t r /! r. i CAUSE NO. 0 THE STATE OF TEXAS VS. RODNEY REED X X X X X N THE DSTRCT COURT OF BASTROP COUNTY, TEXAS ST JUDCAL DSTRCT!. 0 REPORTERtS RECORD JURY TRAL GULT/NNOCENCE MAY, AFTERNOON SESSON 0 VOLUME OF ORGNAL FLED N COURT OF CRiMNAL APPEALS SEP Troy C. Bennett, Jr., Clerk /! r / r
On the th day of May,, the! above entitled and numbered cause came on for hearing before said Honorable Court, Harold R. Towslee, Judge Presiding, and the following proceedings were had: i i..., t', 0 Volume ofs J GULT/NNOCENCE PHASE (PAGES THROUGH 0) r : 0
APPEARANCES: 0 For the State Mr. Charles Penick District Attorney, Bastrop County 0 Pecan Street Bastrop, Texas 0 SBOT #000 () - Mr. Forrest Sanderson Assistant District Attorney 0 Pecan Street Bastrop, Texas 0 SBOT #000 () - Ms. Lisa Tanner Assistant Attorney General P. O. Box Austin, Texas - SBOT #00 () -0 0 For the Defendant Mr. Calvin Garvie Attorney at Law N. Bell St., P. O. Box Bellville, Texas SBOT #000 (0) - Ms. Lydia Clay-Jackson Attorney at Law 00 N. San Jacinto Conroe, Texas 0 SBOT #00 (0) 0-
,". [.. CHRONOLOGCAL NDEX WTNESS APPEARANCES AFTERNOON SESSON PAGE! JOHN BARTON 0 DRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. PENCK CROSS-EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON REDRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. PENCK RECROSS EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON FURTHER RECROSS EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON RECESS (OUTSDE PRESENCE OF JURY) 0 DAVD BOARD 0 DRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. SANDERSON MOTON TO SUPPRESS DRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. SANDERSON CONTNUED VOR DRE EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON DRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. SANDERSON CONTNUED CROSS-EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON REDRECT EXAMNATON BY MR. SANDERSON 0 0 f \-.
. r r - i ROBERTO BAYARDO DRECT EXAMNATON BY MS. TANNER 0 i,! CROSS-EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON REDRECT EXAMNATON BY MS. TANNER RECROSS EXAMNATON BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON 0 FURTHER REDRECT EXAMNATON BY MS. TANNER!. i ; '.. MOTON FOR PRODUCTON OF EVDENCE FOR EXPERT EVALUATON 0 COURT ADJOURNED FOR THE DAY COURT REPORTER'S CERTFCATE 0 - [! -!., 0
! EXHBT NDEX VOLUME * All State's Exhibits marked prior to trial in Volume, Page. (Volume No./Page No. ) (" No. Description Mrkd dnt'd Ofrd Admit! S-0 Large Photo /! S-0a Small Photo / S- Large Photo /!! i ': S-a Small Phto / 0 0 S- Large Photo / S-a Small Photo / 0 S- Large Photo / S-a Small Photo / 0 S- Large Photo / S-a Small Phto / 0 S- Large Photo / S-a Small Photo / 0 S- Large Photo / S-a Small Photo / 0 0 S- Large Statement / S-a Small Statement / S- Miranda Card / S-0 Knee Brace /. i
i! D-ll Dr. Bayardo's Autopsy Report 0 D-lla Revised Report (Not for Jury) : j. 0 0
(Day, May,, Afternoon Session; Cause Number 0, the State of Texas versus Rodney Re e d, ) r [".! (Whereupon the Jury returned to the courtroom and the foliowing proceedings were had in open Court.) 0 THE COURT: Please be seated'. Thank you very much. Who is your next witness? MR. PENCK: John Barton. THE COURT: Sir, will you please come up here in front of the bench and let me swear you in before you testify. JOHN BARTON, the witness, after having first been duly sworn, assumed the witness stand 0 and testified upon his oath as follows: DRECT EXAMNATON QUESTONS BY MR. PENCK: Would you state your name, please, for the jury.
i. i' \ John Barton. And how are you presently employed? 'm employed by a marine dealership in Austin, Texas. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: 'm sorry, Judge. Could you see if his microphone is on? THE COURT: See if that 0 switch is on and tap on it and see if it's working for me. (BY MR. PENCK) Okay, Let's start over. f you would, state your name, please. John Barton. Okay. And you're presently employed where? A marine dealership in Austin, Texas. How long have you 'been employed there? Since October of last year. And before that where were you employed? Bastrop County Sheriff's Office. 0 How long were you employed there? Four years. And what was your assignment there? What were your duties there? was an investigator for the sheriff's office.! '
\ 0 r Okay. And before being with the Bastrop County Sheriff's office where were you employed? Travis County Sheriff's office. And for how long were you there? years. i And you retired from the Bastrop County \ i \. Sheriff's office, did you not? sir, did. 0 How long had you been an investigator? Off and on probably years. You were an investigator with the Travis County Sheriff's Department as well as the Bastrop County Sheriff's Department? \ \. sir, was. Now, were you the investigator that worked on the case involving the murder of Stacey (.. Stites? sir, was. 0 And you worked with Rocky Wardlow, the Texas Ranger on that? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor, leading. THE COURT: Don't lead. (BY MR. PENCK) Who did you work on the case
with? Ranger Wardlow and David Board from the Bastrop Police Department. And also did you work with anyone else in the Sheriff's Department? Lieutenant Campos. And when you first learned of the death of " " - 0 Stacey Stites, what path guess would be the way to put it -- what direction did the investigation take? n reference to who a possible suspect was? Well, yeah. Who did you look to first as far as a possible suspect? One of the first ones looked at was Jimmy Fennell, her fiance. Okay. Known acquaintances? sir, know acquaintances, boyfriends, people she was involved with. That included friends and co-workers? 0 sir, it did. And everybody that she knew. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor, leading. THE COURT: t's leading. Sustained.
(BY MR. PENCK) Did you receive any information at all that she was in any way associated with the defendant in this case, Rodney Reed? No, sir, did not. Approximately how many suspects did you i \!' interview? l think there was close to 0 suspects that we interviewed. 0 And were most of those male suspects? sir, they were all male suspects. And why was that? These were ex-boyfriends, people she had been associated with over the years. Just everyone we been with. could find, really, that she had Was that because of what you had learned what i t had happened to her? looking for male suspects? s that why you were 0 sir. And what was that reason? That she had been raped. i,. '. Now, in interviewing these suspects, did you ask them to give you something in the course of your investigation?
j. < sir, we asked each one of them if they would consent to giving us a hair sample and saliva. blood sample, Okay. And did each one give you those? they each voluntarily gave it. And if may, in each one of these individuals, 'm going to go down a list here, did you take the blood of Jimmy Fennell? sir. 0 And Greg Corner? sir. Mike Kirby? sir. Jon Colgin? sir. Jeremiah smith? sir. George Branham? sir. 0 John Conwell? sir. Wan a Hammett? sir. Glen Allen Pierce? sir.
Robert Campion? sir. John Cook? sir. John Lastovica? sir. ' Henry Young? sir. :.... Bryan Haynes? 0 Bryan Haynes, did not take the blood sample. Okay. On him, did you observe the sample being taken? No, sir. Do you have your offense report with you? sir, it's on the desk there. Did you make a list of the people that you took blood from? sir, there's a list in there. Would you like to review that? Would you 0 explain what happened with Bryan Haynes? Bryan Haynes was in Michigan, believe. would have to check the report to make sure. We requested the state police in that area to obtain a blood sample for us; and once that was obtained by search warrant, they
!. transported the blood to Austin. met with a sergeant from the state police and they turned the blood sample over to me. And what did you do with that? turned it over to the DPS lab. All right. And Gerald Glenn Wright? Yes. And Diogenes Johnson? ~. sir. 0 And Ronnie Reveal? sir. And you observed with exception of Bryan Haynes the blood being drawn from all those individuals that just named? sir. And you took swabs of saliva? How did you do that? We did it under the direction of the DPS lab. They told us to take the swabs and go between 0 the gums and the teeth and completely saturate them and put them in a tube for drying. Okay. And did you do that on each one of these individuals? sir, we did. What about hair samples? How did you go about
., that? The hair samples were pulled by the roots and placed in an envelope. i l." All right. And you took all the blood samples r.. that you observed drawn and hair samples and saliva samples to the DPS lab? sir, they were submitted to the lab.., Did you take a sample that you did not observe being drawn but was given to you by Ranger 0 Wardlow? There may have been a couple of them didn't observe, simply transported to the lab. Would that be Jose Coronado? sir. And in the same respect, did you observe the blood being drawn but did not take to the lab and gave the sample to Officer Wardlow to take? sir. 0 Okay. And would that be Jeremiah Smith? would have to check my report to make sure. Okay. Would you do so, please. t was three individuals, Jeremiah Smith, George Branham, and John Conwell, but witnessed the drawing but did not submit it
. myself. Okay. And do you know who did submit it to the lab? Sergeant Ward~ow. Okay. Going back to the date of April the rd of, did you go to the scene where Stacey Stites's body was found? i l date. There was THE COURT: missed the some coughing. 0 (BY MR. PENCK) April the rd,? sir, did. Okay. And did you cause to be put a blanket over the body of Stacey stites? sir, did. And what reason did you do this? Skyeye had a helicopter directly overhead about a hundred feet or so from our location, and they were filming the scene at the time and didn't feel it was appropriate for them 0 to film that. Because of how she was clothed or what? She did not have all of her clothing on, and just didn't feel like they needed to broadcast that. Now, at some subsequent time did you obtain
t..... the blood from Rodney Reed? sir, did. And what legal authority did you have for obtaining the blood from him? Execution of a search warrant. Okay. And you were the affiant on the search warrant? sir, was.!. '".. And that search warrant was prepared by whom? 0 Sergeant Wardlow. Okay. And did you actually observe the blood being drawn from Rodney Reed? sir, did. And did you obtain the same saliva sample and hair samples from him? sir, did. Okay. And what did you do with the blood. after you observed it being drawn? turned it over to David Board of the Bastrop 0 Police Department, and he transported it to the DPS lab. s the defendant in the courtroom today? Yes. Would you identify him, please. The gentleman in the blue suit.
MR. PENCK: f the record would reflect that the witness identified the defendant. THE COURT: sir. (BY MR. PENCK) And is this the same person )- : you obtained the blood from? sir, it is., r Do you recall what date you did that on? without checking my report, don't recall 0 exactly what date it was. MR. PENCK: Pass the witness. CROSS EXAMNATON QUESTONS BY CLAY-JACKSON: Mr. Barton, you made a report in connection with your investigation in the Stacey Stites i murder; is that correct? ma'am. 0 And that report is what you have been referring to? t ma'am. n preparation for your testimony today, did you review anything other than your report? No, ma'am, that's the only thing reviewed.
\ 0 (' ' May see your report, please? (Witness complies and hands report to counsel.) What you have shown me seems to be a r: compilation of a together; is that correct? number of reports put ma'am.,,: Are you the person who assimilated all these reports and put them together under one 0 heading? They were done by different officers and given to the clerk so there would be one of Lieutenant Campos and one of mine. So there are several different ones involved in that one report there. Your testimony is that you are a retired investigator; is that correct? ma'am. For the Bastrop County Sheriff's Department? 0 ma'am. What rank did you retire in from Travis County i' Sheriff'~ Department? Travis County? Deputy Two. And your duties as Deputy Two, what did they consist of in Travis County? (:,"
i\, " Deputy Two was one step above Deputy One, which was mostly a pay raise. worked there for years, was an investigator, i patrolman, in charge of information services and several different positions while was at Travis County. Sometimes don't make myself very clear. What were your duties as a Deputy Two?,As a deputy Two? 0 sir. Enforce the laws of the State of Texas, guess. Now, Deputy Two is that a desk assignment, or was that a field assignment? t was a field assignment. Were you assigned any particular area of Travis County? Southwest section, which was Brody Lane area. As a Deputy Two, did your duties consist of 0 car patrol, vehicle patrol? ma'am, it did. Prior to becoming a Deputy Two and being ' assigned as a Deputy Two, you said you were a Deputy One? ma'am. "
, And prior to that, you were in the i investigation department?. was an investigator in the mid '0s up until the early part of the '0s. And what specific area were you assigned to investigate? was a homicide detective. Travis County Sheriff's Department is a bit. \ 0 larger than Bastrop County Sheriff's Department? Slightly, yes, ma'am. And so in Travis County they do have different areas of the investigation division and the detective division? ma'am, they do. Okay. s the investigation division also known in other law enforcement agencies as the detective division? As the what? i 0 As the detective division? t can be known as detective or criminal investigation division or criminal investigation bureau. t's according to the organization as to what they call it. n the Bastrop County Sheriff's Department, is \ _ ('.,:
\. ~,.. theirs called the investigative division or the detective division? CD, criminal investigative division. n Bastrop, because their department is much smaller than Travis County, the investigators do all areas, correct, or are they localized for different areas?. i \.. They made a change when Sheriff Hernandez came in to where the investigators would work 0 everything in his area of the county. Before that, they were burglary detail, theft, homicide and child abuse, so they were specialized before that, but now each officer works a certain area, he works everything in that area. So you were in the administration when that was specialized? ma'am, was. And because you had worked in the 0 investigation division in Travis County in homicide, were you then assigned to the r. investigative homicide division in Bastrop County? ma'am. You investigated the death of Stacey Stites,, r.
you said with Ranger Wardlow, Sergeant Board and Lieutenant Campos; is that correct? 0 ma'am. s it your understanding that Ranger Wardlow was the chief investigator? ma'am. And that was because he had multi-county jurisdiction? ma'am. All you-all's reports were submitted to Ranger Wardlow; is that correct? They were compiled. We had the bulk of the reports because of the storage facility here so most of the reports were actually put into a file here in the Bastrop County sheriff's, office. i And then that file was forwarded onto Ranger Wardlow? Ranger Wardlow had included his reports in 0 that file also. with us on it. He was at the office working Now, your testimony has been, just so you don't feel like treat you any differently, you went to an academy before you started -- a law enforcement academy, before you started
with Travis County; is that correct? ma'am. How long was that academy? That academy at that time was 0 days. How long is the academy now? believe it is to weeks now. A lot of changes. Okay. And one of the courses that you took in 0 this 0-day academy was correct? report writing, ma'am. Okay. And they taught you how important details were in writing your report? ma'am. Because sometimes you aren't going to be the one to testify? That's right. Sometimes somebody else is going to have to testify to the work that you have done? 0 ma'am. And to be accurate in details would be important? ma'am. That's one constant in law enforcement, wouldn't you say?
}. i ma'am, with continuing education in report writing. And when you do these reports, you sort of go back to Joe Friday. right? t's just the facts, ma'am. And when you look at those facts and you write /. them down, you determine where, if there are leads or not, right? 0 Well, not necessarily for leads or not, but everything you put in the report you're telling a story of what happened. Some of it may not be leads, some of it may be some extra information there. You try to put it in an order where it makes some sense. And as you say, when you're investigating you're sort of telling a report? story in your offense ma'am. 0 And you're telling a story of how to put a puzzle together; isn't that correct? ma'am. Because everything isn't out there in front of you? You don't have all the pieces to the puzzle.
r. There was nothing -- stacey Stites murder was a puzzle, too, was it not? ma'am, it was. And you needed the facts to try to put the puzzle pieces together; is that right? Yes; ma'am. So in order to do that, you interviewed those 0 people who were the suspects, correct?. i - ma'am. 0 Or you sat in on the interviews of those 0 people? Correct. Would it be fair to say that you sat in on the interviews of most of those 0 people? ma'am. At times were there other officers who sat in on the interviews, too? ma'am. When you have other officers who are not the 0 detectives, who are not actually investigating the offense sitting in on interviews, one of the reasons is that they may have information about the suspect that's being interviewed; is that right? Correct.
i r" : And they can help the interviewer ask appropriate questions? ma'am. n that regard, was there ever an officer by l -. the name of Ed Selmala who sat in on any of the interviews, to your recollection? There may have been one or two that he had sat :. t. t." 0 in on. don't recall exactly which ones they were, but 'm thinking he did sit in on a couple of them. You were at the site where stacey stites's body was right? found on and Bluebonnet Road, Correct. Were you ever at the parking lot where Jimmy Fennell's truck was found at the high school? No, ma'am, was not. Were you at the DPS headquarters when the pickup truck was analyzed for evidence? 0 No, ma'am. i' Did you accompany the body to Dr. Bayardo for the autopsy? No, ma'am, did not. At the site where Stacey stites's body was found, about what time did you -- you were one
of the first officers to arrive, correct? Correct. And in that regard you testified to the fact that you covered the body with a that right? cloth; is with a blanket. What other things did you do at this time to secure the area? We had an officer assigned to write down the 0 names of people that carne into the scene and all the officers that were allowed into, what time they carne in and what time they left. We cordoned off the area so that nobody could go in to that one area. Explain to the jury what the significance is in taking down the names of the officers and then noting their time of entry and the time of departure? Most of the time if you have a crime scene and 0 you've got a lot of people that are going to be corning and going in it, people will carry,., things into a crime scene or leave them and corne back out. So if you find something, such as myself, had a footprint there where stood in the sand on the edge of the pavement.
0 [ ~.. t Well, DPS took an imprint of that footprint. l. f Well, we knew who was in the crime scene, who had come and gone, and was one of them; and it just happened to be that the picture and plastic cast was my have been a footprint. That could suspect footprint also, but they did take a cast of it and sure enough, it was my footprint. And was on the scene, was logged in and out and had a reason to be 0 there. This is one of the reasons to close off a crime scene because everything that goes in doesn't necessarily all come out, such as evidence. When -- what duties did you perform as an investigator at the scene on the rd of April? The initial part that did was to photograph the body and the immediate area around it, and.. l. 0 stepped back and we asked the DPS lab to come out and process the scene for us. Now, when you say that you photographed the body, as an investigator, taking pictures at crime scenes is part of the job; is that correct?!. \ ma'am, it is.
. r:. And one of the tools for someone who is taking those photographs is a ruler, is it not? ma'am. And why is a ruler important? A ruler is important to get an idea of the size of objects and things that are on the ground. The photograph is not going to give. you an exact size. f you lay a ruler down by that, then you have a comparison there so you 0 can figure what size this object is that you're photographing. [, The area in which the body was found was a wooded area; is that right? No, ma'am, it was on the side of the road. The wooded area was behind where the body was.! i found. We had some weeds and bushes and stuff up high, but it was on the, what guess you would consider the shoulder of the road. 'm sorry, Mr. Barton, 'm from New Mexico, 0 and it looked wooded to me. 'm showing you what has been introduced into evidence as State's Exhibit Number. Do you recognize i. this? ma'am. s this one of the pictures that you took, do
r \. you think? 'm not sure if it's one took or one that the DPS lab took. But this does -- you recognize the scene that you observed on the rd of April? ma'am. And this is the kind of brush? Correct. f l\.'; You-all didn't -- the chopper didn't tear up 0 the brush? No, this is grass and weeds on the edge of the roadway, and here you can see the wooded area starts back here behind this. So it's actually an improved shoulder of the road is what it is. And is there a -- in this particular photograph, you can't see the house, but is there a house back in this area? Yeah, it's back up in that corner. t's 0 pretty hard to' see from the roadway. And this was being taken from the roadway, is that not right? ma'am, the edge of the roadway is right here and then the grass there. show you State's Exhibit Number. This is
l i r. i ~. 0 the opposite side of the roadway from where the body was found, correct? Yes. This is it is more heavily wooded? Correct. This is a wooded area? ma'am. Did you take excuse me. Did you take pictures of the wooded area across from the roadway where the body was found? 0 believe DPS lab took the photographs. The only photographs took was the immediate scene where the body was, and stepped back and when DPS arrived they took the rest of the photographs. So would it be a fair characterization that your function as you were seeing it as a trained investigator would be to look at the area closer around where the body was?. ma'am. The broader picture to bring to a narrow point on the view was given to DPS; is that right? Yes. n your investigation of this case, you did not have an occasion to talk to David Lawhon,
r: \ did you? No, ma'am, didn't. And you instructed or you requested a fellow officer in Michigan to speak with Bryan Kenneth Haynes; is that correct? 0 ma'am, that's correct. Did you participate in interviews with Jimmy Fennell? believe participated in the first interview with Fennell and maybe once later on met with him again. And was that -- in that first interview that you had with him, was that before he was Mirandized or at the time he was Mirandized? He was Mirandized before the interview, yes, ma'am. And who, in that first interview with you, who participated with you in that interview?!. 0 Myself, Sergeant Wardlow and Lieutenant Campos. Now, would you characterize it as an interview or an interrogation? t was an interrogation.. Would you describe that interrogation as what has been described as bad cop/good cop type.
interrogation? i No, that wasn't done that way. done at once. Everybody was i Okay. One more time. didn't hear you? There was three of us in the room with Mr. Fennell. Each of the three of us was popping questions to him, and it got heated a couple of times. t was an interrogation. We didn't 0 use the good cop/bad cop routine where you leave the room and one guy is the good cop and the other guy comes back and jumps allover you. We didn't use that technique. That was more of an open interrogation from the three of us to Jimmy Fennell. Q. You call that an open interrogation? ma'am. s open interrogation a term of art among other investigators. mean, if you were 0 talking to another investigator from another jurisdiction and you said used an open interrogation, that investigator would know what you were talking about, correct? don't know if that would be a common term for it. Just an interrogation would be a more common term. But if said open to him,
would mean it wasn't where it was an in and out type deal where one officer would stay while another officer went outside the room and they switched and came back in. So it was just kind of an open deal where each of the three of us was popping questions to him. You said there was some yelling?,.. ~. There was some heated moments there, yes. Do you recall who it was that escalated the 0 conversations to a heated moment? Lieutenant Campos. Was there -- were there accusations made? No accusations came out. The reason for elevating the conversation or the interrogation to a yelling situation was to place the suspect off guard; is that correct? ( i.! i. 0 Correct. Do you find that in your career, have you had few or many occasions where you have had to interrogate police officers? There has been several occasions. l Police officers have training in interrogation, do they not, in their academies and special courses?
. ma'am.! So a police officer would be aware of what was going on, possibly? A trained police officer would, yes. What about a rookie police officer? A rookie police officer might not recognize what was going on. Okay. You said you had at least two.. interrogation sessions with Jimmy Fennell? \ 0 there was the initial one, and then he was interrogated again later on. Okay. Do you recall the date of the second interrogation? Not without looking at the report. Would you refresh your memory? (Witness reviews report.) believe it was October the th,. That is on page of your report; is that correct? 0 Page. At that interview, who was present? interviewed him, but it seems to me like Campos or Wardlow, one of the two of us, was in there with him. don't recall exactly who was in on the interview. But do know that i.
i did the interview with him. may have been by myself on that. just don't recall. Another reason why details are important in offense reports? 'm sorry? Another reason why details are important in \ offense reports? ma'am, they are very important. Okay. So have you ever participated as a 0 single interviewer or interrogator in an interrogation that escalated into yelling? ma'am, have. Each. officer has his own techniques in interviewing, and if you f.ind a weakness in the suspect, you're going to jump on him and try to break him down. That happens -- every police officer does that. That's just the way it is. And are your interviewing techniques geared 0 towards the individual suspect or are they geared towards the personality of the investigator, or perhaps a both? combination of Probably a combination of both. Some investigators are easy-going, easy-talking guys. Others aren't.
o " r How would you describe yourself? " J, work with a guy until it gets to a point where find a point of weakness or something", i" and then we'll talk.," l " second, Judge. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Just one (BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON) Did you have occasion to talk with Carol Stites, Stacey's mother, during the investigation? 0 ma'am. And did Ms." Stites give you information concerning two potential suspects? Not a particular suspect. There was a lot of things going through Ms. Stites's mind at that time. She was trying to give us -- we had asked her for anything and everything that she could think of, including people or whatever that could be a suspect in this. She gave us an enormous amount of information, people's 0 names and so forth. As far as one in particular, she always had her suspicions of a lot of different people. couldn't say there \ ~ was one stronger than the other. Did your investigation reveal that there was a relationship between David Lawhon and Stacey i!
0. Stites? We had been told that by other people, but we never could prove a relationship. Going back to your interrogation with Jimmy Fennell on October the th, did you conduct that interview with Pat Carmack? (!. No, ma'am, my interview was conducted alone., : Did you consult with Pat Carmack about that interview? 0 No, ma'am. Do you know whether or not Pat Camack interviewed Jimmy Fennell? He was in the room with Mr. Carmack. As to what the extent of the interview was, do not know. Okay. Again, 'm showing you State's. The wooded area across the site, the brush is more dense; is that correct? This is not one the one you used a while ago. 0 This is the side we said was more dense. This is looking from north to south. The one you showed me a while ago was looking south to north. t was showed you earlier? think so, yes.
Okay.. This area was more dense, correct? ma'am. As accurately depicted in this photograph? Correct. Given your first-hand knowledge of what the site looked like, if it had been reversed, would stacey stites's body been easily found? i. There is not that much underbrush over here, and it would have been easy to have seen. 0 t wasn't your photograph that -- you didn't photograph the belt that was on the -- the piece of the belt that was on the roadway, you? did think those were DPS photographs. You were informed by more than one person that there was, in fact, a relationship between David Lawhon and Stacey Stites; is that correct? think there was probably two or three 0 individuals that told us that. Did you investigate or have any part of the investigation of the Mary Ann Ault murder? No, ma'am, did not. And finally, when the officer from Michigan gave you the vial of blood from Brian Kenneth
\,.:. { : Haynes, did he al~o give you a copy of his fingerprints and palm prints? Of his fingerprints? Correct. don't think he had a set of his prints. He had all the receipts and all that sort of. ; i. paperwork necessary for the transfer of the evidence. You don't recall? 0 don't recall a set of prints from him, no, ma'am. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Pass the witness. i i REDRECT EXAMNATON QUESTONS BY MR. PENCK: Let me ask you to look at something and tell me if you can identify this. Let me show you 0 what has been marked as State's Exhibit Number and ask you if you could show me on that where the intersection of Highway and Farm to Market is? (Witness indicating.) Okay. s there a convenience store? Service station/convenience store combination
j. is over there. Okay. And can you place this mark on this where that might be, this red mark? (Witness complies.) Now you were told -- you said, believe, in answer to Ms. Clay-Jackson's question about people telling you about a relationship between stacey Stites and David Lawhon. sir. 0 Were you ever able to confirm that there was a relationship between them? No, sir., we never confirmed that. And did you try to? sir. We talked to several people, mean, and several people about this relationship believe one of the officers even talked to David Lawhon, the girl or who and he said he didn't know she was. n fact, he was a suspect in the murder of 0 stacey Stites? he was. And where she was found out there, between the road and where her body was, is the brush fairly thick, the weeds and the brush fairly thick out there in that area?
j guess you could say fairly thick, but it wasn't thick enough to where you could conceal a body or something. [ Could you walk through it? You could walk around on the edge of the growth there, but, you know, you could see all - the way through it. That pi.cture pretty well shows what it l. attempts to show? 0 Yeah, the stuff was about three foot high, the scrub brush on the edge of the road. The rest was sagebrush and grass. MR. PENCK: Pass the witness. RECROSS EXAMNATON QUESTONS BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON: 0 You spoke with David Lawhon; is that correct? No, ma'am, did not speak to him. But your understanding was that he denied knowing Stacey stites? That's correct. Did you ever have a conversation with a Pat Carmack? Mr. Carmack? r!
Correct. had several conversations with him. Did you have a conversation with him on the rd of October? On the rd of October? Yes. don't recall if did or not. the report, 'm certain did. f it's in 0 further questions. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: No MR. PENCK: No further questions. THE COURT: That will be all, sir. MR. PENCK: Judge, may he be excused? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: May we approach? THE COURT: Certainly. 0 you take a (Whereupon a brief discussion was held off the record.) THE COURT: 'm going to let break now. t probably won't be
. more than about ten minutes. Please remember \ and obey the instructions. \- (Whereupon the Jury was escorted from the courtroom and the following proceedings were had outside the presence and hearing of the jury.) 0 THE COURT: Do you want to ask him some questions? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Your Honor. RECROSS EXAMNATON \ i \ QUESTONS BY MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Mr. Barton, if you will go on and turn to page, you said that you, in fact, did have a conversation with Pat Carmack? 0 You asked me about therd of October. That's because didn't have my glasses on, r l the th of October? Oh, okay. think the th of October is when wrote this report. f look correctly, the th of October wrote the report. On 0- of
' is when we interviewed Fennell, 'm sorry. Okay. And you d~scussed -- Mr. Carmack has a skill that investigators utilize; is that correct? ma'am. And the skill that he employed -- is he employed by the Bastrop Sheriff's Department? No, ma'am. 0 He's an independent contractor? Employed on occasions on contract. And during your career with the Bastrop Sheriff's Department, you utilized the services of Mr. Carmack, did you not? ma'am, in my child abuse investigations, used him quite extensively. Okay. The information that you garnered through his skill helped you in solving offenses, did it not? 0 At times it does, yes. i. Mr. Carmack utilized his skills to aid you the Stacey Stites case, did he not? in ma'am, he did. And he used those skills in connection with Jimmy Fennell; is that correct?
That's correct. From the information that he was able to garner through his skills, he told you what he found, right? ma'am. And he told you that Jimmy Fennell could not 0 be -- was deceptive, isn't that correct? ma'am, that's correct. And he was deceptive in key questions, correct? Correct. And those questions consisted of hdid you kill Stacey Stites h? ma'am. And he was found to be deceptive? ma'am. hdid you strangle Stacey?h s what 'm sorry?, i 0 He asked him, hdid you strangle Stacey?h what he asked him. s And Mr. Fennell's answer was found to be deceptive? That's correct, yes. r :! You talked then with Mr. Fennell after his interview with Mr. Carmack, did you not?
ma'am, did. And Mr. Fennell came up with the estimation that he was just remorseful? Correct. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: No further questions. That is my profer. THE COURT: Do understand that Mr. Carmack is a polygraph operator. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: That is 0 correct. THE COURT: Does the State object to this evidence? 0 MR. PENCK: Your Honor, it does indeed. The reason is that polygraph is not admissible and is generally accepted as unreliable. THE COURT: 'm going to sustain the objection and exclude the evidence from the jury, but it will stand as a bill of exceptions. Anything else before we take a break? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Judge, the reason we were offering it is not for ~he polygraph, but the fact that he took the polygraph and the fact that he interviewed
0 the skills of the interviewer detected that he was, in fact, deceptive. THE COURT: Ma'am, believe it should be out. for the record. Do you have any comments MR. PENCK: Judge, the skills of the interviewer are such as a polygraph examiner. THE COURT: don't believe it's reliable evidence and the jury should not consider it. Do you have any other comments, for the record? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: No. being excused? THE COURT: What about him, This gentleman? MR. PENCK: would ask that he be excused and be allowed to get back to his work. MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Yes. THE COURT: You may be excused. Take a short break. (Whereupon the witness was excused from the stand.)
(At this time a recess was taken. ) (Whereupon the Jury returned to the courtroom and the following proceedings were had in open Court.) THE COURT: Please be seated, thank you very much. witness? Do you have your next MR. SANDERSON: The State calls Sergeant David Board. THE COURT: Sir, if you'll come up here and let me swear you in before you testify. Please have a seat. DAVD BOARD, the witness, after having first been duly sworn, assumed the witness stand and testified upon his oath as follows: DRECT EXAMNATON QUESTONS BY MR. SANDERSON: will you please state your full name. David Board.
c'! How are you employed? i i " As a sergeant with the Bastrop Police Department. All right. Sergeant, how long have you been employed with the Bastrop Police Department? Approximately years. Have you had any law enforcement experience i i - outside the Bastrop Police Department? sir, prior to that worked for the 0 Bastrop County Sheriff's Department for approximately months. And can you describe briefly what your duties or as a sergeant for the PD? As a sergeant for the police department, my duties are to supervise the daily activities of the patrol division as well as the investigation division of the department. " " Now, other than the chief of police, is there anybody in your chain of command above you? 0 No, sir. Okay. Have you always been there as a sergeant and especially in control of the patrol units? No, prior to being promoted to sergeant, was assigned to the criminal investigations unit " ""
of the other police department and worked that on and off for a number of years. Now, the name of the current police chief is what? Bill Anderson. And was Bill Anderson the police chief back in? No, sir. 0 And who was the police chief then? n April of ' Ronnie Duncan was the police chief. Okay. And now Ronnie Duncan is with the Sheriff's Department; is that correct? sir, he's a chief deputy with the Sheriff's Department. And in April of what function did you have then at the Bastrop Police Department? was a crimin~l investigator. Were you, as an investigator with the police 0 department in April of were you assigned to work on the case involving the murder of Stacey Stites? sir. Would you tell the jury when it was in the process that you first got called to start the
investigation process for the city? was notified that morning, relatively early, probably around, say, around :00 o'clock by another investigator, Ed Selmala, that a vehicle had been found at the Bastrop High School that belonged to Stacey Stites. was requested to respond to that scene. and did so. Prior to that, believe was notified by the dispatch of a Stacey stites who was an 0 HEB employee that had not arrived at work as scheduled. But at :00 o'clock in the morning, no one knew that Stacey Stites had been murdered; that correct? is No, sir. What did you do, if anything, early in the morning around :00 o'clock when you were i ' called out there? Actually, it was before the recovery of the 0 vehicle -- or the discovery of the vehicle. At i t _ that point in the time we were just trying to determine the whereabouts of Stacey Stites and why hadn't she arrived at work that morning as [' \ " scheduled. had several conversations with the dispatch, and, in fact, contacted Stacey
Stites's mother, who lived in Giddings, Texas, to assure her that the police department was doing everything that we locate her daughter. possibly could to And about what time of morning was it that the pickup truck was discovered? 0 That was probably within an hour afterwards. would same just guessing, probably about :00 o'clock that morning. And think you have already said, but who was it that actually discovered the vehicle? Ed Selmala is the one that notified me. He was was already on the scene at the time that informed of the location of her vehicle. don't know that he actually discovered the vehicle, but he was directed to that parking lot. And you are aware, are you not, that Paul. 0 Alexander actually saw the vehicle way early in the morning? sir. Once you got out there to the location of the vehicle, what were you doing? At that time there were several other investigators there, members of the sheriff's
. department investigators unit, investigator Selmala, and they were photographing the truck, and photographing pieces of evidence that was located around and near the truck. They were -- instructed Selmala to notify a wrecker to tow the truck and to hold the truck! ' i! for the Department of Public Safety Crime Lab f. i ~ in Austin. As far as your personal knowledge is 0 concerned, moving you forward now to later on that afternoon, how were you informed that somebody had, in fact, discovered the body? At the time that was informed, was actually in the air in a helicopter, in a DPS helicopter, with Sergeant Wardlow. notified by Chief Duncan to land the We were helicopter at a location on and when we i'. i did, Chief Duncan approached us and informed 0 us that a body had been found off of. that particular time they believed it to be the body of Stacey Stites. At Do you recall about what time you actually got to the scene? Probably around :00 o'clock that afternoon. Now, from time to time, in the event ask you r..
a question, a specific question, and you have to refer to your notes, just let me know. understand that you did produce a you not? sir, did. report, did n fact, it was some 0-some-odd pages long? Yes. And assure you 'm not going to keep you here to go over the whole thing. just need 0 to hit some highlights. Once you got to the scene and began your duties, what did you feel to be your role at that scene with the var~ous law enforcement agencies present? MS. CLAY-JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor, Ask to use Q& calls for narrative. THE COURT: t's overruled. My particular purpose or function at that particular time was to assist the sheriff's 0 investigators in whatever aspect of the investigation they might need me. Once the body was discovered in the county, then the jurisdiction then changed to the Sheriff's Department. So the Sheriff's Department and the Texas Rangers were the investigative
( r. agencies. s was there for assistance only. So the scene on was outside the city limits? Yes.! Throughout this investigation, according to your understanding, who was the person who was coordinating the entire investigation? The lead investigator would have been Sergeant! i. ~ Rocky Wardlow with the Rangers Division of the 0 Department of Public Safety. Now Sergeant Board, let me move you forward even more into the investigation process. Were there things that you were assigned to do or you took the occasion to do even though other agencies were taking the lead in this investigation? sir. Where was your focus or what did you begin - doing? 0 My focus was to begin interviewing close friends and associates of Stacey Stites, as well as employees of the HEB store where she worked. Can you tell the jury your understanding of what group of persons or category of persons
0 were your initial suspects in this case? Well, initially we began focusing in on close associates, friends and associates and maybe co-workers of Stacey Stites. How long did this process continue? Oh, a long time, probably, oh, don't know, probably throughout the majority of the investigation, maybe a year, would say. Now, 'm not going to ask you about each and every interview you might have conducted through that year, but can you give the jury some idea about how many people you talked to over that period of time? 'm just asking for a rough estimate. don't know, probably 0, maybe. Okay. Were all 0 of those people either suspects or potential suspects? 0 Yes. During that period of time, did you ever have any suggestion from any of these people you were talking to that Stacey Stites knew anybody by the name No, sir. of Rodney Reed? At a certain point in time, after a year or so, Rodney Reed became one of those many.
. 0 suspects; is that correct? Yes. What events or series of events caused the investigation to focus more closely on him? DN And was that from a preliminary database? 0 Preliminary DNA database at the DPS laboratory in Austin. Okay. Once that was established, was there a point in time in which you decided to sit down with Rodney Reed and take a him? statement from Yes. Do you know what date that happened? (Witness reviews report.) April the th,. Okay. At the time that you sat down and talked to Rodney Reed, did you tell him, or to 0 your knowledge, preliminary DNA suspect? did he know of this result that made him a No, sir. As a part of this interview with Rodney Reed, which we will talk about in a little bit more.. detail in a moment, was there a time in which
, you had ~im reduce his statements that he was making to you in writing and in a form? written sir. All right. And did you do that according to standard police procedure? Yes. Now, 'm going to talk about that procedure momentarily or have you talk about it, but 0 before do that, are you familiar with what sometimes is know as a routine? good cop/bad cop type sir. Are you also familiar with other types of interview techniques that are quite frankly kind of rough? Were sir. any of these either good cop/bad cop or 0 any type of rough interrogation techniques used by you on April the th whenever you talked to Rodney Reed? Are you referring to whether or not was doing a bad cop routine with Rodney Reed? sir. We~e you trying to intimidate him or were you doing anything to i! "
r i. i. No, sir. No, sir. :, i.! Describe for the jury, if you would, what the procedure is when an investigator like yourself sits down and takes a written i. i statement from somebody who committing a crime? is suspected of Once meet with them, immediately advise that suspect of his Miranda rights. Suspects in criminal cases are entitled to certain 0 rights, and he was, in fact, advised of those ~. rights prior to giving any oral or written statements. And those rights -- do you have one of those Miranda cards with you? probably have them with me, but it will not be the same one. Well, what want the jury to know is simply' what rights you are talking about. do have that. 0 What rights are we talking about? Would you like for me to read them. f 'that is your normal procedure? it would be a normal procedure. n fact, used a rights warning card very similar to the one have here. This happens to be a j [.:
laminated one, but one of those rights. do give each and every So this is not one you would try to commit to memory? No, sir. probably have it memorized, but do read them from the card. will you tell the jury what those rights are. that we refer to as Miranda rights. Okay. The first warning that is read to them 0 is that you have the right to remain silent and not make any statement at all, and any statement you make may be used against you at your trial. The second one would be that any statements you make may be used as evidence a~ainst you in court. The third one, you have the right to have a lawyer present to advise 0 you prior to and during any questionings. fourth one, if you are unable to employ a lawyer, you have a right to have a lawyer appointed to advise you prior to and during The any questioning. And the last right that read is number five, you have the right to terminate that interview at any time. And still talking hypothetically in terms of your procedure, if a suspect were to say,
don't want to talk to you, what would be your response? The interview would be terminated. f the suspect -- 'm sorry, go ahead.. 'm sorry, if he just said he didn't want to talk to me, still may talk to him unless he invokes his right to counselor his right to [.. an attorney, at which time interview. would stop my 0 f he tells you that he wanted to terminate that interview, what would be the result? would terminate the interview, yes. And again, you just answered this one, if he requests his right to counsel, what do you do? Terminate the interview. Okay. When you sit down with a suspect and go through these rights, do you make sure that that they do, in fact, understand these? Yes. 0 On April the th,, did you sit down with Rodney Reed and go through these basic warnings that you just described? sir. Did you read those warnings from a Miranda card?
sir, did. MR. SANDERSON: May approach the witness?,, \. 0 0 THE COURT: sir. (BY MR. SANDERSON) Sergeant, let me show you what has now been marked State's Exhibit Number and ask you to identify that card? THE COURT: What was that number? MR. SANDERSON: Number. sir, this is the very same Miranda warnings card that read to Rodney Reed on that morning. MR. SANDERSON: The State would offer State's Exhibit Number. (State's Exhibit No. was offered into evidence.) MR. GARVE: May we approach, Your Honor? THE COURT: Sure. 'm going to send you out of the courtroom for a brief time. t probably won't be more than five minutes, don't go too far or get too
comfortable. (Whereupon the Jury was escorted from the courtroom and the following proceedings were had outside the presence and hearing of the jury.) THE COURT: The jury is out. 0 Do you have comments or objections to exhibit number '? MR. GARVE: Exhibit Number, for purposes of the record. THE COURT: will you start over so we have an understanding of where you're going, please. MR. GARVE: Judge, have been handed from the State an exhibit listed as a, and for the record, that is the 0 statement attributable to Mr. Reed that the Court ruled on for the purposes of suppression, if the statement was voluntarily obtained. We have additional objections to this statement. For the purposes of the Court's convenience weare asking that we go i l