Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #:0 EXCERPTED EXHIBIT
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: IN THE UN I TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT NORTHERN DI STRICT OF I LLINOI S EASTERN DI VISI ON Page SHE I LA ALLEN, i ndivi dually) and on behalf of all others) similarly situated, Plaintiff, - vs- No. CV 0 JP MORGAN CHASE BANK, N. A., ) Defendan t. The deposition of ROBERT BURACK, called by the Plaintiff f or exami nati on, pursuant t o notice and pursuant to t h e Feder al Rules of Ci vil Procedure for the United St ates District Courts pertaining to the t aking of deposi tions, taken before Aneesha L. Williams, Cer tifie d Shorthand Repor ter, for the County of Cook and State of Illinois, at Wes t Monroe, Sui te 0, Chicago, Illino i s, commencing at the hour of : 00 p.m., and ending at : p. m. on the 0th day o f September, A. O.,. Maxene Weinberg Agency (00) 0-
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: I II I Page APPEARANCES: (Witness sworn.) KEOGH LAW, LTD., by ROBERT BURACK, MR. KEITH J. KEOGH called as a witness herein, having been first West Monroe Boulevard, Suite 0 Chicago, Illinois 00 duly sworn, was examined and testified as () - follows: keith@keoghlaw.com EXAMINATION On behalf of the Plaintiff; BY MR. KEOGH: MR. WADE HOW ARD Q. Sir, can you please state and spell 0 Fennin Street, Suite 0 your name for the record? Houston, Texas 00 () - A. Robert Burack, B-U-R-A-C-K. wthoward@liskow.com Q. Mr. Burack, have you ever been On behalf of the Objector, deposed before? Robert Burack; A. Yes. STROOCK & STROOCK & LA VAN, LLP, by Q. When was the last time? MR. HAKOP STEPANYAN A. Six months ago. Century Park East, th Floor Los Angeles, California 00 Q. So you're familiar with the () -00 scenario where I ask you q uestions and I need hstepanyan@stroock.com an a udible answer because the court reporter is going to take it down, correct? A. Yes. Q. But if you answer, I'll assume you understood it. Is that fair? A. Yes. o. If you don't u nderstand a auestion Page Page Page I NDEX if I talk too fast, ask me to rephrase it, WITNESS PAGE slow down, and I,viii. Is that fair? ROBERT BURACK A. Yes. EXAMJNA TTON Q. Can you give me your present address? BY MR. KEOGH... A. Waverly Lane, W-A-V-E-R-L-Y, Lane, Highland Park, Illinois, 00. BY MR. STEPANY AN... Q. How long have you resided at that address? A. Approximately, six years. E XH I B I TS ROBERT BURACK A. No. DEPOSITION EXHIBIT MARKED FOR ID Q. Are you taking any medications or No. I...... No.... No.... Q. Do you have any plans to move any time soon? (00) 0- under the influence of any narcotic that would impair your ability to testify today? A. No. Q. Another standard background question. Have you ever been convicted of a crime involving dishonesty or a felony? A. No. Q. And what is your current occupation? A. Home care management. (Pages to )
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: Q. What do you mean by that? A. I help manage a home care company. Q. And home care, is that like a nursing facility or - A. Caregivers. Q. And what is your position in that? A. Management. Q. Do you have any ownership interest? A. No. Q. What's the name of the company? A. Freedom Home Care. Page Q. And how long have you been so employed? A. I'm not paid. Q. Then do you have other compensation besides getting paid? A. No. Q. So you don't have ownership, you're management, but you don't get paid? A. Correct. Q. Then why do you do it? A. For my wife. Q. And what's her position in the comoanv? Page? A. Owner. Q. What's the name of the company? A. Freedom Home Care. Q. And what's the address for Freedom Home Care? A. Green Bay Road, Highland Park, Illinois. Q. How many employees does it have? A. Clarify that. Q. How many employees does Freedom Home Care have? A. At Green Bay Road. Q. Anywhere. A. Anywhere. Full-time? Q. Either part-time, full-time. A., approximately. Q. Is it classified as a minority-owned, woman-owned company? A. I don't think so. MR. KEOGH: For the people on the phone, can you identify yourself for the court reporter? MR. STEPANYAN: Sure. My name is Hak Steoanvan. I'm with Stroock Stroock & Lavan on behalf of J.P. Morgan Chase. BY MR. KEOGH: Q. Now, Mr. Burack, what is your understanding of what the lawsuit Allen versus Chase is about? A. There were unsolicited -- There was robo calls made to people that probably owed money or probably foreclosed, many people that probably did owe money to Chase Bank Page that had auto loans. Q. You can go on. A. And they're not supposed to contact people through the robo system of calling people. Q. Okay. And do you understand that's a claim under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act? A. I think I've heard that before. I Q. Have you heard of that before this lawsuit? A. I think so. Q. Do you know so or do you think so? A. I think SO. O. Have vou ever sued anvbodv or made a claim under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act before? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. Have you ever gotten robo calls before on your cell phone? A. Yes. Page Q. Why didn't you sue those companies under the TCPA, which is short for Telephone Consumer Protection Act? A. I'm not aware of it. Q. Not aware of what? A. TCPA. Q. So you didn't sue people in the past because you were unaware of the TCPA? A. I just don't go around just suing people to sue people. Q. If you wouldn't have gotten a class notice from Chase in this case, would you have ever filed a claim against Chase under the TCPA? A. For this instance you're saying? Q. Yes, for the calls you received from Chase. A. I don't know. I don't think so (Pages to ) (00) 0-
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: Page Page l l Q. How many times do you contend C hase can think of is was when Chase bought out -- called your cell phone? Was it Washington Mutual or something like A. First of all, the number I gave that? Which was a mortgage, no consumer you, it could be that number or either the loan, like, an auto or a line of credit, that previous number. I don't recall the number I'm aware of. It could have been something right now, so I'm not positive about that else, but I'm not aware of it right now. number, just to answer your general question. Q. Well, these maybe a dozen - I Q. So let's clarify. Thank you. understand that was an estimate, so I'm not You 're not sure if they called this going to hold you to,000. But whatever number, but you had another number and -- number of calls were to your cell phone, walk A. Over the past, years, I've hd me through those calls. What did they say? two or three numbers. What did they ask for, if anything? Q. Do you recall what the other A. I don't know, and most of it I numbers are? probably just erased. They were just A. I'm blank right now. annoymg. Q. And is it fair to say that you Q. Well, do you know was it a person think Chase called one of those numbers? on the line, or was it a prerecorded message? A. Yes. A. I don't recall. Q. You're just not sure which one, Q. Why was it a nnoying? right? A. Well, you don't owe money and A. Correct. somebody keeps calling you, it becomes a Q. How many times did they call any of little annoying. your cell phone numbers? Q. Well, do you know were they cal.ling A. It's a QUess. It wasn't recent. vou for monev or were thev callin: vou for Page Page like. This was earlier, years ago. l surveys or do you have any idea? maybe a dozen times. It's a guess. A. I thought it was regarding a debt, Q. Okay. So a dozen times years ago. but I'm not positive. And how do you believe Chase got your cell Q. Is that based upon your phone number to call? understanding of the lawsuit or based upon A. No idea. your memory of what the calls were? Q. Do you recall giving Chase that A. Just memory. number and telling them it's a good number to Q. Did you ever call Chase and call? complain about these calls? A. No. A. I'm not sure. Q. Do you recall one way or the other, l l Q. Did your wife have any auto loans or you just don't know? with Chase? A. I don't recall giving them my A. Not that I'm aware of. number for them to call me. Q. I forgot one of my background Q. What's your home phone number? questions. A. () -. Have you ever filed bankruptcy? Q. And did you have an auto loan with A. It was for divorce in, I don't C hase? know, 0 something, maybe. I was a kid. A. I don't think so. Q. I actually think bankruptcy is a Q. What accounts, if any, did you have great thing for people who really need a with C hase? fresh start, so you don't need to justify it. A. You mean, like, loans? Moving on, back to the TCP A, do you Q. We'll start there, yes. understand that if you provided your cell A. The onlv thing: related to Chase I ohone number to C hase. thev're allowed to (Pages to ) (00) 0-
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: questions to ask this person. THE COURT: You can. Ask him his understanding of the law, again, to the reasons I indicated earlier. I know that this is privileged. You wouldn't ask in any way what did your lawyer tell you about this. You wouldn't ask that question. You would ask what is your understanding of the law. MR. KEOGH: And that's what I asked. THE COURT: Again, I don't have a problem with that question. I don't think it invades the privilege. Page Page Q. If you gave them your cell phone number to call, yes. MR. HOW ARD: I'm going to object as to incomplete hypothetical. You can answer. THE WITNESS: Well, my understanding from -- First of all, they're not allowed to do these robo calls in the first place, from my understanding, and I don't believe I even bad a loan with Chase, and the only way -- I don't know how they would have gotten my phone number associated to call for a loan if I didn't have a loan. So it's all MR. KEOGH: Thank you. hypotheticals, right? THE COURT: All right. Thanks. BY MR. KEOGH: MR. KEOGH: Thank you. Sorry to bother Q. You don't sound certain about you. whether you had a loan or not with Chase. MR. HOW ARD: Thanks, Your Honor. A. I don't think I had a loan. BY MR. KEOGH: Q. Now know where I'm going with this one. What is your understanding of the TCPA? Q. Putting aside whether you had a loan or not, that you gave Chase your cell phone number to call and they used a robo dialing system to call you, what do you believe the value of that claim is? A. I don't understand much. O. Now. I asked vou earlier and vou MR. HOW ARD: Objection. Calls for speculation incomplete hvoothetical. Page Page probably heard me on the phone saying that - I THE WITNESS: The biggest issue, you Let me rephrase it. know, with the dollar amount is $, $. Do you understand that if you gave You asked me earlier how many phone calls did Chase your cell phone number, Chase is I get. That's really the heart of it. I got allowed to call you under the TCP A? calls, you got one call, you got 0 calls. A. That's what you're telling me. Why are we all getting the same? It doesn't Q. Well, do you understand that? If make sense. you don't understand it, you can say no. BY MR. KEOGH: A. No, I don't understand that. Q. But what if everyone got around the Q. Now I'm going to ask you to assume average same number of calls? I'm right, all right. That if I am correct, A. Now we're really talking that if you gave Chase your phone number, you hypothetical. don't have a claim under the TCPA. And in Q. Why do you say that? that case, what do you think the value of A. Because you're saying that somebody your claim should be? didn't answer the phone to respond versus A. Rephrase the question, please. others who just let them keep calling and Q. Sure. If you gave Chase your phone ringing the phone off the hook. That's a number, they called you based on that, how real stretch. That's just common sense. much do you think you should get out of the Q. Are you aware of any Chase policies settlement? or procedures of number of calls they make? A. So they called me for either not A. Zero. having a loan or the robo call that you're Q. They make zero calls? not supposed to do? Is that what you're A. No. I'm aware of zero policies savinq to me? exceot for riqht now that I QOt a bunch of (00) 0- R (Pages to )
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: Page Page l You shouldn't have lost, right? Different fee shifting, the fees have to come out of circumstances here. the recovery? Q. If there was risk in these cases, A. Oh, I understand that. as opposed to -- would that change your Q. As opposed to if a consumer statute opinion on the value of the settlement? has fees, the fees can be allocated versus an A. There's always risk. It's just hourly rate. what percentage of risk. A. I understand what you're saying Q. Were you aware when settlement was now. being negotiated, there was petitions pending Q. So in your case if you wanted to in front of the FCC to eviscerate the TCPA? bring a lawsuit under the TCP A against Chase, A. No. you would have to either pay someone hourly Q. Were aware that the lawyers or they'd have to be willing to take a involved in this case met personally with the percentage of your calls, right? FCC on six or seven occasions before this A. Right. Obviously, that's risk/ case was settled to discuss those risks? reward. If I wanted to hire an attorney for A. No. $0 to $00 an hour to try to claim a few Q. And are you aware that the ruling thousand buck or whatever the dollar amount by the FCC related to the TCP A are being would be. appealed in the D.C. circuit? Q. You wouldn't do it? Would you pay A. No. an attorney hourly to collect your $,000 for Q. Are you aware there's a case in the calls? Supreme Court arguing that statutory damage A. No. That's why you do class claims against the TCPA are unconstitutional? action. That doesn't mean you should have A. No. frivolous law fees. What did vou guys Page Page Q. If you were aware of all those actually bill out, a th of that? things, would you consider those risks? Q. Did you ever call class counsel or MR. HOW ARD: Objection; calls for Chase prior to your objection to discuss your speculation. concerns? THE WITNESS: Everything has a risk. A. No. BY MR. KEOGH: Q. Did you ever review any phone Q. Do you believe those are relevant records, your own phone records, to see how risks that are outside the control of the many times Chase called you? parties? A. No. MR. HOWARD: Objection; calls for Q. Why not? speculation. l A. It wasn't a concern. THE WITNESS: Risk is usually outside Q. It wasn't a concern how many times the party's control unless you live in a box. they called you? BY MR. KEOGH: A. No. Q. Are you aware that the TCP A is not Q. Well, earlier you said that one of fee shifting? the problems you have with the settlement is A. What do you mean by that? that they don't provide a per call recovery, Q. Certain consumer statutes provide right? that if you prevail the other side pays your A. Correct. You just answered your attorney's fees. And I tell you the TCPA own question. So what's the point? does not. Does that make a difference in Q. What if you had a claim that had your opinion?,000 calls, wouldn't you want to know that? A. So who is paying your fees? A. Well, ifl had a,000 calls, I 0. Do vou understand that if it's not think I'd know that. IO (Pages to ) (00) 0-
Case: :-cv-0 Document #: - Filed: /0/ Page of PageID #: Page Page MR. HOW ARD: Why don't we take a I NORTHERN DISTRJCT OF ILLINOIS) five-minute break while you look at your EASTERN DIVISION ) notes. STATE OF ILLINOIS ) (A recess was taken.) ) SS: MR. KEOGH: I have no further questions. COUNTY OF COOK ) I, Aneesha L. Williams, Certified I don't know if Chase does. Shorthand Reporter, in and for the County of MR. STEPANYAN: I'll let you know. Cook, State of Illinois, do hereby certify MR KEOGH: We are at the end. that on the 0th day of September, A.D., MR. STEPANYAN : Are you finished asking, the deposition of witness, ROBERT yours? BURACK, called by the Plaintiff, was taken MR. KEOGH: I am. before me, reported stenographically and was MR. STEP ANY AN: One moment, please. thereafter reduced to typewriting through I actually do have a couple very computer-aided transcription. quick questions for you. The said witness, ROBERT BURACK, was THE WITNESS: Okay. first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole EXAMINATION truth, and nothing but the truth, and was BY MR. STEP ANY AN: then examined upon oral interrogatories. ] I further certify that the foregoing is Q. Do you r ecall ever reading, a true, accurate and complete record of the reviewing or signing a contract with C hase questions asked of and answers made by the that included an arbitration agreement? said witness, at the time and place A. I'm not sure w hat that means. hereinabove referred to. Q. An arbitration agreement is The signature of the witness was waived essentially w h en you agree to arbitrate as by agreement. oooosed to takine: a claim to court. An The undersimed is not interested in the Page Page arbitration is an alternative process to within case, nor of kin or counsel to any of resolve a dispute. the parties. A. I don't recall signing something. Witness my official signature as a That doesn't mean I haven't in the past, but Certified Shorthand Reporter, in and for Cook I don't recall. County, Illinois on this th day of October, MR. STEP ANY AN: In that case, that A.D.,. concludes my questions. Thank you. THE WITNESS: Thank you. MR. HOW ARD: I have no questions. MR. KEOGH: Reserve signature? Aneesha L. Williams, CSR MR. HOW ARD: We'll w aive signature. License No. 0-00 MR. KEOGH: Can I get an E-Tran, please? (Whereupon the deposition proceedings were concluded at : p.m.) IR (Pages to ) (00) 0-