keith Moffett) Page 12 496 497 A: 498 499 500 Q: 501 502 A: 503 504 505 Q: 506 507 A: 508 509 510 Q: 511 512 A: 513 514 515 Q: "16. 17 A: 518 519 Q: 520 521 A: 522 523 Q: 524 525 A: 526 527 528 Q: 529 530 A: 531 532 533 Q: 534 535 A: 536 537 'i38 Q: 39 540 A: But she was hungry, so we stopped at Taco BelL She want to try the new Doritos taco. And, ah, she ordered some type of potato. They told us it was gonna be a minute, so...... pull around to the front And as I'm pullin' around to the front, this guy, like his dog comes out first in front of the car. So I slammed on my brakes. And he swings this pole like what the fuck is you doin', like he said what the fuck is your problem? Are you crazy or something? He swings what? I'm sorry. Swings his whatever he had in his hand, like a pole, or bat, or something. And he swings it But it was like in mid - mid air. So at that time I pull out my gun and put it in my lap like what- what's wrong with you. You know what I mean? He starts- he- he walks to the car just like- he's like swingin' again. And I shot And that's what happened. And then after I shot I didn't see where I shot him at I just pulled around to the front, called the police immediately.... _.told you guys what happened. I was the one that called first
lnterviewer: Det. (Keith Moffett) 06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I200590480 Page I3 541 542 Q: 543 544 A: 545 546 Q: 547 548 549 A: 550 551 Q: 552 553 A: 554 555 Q: 556 557 A: 558 559 560 Q: ~61 62 A: 563 564 Q: 565 566 A: 567 568 Q: 569 570 A: 571 572 Q: 573 574 A: 575 576 Q: 577 578 A: 579 580 581 Q: 582 583 A: 34 585 Q: And pulled in front to the door where the lady told me to wait for my food. All right. Let's back up a little. Um, when you say that his dog walked out in front, was he like co min' across... Yeah, he was co min'...... the front of the, ah... Right. He- he- it's a tight corner. So I'm comin' around. He's like in the rocks on the side of the buildin'. But he - he had the leash. So the first thing I see was the dog. So I mean... What kind of dog was it? Like a big- like I want to say an Akita, or Husky, or somethin' like that. A big brown and white dog. All right. Big dog. So immediately I- I get scared and slam on the brakes immediately. He got somethin' in his hand. He's screamin' at me. What color was the thing in his hand? I t was either- I want to say brown. I'm sorry I got gas. That's all right.
Page 14 586 587 A: 588 589 590 Q: 591 592 A: 593 594 595 Q: 596 597 A: 598 599 Q: 600 601 A: 602 603 Q: 604 605 A: '06 J07 Q: 608 609 A: 610 611 Q: 612 613 A: 614 615 Q: 616 617 A: 618 619 620 Q: 621 622 A: 623 624 Q: 625 626 A: 627 1128 Q: 29 I want to say brown. Urn, I don't quite remember what it was. I just remember it was long. And when he came - when he came like that, I'm like what the fuek is your problem, and I put it in my lap. And... W- where was your gun? My gun... I...... right here. And you cmty... And my gun...... it in a holster there or... I don't carry it in a holster. I don't have it hol- I just have that... Uh-huh.... have no holster for it. How long ago'd you get it? Ah, about the same amount of time she's been here, about seven- seven or eight months. And I only took it (unintelligible) once, and that was a few weeks ago. So... And you always drive with it now?
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 15 630 A: 631 632 633 Q: 634 635 A: 636 637 Q: 638 639 A: 640 641 642 Q: 643 644 A: 645 646 Q: 647 648 A: 649 '50 J51 Q: 652 653 A: 654 655 656 Q: 657 658 A: 659 660 Q: 661 662 A: 663 664 665 Q: 666 667 A: 668 669 Q: 670 671 A: fl72 73 Q: 674 Always drive with it. I always have my li- I actually have a 380. I started off with a 380. It was a- a (Jensen). And the firing pin broke on me. So I took it around to get a firing pin. They told us no, it was a piece of shit (Jensen). Yeah, I've actually seen that before...... on the (J ensens ), yeah. They told me like this gun's a piece- dude, just get you a revolver and get yon a better gun. So black Friday came around. The Sigma was on sale. I dropped some money on a Sigma. So black Friday that's like the- that shopping day right after Thanksgiving? Right after Thanksgiving. But I wasn't able to get it that- that, ah- around that time. But they still had it just for that price. So this was around I wauna say December, January. I haven't had it too long. And you got it at Cabela' s?
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 16 675 A: 676 677 Q: 678 679 A: 680 681 682 Q: 683 684 A: 685 686 Q: 687 688 A: 689 690 Q: 691 692 A: 693 694 ~95 Q:,96 697 A: 698 699 700 ((Crosstalk)) 701 702 Q: 703 704 705 A: 706 707 Q: 708 709 A: 710 711 712 Q: 713 714 A: 715 716 717 Q: 18 They usually have really good prices. Cabela's had an awesome, ah, price on it when I got it. It was about- I want to say it was still 3-309. I think I got it for like 350. I was happy with that. Now had you been havin' problems? No. No? I have no problems. I have no problems with anybody. Like this is just strictly for protection of my family. Right. You haven't been victimized or anything like that where... No, not until tonight. I feel like I was at le- I mean I feel like he was coming... Right. No. But I mean as far as the reason why you were carrying a gun, it wasn't because you have... No. My - my dad came down here, and he told us it was a right to carry state. And he told us that he was out here - when he - he - he - he moved out here like a couple - a month prior to - I mean a couple weeks prior to I did...... because they came out here to check out Arizona first, my mom, him- my mom, my dad, and my brother.
06-07- I 2/2:00 pm Page 17 719 A: 720 721 722 723 724 Q: 725 726 A: 727 728 Q: 729 730 731 A: 732 733 Q: 734 735 A: 736 737 Q: 738 "39 A:.40 741 Q: 742 743 A: 744 745 Q: 746 747 A: 748 749 750 Q: 751 752 A: 753 754 Q: 755 756 A: 757 758 Q: 759 760 A: 761 62 Q: 763 So I didn't know anything about Arizona. When they came out here, they got the little details from their job or whatever. And that was one of the reasons why I liked this state. I was like wow, you get to carry your weapon around with you. That's- you know, that's one of the reasons why I like this state. Sure. Get to go to the gun range. It was just- you know, that was it. Ah, having come from Detroit- and I've never been to Detroit, but I've heard it's like a pretty rough town. Comparatively Phoenix a little easier...... not as rough as Detroit? But it's still the same things go on. I mean it's just... Oh yeah, bad things happen everywhere. It's just - when I first got down here, we stayed in a hotel on Van Buren and 28th Street. Mm. I didn't see it was a difference...... between Detroit and Arizona...... 'cuz when I was outside, I'd hear gunshots. Sure.
Interviewer: Det (Keith Moffett) 06-07 -I2/2: 00 pm Page I8 764 A: 765 766 767 768 Q: 769 770 A: 771 772 Q: 773 774 A: 775 776 Q: 777 778 A: 779 780 781 Q: 782 783 A: '"'84.85 Q: 786 787 788 A: 789 790 Q: 791 792 A: 793 794 795 Q: 796 797 A: 798 799 800 Q: 801 802 A: 803 804 Q: 805 5\06 A: J7 808 Q: I mean not often as Detroit I'm pretty sure, but, you know, it was -but I - I got the first take on it from Van Buren like Detroit. It was - I saw strippers and hookers walkin' up and down the street. I was there for a month...... on the strip so...... I saw everything. So I was - at first I was a little leery about Phoenix. I'm like what the fuck did we move here for? It's the same way in Detroit...... just prettier. Well when the dog walked out and you first saw the dog, urn, did - what - was he on a leash? The dog...... was on a leash. But when he yelled at me, the dog- I couldn't- I couldn't stab off like I wanted too 'cuz the dog was at- at- at the... I don't what you mean, stab off. Like I mean pull off, like, you know what I mean? Like 'cuz you naturally some guy walk up to your car... Uh-huh.... it scares you, you pull off. Right. You know what I mean? Drive away you mean?
Page 19 809 810 A: 811 812 Q: 813 814 A: 815 816 817 Q: 818 819 A: 820 821 822 823 Q: 824 825 A: 826 827 Q: 828 'Q9 A: ~30 831 832 Q: 833 834 A: 835 836 837 838 839 Q: 840 841 A: 842 843 844 Q: 845 846 A: 847 848 Q: 849 850 A: 851 52 Yeah, drive off. Yeah, sure. But where the dog was at, I would've- I would have either hit the dog, or I would've hit the man. Sure. So I couldn't pull off. So all I did was slam on my brakes. And I - and I pulled out and got cautious and made sure that he wasn't trying to come in more. I saw he was trying to come at. Uh-huh. That's when I fired. What did he say to you? He said what the fuck is your problem? Are you- are you crazy or somethin'? I'm thinkin' to myself like what the fuck is your problem? Because he's coming through the drive through. He's coming towards the cars. There's no- from my understanding there's no walkway through where he was - where - where he was trying to go. So he only could be comin' outcom in' back there towards the cars. I'm thinking, I'm trying- he's about to rob us, something. I'm fearin' for mymy baby mom right here with my child. That's my main priority. So that's why I did what I did. I didn't know what this guy was capable of or what he was gonna do in that small corner.
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) Page 20 853 Q: 854 855 856 A: 857 858 Q: 859 860 861 A: 862 863 864 Q: 865 866 A: 867 868 Q: 869 870 A: 871 872 "-73 "74 875 876 Q: 877 878 A: 879 880 Q: 881 882 A: 883 884 Q: 885 886 A: 887 888 Q: 889 890 A: 891 892 Q: 893 894 A: 1>95 96 Q: 897 Right. From the time that you saw that dog start to come out and you had to step on your brakes...... to the time that he came up to the car and- and the shooting occurred, how long do you think all that took? Ah, it's a matter of seconds. It- it's- that's- the way I'm explaining it is- is slower than what - how it happened. So it happened happened, It happened fast.... faster than it takes to explain it. Yeah, it happened way faster than that because the dog came out. I slammed on the brakes. He - he screamed - he screams at me what the fuck is your problem or something like that. And after that he was coming towards the car, bo-boom. Just like that. My gun was already ready. I just pulled it off of my hand. Um, but you couldn't really tell what he had in his hand? I saw it was a bat or somethin'. But you couldn't tell exactly what color it was? Couldn't tell. I'm - I'm pretty sure it was brown. When you say a bat, do you mean like a baseball bat? Not particularly, but in that type of shape and fonn. Long, like... Could you tell what it was made out of? No, sir. It happened that fast. Um, and then how many times did you shoot him?
Interviewer: Det (Keith Moffett) 06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 21 898 A: 899 900 Q: 901 902 A: 903 904 Q: 905 906 A: 907 908 909 910 Q: 911 912 A: 913 914 915 Q: 916 917 A: '118 19 920 Q: 921 922 A: 923 924 925 Q: 926 927 A: 928 929 930 Q: 931 932 A: 933 934 Q: 935 936 A: 937 938 Q: 939 940 41 942 A: Just once. Just once? Just once. And then where did he go? I don't know. But he- he said owe. He said owe. And I- I immediately at the door was- at the, ah- I want to say he walks towards- towards goin' back that way. Because I - I went on ahead and pulled around. I thought I was out the elcar. I was trying to get the hell out the way. 'Cuz I didn't know -like I said, I didn't know what he was capable of, what he had on him, or what he was trying to do back there. Right. So I went on ahead, pulled around to the front exactly where the lady to pull at, waited for my food, and called the police. Before I could even pull - ah, park all the way I was on the phone with you guys...... explaining to you what happened. Urn, so when you fired the shot, you meant to shoot him. Yes. Ah, where was- I'm just trying to figure out-- again 'cuz I wasn't there it's hard for me to picture-- he- he was at the- right next to your driver's door? Yeah, at the window.
Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page 22 943 944 Q: 945 946 A: 947 948 Q: 949 950 A: 951 952 953 Q: 954 955 A: 956 957 Q: 958 959 A: 960 961 Q: 962 '163 A:,64 965 Q: 966 967 A: 968 969 Q: 970 971 A: 972 973 Q: 974 975 A: 976 977 Q: 978 979 A: 980 981 Q: 982 983 A: 984 985 S6 Q: 987 Right at the driver's window. Yeah, when- when you tum that cor- it's so narrow around that comer... I wish I can just take you back there. I mean his - the road - little piece of the sidewalk where the rocks gonna be at the building...... comer of the building, right here. So you'd already- you'd already left the drive through window and you... Drivin' at the window...... moved forward... And I moved forward... To...... attempting to tum. Right. I'm in the midst of a tum. And it was right at the comer of the building. Right at the comer as I turned. I couldn't even complete the full tum yet...... before this dude was at my window. Like he was comin' around the comer same time I was. So...
Page 23 988 A: 989 990 991 992 Q: 993 994 A: 995 996 Q: 997 998 A: 999 1000 Q: 1001 1002 1003 A: 1004 1005 Q: 1006 1007 A: '"08 J09 Q: 1010 loll A: 1012 1013 Q: 1014 1015 A: 1016 1017 Q: 1018 1019 A: 1020 1021 Q: 1022 1023 A: 1024 1025 Q: 1026 1027 A: 1028 1029 Q: 1030 31 A: 1032 And that leash was - the dog was already in the street. When I had made that corner, the dog's right there. That's when he came what the fuck is your problem, holdin' the...... the weapon in his hand. I'm like dude. So, urn, you didn't drive off at that point. What you mean? Well if you've got somebody here, obviously you have a couple options at that point. You said that you had to stop because... The dog was here.... the dog. I couldn't attempt to keep drivin' 'cuz dog was in front of me. Right. The dog was blockin' - blockin' the car. The man was still on the side on the rocks. But you know he got the leash. Right. So that's out...... you know what I mean, a little bit farther from him. So the dog was in front of the car.
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I200590480 Page 24 1033 1034 Q: 1035 1036 A: 1037 1038 1039 Q: 1040 1041 A: 1042 1043 Q: 1044 1045 A: 1046 1047 Q: 1048 1049 A: 1050 1051 Q: 1052 ''153 A: J54 1055 Q: 1056 1057 A: 1058 1059 1060 Q: 1061 1062 1063 A: 1064 1065 Q: 1066 1067 A: 1068 1069 Q: 1070 1071 A: 1072 1073 1074 1075 Q:,76 1077 A: He's by the window. So I couldn't move until after the shot was fired, and he moved. The dog moved then? And you - and you... And- and then the dog moved. He still had the dog. Did you have a chance to - to make a decision as to... I didn't look.... whether... I didn't do anything....i could shoot this guy or I could hit his dog, I'm gonna shoot him? It wasn't- it wasn't no type of- I couldn't even- I wouldn't even a got to his dog less I shot through my windshield. And you felt even in that brief period of time - what - what - what were you thinkin' when this... The second swing that was comin' at me was comin' towards my face. The second swing? There... Yes.... were two swings? The first swing was when - when he - when he was, ah - when I was comin' around, and I hit the brakes and said, dude, and he swung. But it- that wasn't -I'm sure that wasn't towards me. He just swung. You know, it was... Uh-huh.... a atr swmg.
Interviewer: Oct. (Keith Moffett) Page 25 1078 1079 Q: 1080 1081 A: 1082 1083 1084 Q: 1085 1086 A: 1087 1088 I089 Q: 1090 1091 A: 1092 1093 Q: 1094 1095 A: 1096 1097 Q: ' '198 A9 A: 1100 I I 01 Q: 1102 1103 A: 1104 1105 Q: 1106 1107 A: 1108 1109 Q: 1110 1111 A: 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 Q: 1117 1118 A: 1119 1120 Q: 21 1122 A: You know what I mean? I'm son-y. I got gas, man. I'm lettin' 'em go over here. Do what you gotta do. I'm just lettin' you know. But it was like a- it was a air swing. The next one, he was already at the window. Uh-huh. So the next one was coming towards me. Did he hit you with it? No. He swung. Did he hit anything with it? The car I believe. He hit the car? I believe he hit the car. Um, like right by... The window. My window's like this. Thing like it hit the- the door like it could have went through the- you know what I mean? Like if he- if he would've swung in, the pole or whatever he had would've hit me. But it hit the door. It got caught by the- the window. So... You know what I mean? Did it break the window? I didn't see your ear after. No, the window was o- the window was down.
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 26 1123 1124 Q: 1125 1126 A: 1127 1128 Q: 1129 1130 A: 1131 1132 Q: 1133 1134 A: 1135 1136 Q: 1137 1138 A: 1139 1140 Q: 1141 1142 A: ''43.44 Q: 1145 1146 A: 1147 1148 1149 1150 Q: 1151 1152 A: 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 Q: 1158 1159 A: 1160 1161 Q: 1162 1163 A: 1164 1165 Q: 56 1167 A: Ohokay. But I mean it just boom, you know what I mean, hit the door basically... Uh-huh.... where the window would be at. So it was too long to go through the way he was... Sure.... swackin' it. It was too long to go through the window. You know what I mean? Um, what was, ah, Ronisha doin' when this was goin' on? She was just in the car. And when I slammed on the brakes, she was like, you know, doin' her little texting thing. And she jumped up (unintelligible), and that was it from her...... until I proceeded to tum the comer. I told her to call the police and call it off her phone. And when she was dialin' the number, I was pulling around to the front of the building. I parked. She gave me the phone. I told you guys what happened. Ah, did you see where he went? Maybe I already asked you this. But no. You didn't see anything? I didn't see him fall... You just did the...... or anything. After I shot, I was in the clear to pull o- pull around...
interview OF CORDELL JUDE 06-07- I 2/2:00 pm Case lidr20 I 200590480 Page 27 1168 1169 Q: 1170 1171 A: 1172 1173 1174 Q: 1175 1176 1177 A: 1178 1179 Q: 1180 1181 A: 1182 1183 i 184 1185 Q: 1186 1187 A: 1 188.89 Q: 1190 1 j 91 1192 A: 1193 1194 Q: 1195 1196 A: 1197 1198 1199 Q: 1200 1201 A: 1202 1203 Q: 1204 1205 A: 1206 1207 Q: 1208 1209 A: 1~10 11 Q: 1212... l pulled around. I didn't m, m, no thin'. l just slowly pulled around to the front, called the police. Had somebody told you before I did that he actually died from that gunshot wound? No. Yeah, he - he's dead. l didn't mean for him to die, nothing like that. I was just fcarin' for my life, man. I only shot one time. It was no reckless shootin' or anything like that. It was totally for my protection. U m, did he say anything else other than initial thing that he said to you? No. Well let's talk about somethin' else. Let's talk about, ah, I see you got the 313 on your ann there. Yeah, that's the area code for Michigan. Yeah, yeah. What else - what other kind of ink you got there, dude? Oh fhis is my neighborhood, 658. It's where I grew up at. It's a cross. I'm gettin' my!,'fandmother's name RIP up under it, I just got. Did you just lose your grandma? Yeah, not too long ago, both of'em actually. I'm sony to hear that. That's just, you know, Detroit with a crown over it, the English name. What's the crown? That's just, you know, kings of Detroit, you know... Ah...
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Page 28 1213 A: 1214 1215 Q: 1216 1217 A: 1218 1219 Q: 1220 1221 A: 1222 1223 Q: 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 A: 1230 1231 Q: 1232-1 33 A:.34 1235 Q: 1236 1237 1238 1239 A: 1240 1241 Q: 1242 1243 1244 A: 1245 1246 Q: 1247 1248 A: 1249 1250 Q: 1251 1252 1253 A: 1254 1?55 Q: 56 1257 A:... a little somethin'. Gotcha. I got that - I got this when I first - before I even moved out here. Urn, tell you what. Let me, ah, go make a phone call real quick. We still got officers out there that are lookin' at everything. Urn, I'm probably gonna have some more questions for you. I don't know if anybody's looked at your car yet. I obviously want to take a look at your car. Do you need anything right now? I just don't wanna go to jail, man. I got kids to feed.!...!... Like I said, the- the fact that I read you your rights, that's just because I don't know what you're gonna tell me. I don't know if you're gonna tell me hey, I didn't like the way he looked, so I decided to shoot him in the face. You know? So I'd rather do that beforehand and get that out of the way. So like I said, let me make a phone call. He got shot in his face? No, no, no, no. Oh. I'm saying if- if- if that was the situation. All right. Do you need anything? You doin' all right? All right. Just hang tight for me. Can I get a cigarette, if you got it? Don't. Sorry. You still awake, Cordell? Yes, sir.
Page 29 1258 1259 Q: 1260 1261 A: 1262 1263 Q: 1264 1265 1266 1267 A: 1268 1269 Q: 1270 1271 A: 1272 1273 Q: 1274 1275 A: 1276 1277 -"78 Q: _79 1280 A: 1281 1282 Q: 1283 1284 A: 1285 1286 Q: 1287 1288 1289 A: 1290 1291 Q: 1292 1293 A: 1294 1295 Q: 1296 1297 A: 1298 1299 Q: "00 01 1302 A: Hey, um, how good of an artist are you? Hopefully better than me. I'm the worst at writin' period, man. Well what I'd like you to do just so I get an idea of exactly where you were and where dude was and all that, could you draw me like a little diagram of the Taco Bell and the drive through there? Curve's here. I wanna say the curve is approximately here. So the drive through window... Is right here. I ordered my food, came around to about here. That's when him and the dog was comin' at - to the car where it was already approximately, ah, right here. And this is all driveway here? Yes, it's all driveway, yeah. And- and this- this kinda box that you've drawn... This is the front of the Taco Bell. So this is the Taco Bell. This kinda square, that's the Taco Bell building? Yeah, that's the Taco Bell. This the drive through here. This the drive through right here. An- anything else? Um... I'm bad at drawing. So - yeah. Um, so you - you - you do your order probably somewhere over there.
06-07-I2/2:00 pm Case #DR20 I200590480 Page 30 1303 1304 Q: 1305 1306 A: 1307 1308 Q: 1309 1310 A: 1311 1312 Q: 1313 1314 A: 1315 1316 Q: 1317 1318 A: 1319 1320 Q: 1321 1322 A: -~23 ~24 Q: 1325 1326 1327 A: 1328 1329 Q: 1330 1331 A: 1332 1333 Q: 1334 1335 A: 1336 1337 Q: 1338 1339 A: 1340 1341 Q: 1342 1343 A: 1344 '145 46 Q: 1347 You come up to the window They say okay, hey go ahead and drive around front.,, And we'll bring your food out... which is way over here. Yup. And so you're just past the comer of that building there. Just at the corner. Just at the comer. Is your car angled the way you've got your arrow there? The car tip of it may be about right here. Draw a little car there, if you could, just like a - a rectangle for the car. TI1at' s about where we was at..... just the nose just barely turning the comer. All right And then the dog came out in front Dog came out in front, and the man was already at the window. And do you remember- the dog was on a leash. Right? Um, do you remember what hand he had the dog's leash in? That's the fuing fuat- that's killing me 'cuz I don't know if he was holdin' the dog like this... Uh-huh.
lntervicwer: Det. (Keith Moffett) Page 31 1348 A: 1349 1350 Q: 1351 1352 A: 1353 1354 Q: 1355 1356 A: 1357 1358 Q: 1359 1360 1361 A: 1362 1363 Q: 1364 1365 A: 1366 1367 Q: -'68 69 A: 1370 1371 Q: 1372 1373 A: 1374 1375 1376 Q: 1377 1378 A: 1379 1380 1381 Q: 1382 1383 A: 1384 1385 Q: 1386 1387 A: 1388 1389 Q: 1190 Jl A: 1392... had it in - in this hand... Uh-huh.... or if it was like this. I'm not sure. You can't remember. I can't remember. I'm honest- being honest with you. I can't remember. Could you - I know we talked about you - you described it as a bat, but you couldn't... It was a brown - yeah. Somethin' brown? Somethin' like that. Could you show me like how long it was with your hands? I'm not completely sure, but it was... Just give me an estimate. I want to say it was long enough that, if you try to stick it in this way, it wasn't gonna go through my window. But if you - like a pool stick -- you know what I mean? If you poked it that way, it would have went through my window. Was it bigger around than a pool stick, or was it smaller than a pool stick? I would say it - it was probably a little bit thicker than a pool stick. I'm about to say a little bit... So you just showed me with your hands... Like about this long.
lnterviewer: Det. (Keith Moffett) Page 32 1393 Q: 1394 1395 A: 1396 1397 Q: 1398 1399 A: 1400 1401 Q: 1402 1403 A: 1404 1405 Q: 1406 1407 A: 1408 1409 Q: 1410 1411 1412 A: - 1J3,14 Q: 1415 1416 1417 A: 1418 1419 Q: 1420 1421 A: 1422 1423 Q: 1424 1425 A: 1426 1427 Q: 1428 1429 1430 1431 1432 1433 A: 1434 1435 Q: 36 So that's- that's over 2 feet. I mean that's almost- that's about 3 feet long. That's what I believe, it was about that long. And about... And this is just an estimate. I'm not... Yeah, yeah, I understand. I don't want to, you know... Right.... give you the wrong kinda idea. That's the thing. Well - well one of the things I'm doing is - is I called back to the officers out there on the scene. And I told 'em hey, we're lookin' for somethin'. And I tried to describe what you're tellin' me. And I just want to give them the best possible information I can give them. Well the - I believe it was a witness right behind me who saw it too. So I - I - I guarantee he saw him swing somethin' at me. But - but I talked to the officers that interviewed him. And from what he said it didn't sound like he was of the opinion that your life was in danger at any point. And you are the one who felt that your life was in danger. So I'm thinking that you probably have a better idea of what that guy was swingin' than the other guy. I don't know what it- what it was he was swingin'.
IntervicW(;,'f: Det (Keith Moffett) Page 33 1437 A: 1438 1439 1440 Q: 1441 1442 A: 1443 1444 Q: 1445 1446 A: 1447 1448 Q: 1449 1450 1451 A: 1452 1453 Q: 1454 1455 1456 A: - '57.,58 1459 Q: 1460 1461 A: 1462 1463 1464 1465 Q: 1466 1467 1468 1469 1470 A: 1471 1472 Q: 1473 1474 A: 1475 1476 Q: 1477 1478 A: 1 ~79 30 Q: 1481 All I know is that at that point in time coming around that comer it's a scary moment for a guy to come up to your car and swing somethin' at you. Sure. Know what I mean? Oh absolutely. That's what... There's no doubt in my mind that- that this was a startling event for you. Yeah, man. That's what I'm sayin'. Um, but I'll be honest with you. It- it doesn't look to me that either your life or your girlfriend's life was in danger at any point during this thing. I believe it was, sir. If I would've got hit with that- with that object, whowho knows what would've happened after that. If I had been unconscious, he could've took the car and could have done anything he wanted with my girl. Just like what was the guy do in' around that comer? And Cordell, I guess that's the other thing that I- I'm trippin' up on. 'Cuz like I said, I've talked to the officers, and I've described to them exactly what we're lookin' for out there or anything similar to that, and they're not findin' anything anywhere around there. So they said they didn't find anything? No, not at all. So what did the witness see? I'm asking you. Are you - like I said... What did the...... you're- you're the one who...
Case #DR20 I 200590480 Page 34 1482 A: 1483 1484 Q: 1485 1486 A: 1487 1488 Q: 1489 1490 A: 1491 1492 Q: 1493 1494 A: 1495 1496 1497 Q: 1498 1499 1500 1501 - "02 A: J03 1504 ((Crosstalk)) 1505 1506 Q: 1507 1508 A: 1509 1510 Q: 1511 1512 A: 1513 1514 Q: 1515 1516 A: 1517 1518 Q: 1519 1520 A: 1521 1522 Q: 1523 1~24 A: 25 1526 The witness saw the same thing. It was he swung somethin'. Right. It was somethin' swung at me. Uh-huh. I'm not- I can't explain to you perfectly obviously what the object was, but it hit the car. Well- well let me ask you this. Urn, and I don't know 'cuz I wasn't out there. I know he had a leash. Like how long was the leash that that dog was on? It was long enough for that dog to get out in front of your car while he was at the... It was pretty long. I don't- can't get a you know...... So long enough like the dog could have been there over by the door? From here? No. Maybe could've been... How 'bout from where I'm at to the door? Arm's- arm length out all the way, probably so, yeah. Maybe a little farther. Do you know what color the leash was? Not- again not- I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it was I'm gonna say brown. I'm not sure.
06-07- 12/2:00 pm Page 35 1527 Q: 1528 1529 1530 A: 1531 1532 Q: 1533 1534 A: 1535 1536 Q: 1537 1538 A: 1539 1540 Q: 1541 1542 A: 1543 1544 Q: 1545 1546 A: '"47 A8 Q: 1549 1550 A: 1551 1552 Q: 1553 1554 A: 1555 1556 Q: 1557 1558 1559 A: 1560 1561 1562 Q: 1563 1564 A: 1565 1566 Q: 1567 1568 A: 1')69 70 Q: 1571 I also had the opportunity to listen to your 911 tape. Urn, when you called, you said that he took a swing at you. Yes. But you didn't say anything about a bat to the, urn... That's 'cuz that was discussin' what he swung with. I understand that. You know what I mean? I understand. That's the point I was- I was- I was meanin'. I understand that. And I said a object. Even...... she was yellin' into the phone sa yin' it was a bat, or a pole, or somethin'. I thought she was textin' when all that was goin' on. I'm talkin' about as I was talkin' to the police. Right, right. But I- I thought when we were talkin' about what she saw, that she was down textin'. Yeah, that at that - that point. But I'm talkin' about as the - as you said, as I was on the phone call. I was already initially coming around the... Right.... parking spot, so... The point I'm making, Cordell, is that you're- you're- you're my best witness on what go- was goin' on out there.
Interviewer: DeL (Keith Moffett) Page 36 1572 1573 A: 1574 1575 Q: 1576 1577 A: 1578 1579 1580 Q: 1581 1582 A: 1583 1584 Q: 1585 1586 A: 1587 1588 Q: 1589 1590 A: 1591 - ~92 Q:,93 1594 A: 1595 1596 1597 Q: 1598 1599 A: 1600 1601 Q: 1602 1603 A: 1604 1605 1606 Q: 1607 1608 A: 1609 1610 Q: 1611 1612 1613 11) 14 IS A: 1616 He was closest to you. He was interacting with you. No, when she - when - when I turned the comer, sh- the dude scared both of us. Sure. He was loud. So she saw, you know what I mean, everything. She wasn't still textin' as he was- as we was interacting. You know what I mean? But what I'm sayin' is as we was comin' past thethe whole time we was at the window she was textin'. Right. The whole time pullin' up, she was textin'. The dude, he startled both of us. You know what I mean? So of course she wasn't textin' and doin' anything then. And I used her phone to eall 911. So- and missin' me tum- makin' that full complete turn, she was dialin' 911. Well again let - let me just reiterate what I said before. There wasn't any bat out there. Okay? And I understand in the heat of the moment, you know, that he swung. A- a- and I'm sure that that happened. I mean I've got you sa yin' that. Right.
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) Page 37 1617 Q: 1618 1619 1620 ((Crosstalk)) 1621 1622 Q: 1623 1624 1625 A: 1626 1627 1628 1629 Q: 1630 1631 1632 A: 1633 1634 Q: 1635 1636 A: <)7,38 Q: 1639 1640 A: 1641 1642 Q: 1643 1644 A: 1645 1646 1647 Q: 1648 1649 A: 1650 1651 1652 1653 Q: 1654 1655 A: 1656 1657 Q: 1658 1fi59 A: 50 I've got her sayin' that. I've got the witness sa yin' that. But there wasn't a bat. And again I don't feel...... at any point that your guys' lives were in danger. And I'm just trying to- I need you to go back. 'Cuz like I said, the officers that responded... He didn't have anything in his hands? So what did he swing at me, the leash? I- I don't get it. Somethin' -he swung something at me and hit the car. I mean, sir, I wasn't even... But we also looked at your car, and there's absolutely no damage on your car around the driver's side. I mean are you sure he didn't - it wasn't like that? It was - he... Well you - you - you described it as a swing that put you in fear for you life. And like I told you, sir, I'm coming around the corner. Uh-huh. The shock of the moment. Sure. You know what I mean? This guy's walkin' up towards us yelling and screamin' swingin' somethin'. You know what I mean? Yes, I'm fear for my life in this dark corner. For all I know it could have been some- he could've had two other guys around there just waitin' for us. I don't know what's goin' on. I could... But- but the... It could've been a carjackin' or anything.
Interviewer: Det (Keith Moffett) Page 38 1661 Q: 1662 1663 1664 A: 1665 1666 Q: 1667 1668 A: 1669 1670 Q: 1671 1672 A: 1673 1674 Q: 1675 1676 1677 A: 1678 1679 Q: 1680 ''>81,82 A: 1683 1684 Q: 1685 1686 A: 1687 1688 1689 Q: 1690 1691 A: 1692 1693 Q: 1694 1695 A: 1696 1697 Q: 1698 1699 A: 1700 1701 1702 Q: 1703 J4 1705 But he didn't say it was a carjacking. There weren't too other guys waitin' there. I mean we can't- we can't play, you know... No, but it's just it... It could have been AI Qaeda... Right.... but it wasn't. You know? Right. And I don't think anybody reasonable would think that- that those things were goin' on. I understand you were startled, Cordell. I mean there's no doubt in my mind that this surprised you. But there's just no bat out there, bud. I promise you he swung at me. I'm sorry? I said I promise you it was somethin' swung at me. I don't know if it was, ah, necessarily a bat per se, but he had a object in his hand. Well there's- there's no- see... You guys might want to check around on the other side or somethin'. We've been lookin' all over. Maybe he threw it or whatever. We've been lookin' all over, bud. But I wouldn't lie to you, my passenger wouldn't lie. It was somethin' swung at the ear. Well what do you think? Based on what I'm telling you right now that there is nothing out there - we've checked all the rocks around there. We've checked all the way around. The police were on the scene approximately a minute after you made your call. There were other witnesses that were stuck
Page 39 1706 1707 1708 1709 A: 1710 1711 Q: 1712 1713 A: 1714 1715 1716 1717 Q: 1718 1719 A: 1720 1721 Q: 1722 1723 A: 1724 1725 Q: '726 27 A: 1728 1729 1730 1731 Q: 1732 1733 A: 1734 1735 Q: 1736 1737 A: 1738 1739 1740 Q: 1741 1742 A: 1743 1744 1745 Q: 1746 1747 A: 1748 49 1750 Q: in drive through that had their eyes on what was goin' on the whole time. It's not like anybody else came up there... No.... and took somethin' away. What... I didn't - I didn't see him come around or anything. Maybe in the heat of the moment I thought it was somethin'. But I just remember him swingin'. He swung somethin' at me. That's bullshit. Somethin' hit that car. No, no, it... I heard it and saw it. Again I think we're all on the same page, that - that there was a swing. I can't... I'm - I'm asking you if you can think of... My hands are tied, sir. I'm telling you from what I seen and what I know. I I wouldn't make nothin' -I mean I wouldn't make this story up. Like I have no reason to shoot no guy for no reason I don't know. Right. And again like, Cordell, I... Ah, you can tell I'm not a hot head young kid or anything. I work every day. I was just feedin' my girl. The guy startled me. He swung somethin' at me. I fired off. That's exactly how it happened. I promise you, sir, promise you something swung at me. Something hit that car. Right. A- and that's what I'm trying to get at is, if you could... I can't give you exactly what it was. I couldn't even tell you how the guy looked.
Page 40 1751 1752 A: 1753 1754 Q: 1755 1756 A: 1757 1758 1759 Q: 1760 1761 A: 1762 1763 Q: 1764 1765 A: 1766 1767 Q: 1768 1769 A: 1770 '"71 Q:.72 1773 A: 1774 1775 1776 Q: 1777 1778 A: 1779 1780 Q: 1781 1782 A: 1783 1784 1785 1786 1787 1788 Q: 1789 1790 A: 1791 1792 1 793 )4 Q: 1795 I could tell you that he wasn't black. But I don't know if he was- was he Mexican or white. Lighter than me, about your complexion. I can't tell you - I can't even remember what color shirt he had on, sir. It - you said it happened... It happened that fast. It happened that fast. I didn't see him fall or anything. Right. When I got all the way around the comer, I - I looked back to see if it was like a entrance way you could walk out. Maybe he was walkin' straight out. Right. I didn't see anything. You know what I mean? So now I'm really thinking this guy was tryin' to rob me or he was trying to do somethin'. He was trying to do somethin'. He hit the car. What the hell was he doin' out here with his dog? Like what was goin' on? What was going on to his head? That's- this is after the fact I was thinkin'. And I feel like I did what I had to do 'cuz ifl didn't do that, if!- if! wouldn't a did that, I could have get hit with that object or hit with his t1st. Either way it go, he swung.
Interviewer: Dct. (Keith Moffett) Page 41 1796 A: 1797 1798 Q: 1799 1800 1801 1802 1803 A: 1804 1805 Q: 1806 1807 A: 1808 1809 Q: 1810 1811 A: 1812 1813 Q: 1814 1815 A: 'Q16 J17 Q: 1818 1819 A: 1820 1821 1822 Q: 1823 1824 A: 1825 1826 1827 1828 Q: 1829 1830 A: 1831 1832 Q: 1833 1834 A: 1835 1836 Q: 1837 1 ~38 A: 39 1840 Q: You know what I mem1? Well you - you - you are - you are allowed to protect yourself. But, urn, you know, if somebody tries to punch you, you know, is it reasonable to shoot somebody? Or if somebody swings something, is it reasonable to shoot somebody? And I wasn't there. And that's... No, but...... what I'm trying to figure out, Cordell.... when I saw something in his hand, sir...... my first intentions was to pull out. And I had it there on my lap in plain sight. He came at me again. When you say it was in plain sight, was that something... Had it on my lap. Like I was pretty sure - I pulled it back, and he saw and heard it. And he still attempted to swing at me. Ah, do you think he saw your gun? I'm sure, if he didn't see it, he had sure positively heard it cock back 'cuz it wasn't already pulled back. I said it was before, but it wasn't. I remember I pulled - I pulled it back. Oh you - you racked the gun? I racked it back. It wasn't racked. I racked it back. Do you... I'm pretty- I -he had to hear it. It- it racks back pretty loud. The... And I pulled it up. He saw me. He- again...
Page 42 1841 1842 A: 1843 1844 Q: 1845 1846 A: 1847 1848 1849 1850 1851 1852 Q: 1853 1854 A: 1855 1856 Q: 1857 1858 A: 1859 1860 Q: "'61. v62 A: 1863 1864 Q: 1865 1866 A: 1867 1868 Q: 1869 1870 A: 1871 1872 Q: 1873 1874 A: 1875 1876 1877 Q: 1878 1879 A: 1880 1881 Q: 1882 1 1l83 A: 84 1885 Q: That's when I fired off. Let me - let me back up. I wouldn't a never even got- never- I wouldn't have even give him the chance. My- my whole thing is after- when the dog came in front of my car and he swung, when the - when the first swing, the air swing came or whatever, my intentions was what the fuck is wrong with this dude? Okay go ahead and get out my way so I can pull up. You know what I mean? Until he did it again. Now that's when I fired on him. Le-let me back up. Urn, show me again exactly where you carried your gun. Right here. Just tucked into your waistband? Just tucked into my waistband. And you carry that gun with an empty chamber? Empty chamber. And that's the way you always carry it. That depends on where I'm goin'. Like I work at 5- I gotta be at work at 5-5:30 in the morning. So I usually walk out my house about around 4:30, 4:15. So I rack it before I leave. So you- e- every day you're like loadin' it, unloadin' it. Every day... Loadin' it, unloadin' it.