It's sixty years this year since the Four Tops, without doubt one of the greatest vocal groups that the world has ever heard, were formed in Detroit, Michigan. Founder members Levi Stubbs, Abdul 'Duke' Fakir, Renaldo 'Obie' Benson and Lawrence Payton were four high school buddies who came together to make music initially under the name, the Four Aims. But it was another ten years before they tasted the big time. In their first decade together they performed myriad gigs - which allowed then to hone their harmonies to perfection - and released the occasional single (for Chess, Columbia and Riverside). But in 1963 they were offered a life-changing record deal by up-and-coming Detroit label, Motown. From 1964 onwards, the group racked up a welter of memorable smashes for Berry Gordy's now iconic record label - among them the US chart toppers 'I Can't Help Myself' in '65 and 'Reach Out I'll Be There' in '66 (which also has the distinction of being the group's only #1 single in the UK). In '72, they quit Motown for Dunhill/ABC. The hits continued to flow - 'Ain't No Woman (Like The One I've Got)' was their biggest smash for the label - and in 1981, they moved to Casablanca where they experienced their first US R&B chart topper since 1966 in the shape of 'When She Was My Girl.' They eventually wound back at Motown in 1983 but it wasn't the homecoming that they had hoped for and after a disappointing second spell at the label, the Four Tops were signed by Arista in 1988 and scored a Top 10 UK smash with 'Going Loco In Acapulco.' Amazingly, the group's line up had remained the same since 1953 and it wasn't until Lawrence Payton passed away in 1997, that they recruited a new member. The deaths of 'Obie' Benson (in 2005) and Levi Stubbs (in 2008), has left Duke Fakir, now 77, as the only surviving original member but he continues to keep the legendary quartet's legacy alive with a new incarnation of the Four Tops, which comprises Lawrence Payton Jr, Ronnie McNeir, and Harold 'Spike' Bonhart. 1 / 12
In March and April 2014 Fakir is bringing the Four Tops to the UK for a keenly-anticipated tour that finds them performing ten concerts in all. The Tops will be sharing the bill with fellow Motown veterans, The Temptations, plus The Platters and Freda Payne. SJF's Charles Waring recently caught up with the amiable Duke Fakir, who talks about his appreciation of the Four Tops' loyal UK fans, as well as recalling key junctures in the legendary group's illustrious history... What can Four Tops' fans expect to hear from you in March and April next year? Well, what you expect to hear is what you always will hear: 90% of our songs will be the favourites that you all like, that we like - what we call our top golden hits - and we also have the same energy that we usually have because we're with our greatest competitors, The Temptations, which allows our vocalists to be in our A-game all the time. You can't mess around and go through the motions, especially with a show like this, and especially with The 2 / 12
Temptations. I'm also looking forward to being with The Platters. I haven't seen them for a long time. We admired all their songs when we were coming up before we had hit records and Freda Payne, we've been working with her well before we both had hit records. We played with her in jazz clubs in our earlier days in theatres with Billy Eckstine and there's a great relationship there and it's just really going to be great show. I'm looking forward to it, as we always do. The only thing about it is that I wish we could come (to the UK) every year and not every other year. We're really blessed. It's the greatest tour that we do during the whole year. It's the love and the appreciation and the graciousness that they all accept us with. It's mostly overwhelming and I'm on a 10-12 day high of love and appreciation while I'm there. It's a great feeling. The Four Tops have had a lot of chart success in the UK over the years - why do you think that the group has connected so well with the British people? It's hard for me to say why. First of all, I think they like the music and I think that they like the camaraderie, the friendship, which we have together. I think that they think that we think that they're special as well. So it's a nice little ongoing love affair (laughs). Something similar to that, I would think, because that's the way I feel. I actually feel love, appreciation and respect - all those kind of great things that we have over there. It's not that we don't feel them here at home (in the USA), it's just a little more prevalent. UK audiences seem to be a little more genuine. There's something so real, wonderful and warm about the fans and the people in all of the UK that is absolutely amazing. We actually hate to leave - and that's all the way down to the musicians. We just like to say to all the people - the people of the UK; North and South, East, West, Wales, and Scotland that we'd just like to thank them for what they've given us. I'm just really looking forward to this trip, you know. What memories do you have of your very first trip to the UK back in the 60s? Our very first trip to the UK was mostly promotional but it was exciting 'cause it was brand new and I didn't realise that all the way across the 'pond' there were as many people that cared about us and loved us and loved our music as there was. I was actually really taken by that many people accepting the Four Tops and how Brian Epstein, who actually was also part of our first promotion and our first tour, treated us and how he felt about us and how he wanted us to be as popular in the UK as The Beatles were in the States. He had a genuine appreciation for us, which he helped to make go over to all of the UK. It was an amazing trip. Coming from Detroit, what was your first impression of England and the UK? 3 / 12
It was the first time that we had been overseas. First of all, it was really different and the culture was different. Television shows would go off in the middle of the day. That was the only thing that annoyed me (laughs). But it was so exciting and it was different. At that time I was very conscious of English attire and so the first place that I went to was to some tailors to have some stuff made, some English kind of things made. I was so into English male attire and initially all I did for the day was shop around for clothes. I'd go to the tailor to get this and to get that. That was exciting but the people were always just so warm and friendly. I loved the way they sounded when they talked. It took me a while to pick up on it and to really understand because some of them would talk so fast. It's a different kind of dialect and you have to really listen. But I caught on pretty quick and I fell in love with it. Going back right beginning, can you remember when you first sang together with Levi, Obie, and Lawrence in the original Four Tops? Oh absolutely, I remember distinctly. It was at a party given by these girls at our high school club. The name of the girls' club was called The Scheherazade. We were like the elite of that school; the prettiest, the most finest, the best brains and all of that. I was one of the star athletes and Levi was always at my side; he would sing on the bus, going to track, going to football, or going to basketball. He was right there with me as a buddy. And the girls invited us. This was the kind of party that you were invited to. They invited me to bring along Levi and anybody else that I thought could possibly sing. That's when we called 'Obie' Benson and Lawrence Payton. Levi and I thought: maybe we can hit it off with these guys with these girls because these two guys could sing well. We'd all had been singing with different groups around and so we got together and sang at that party. We said: Levi, you just sing the lead. We blended so well. It was just so perfect. We all looked at each other and said hey man, this is good, so we decided to start rehearsing and form a group. And that's when we formed. It was the first time that we sang together and it was actually amazing. Right away I just started singing top tenor. Lawrence was second tenor and Obie was third on bass and of course, we would say "Levi hit the ball. Quarterback, go for it!" We were extremely excited because we went there for another reason. To be honest, we went there to be with the girls. I'm not going to kid you. We didn't go there to try and form a group; we just wanted to be able to hopefully accomplish our mission of the night (laughs) and we had great fun. But the most fun we had was singing together; we realised that. The next day we started rehearsing and from there we started doing some amateur shows. We did the biggest amateur show in Detroit. At that amateur show there was an agent who said that he could book us in nightclubs and he eventually followed through on that and we had our first engagement not too long after that and then we bought our first uniforms and had our first publicity pictures. We scuffled right up to that first engagement but once we hit the stage at that first professional engagement we knew right then and there that that was what we wanted to do. I had a scholarship to college but I turned that down. I also had two jobs waiting for me in the state and in the city because I'd taken those tests and I'd just graduated. But we all felt after we 4 / 12
came off that stage that this was what we wanted to do right then and there. We started towards making this a lifetime career. At that time, a lifetime career was 15, 20 years and if you got to 25 it was like amazing. And now here it is sixty years later - what a blessing. How did you get to sign with Motown? We had an amazing career before we even came to Motown; we just didn't have enough followers. We had been hitting on Berry before he had even started the company. When he first started he just casually asked us: "hey, would you like to be with my company?" We just casually said no. We didn't think he had a chance as a black recording magnate/owner in that day. It was like he was going nowhere. At that time we felt that he had no chance. There were two record companies in Detroit that had done it so badly that they had left a bad taste in our mouths. I felt that nobody in Detroit, especially a black record company, could make it. We signed onto three or four different record companies before we came to Motown. We first recorded in 1956 with Chess, then in 1960 with Columbia and then in '62/'63 with Riverside. While we were recording with Riverside, we were also working up in upstate New York. One of the TV producers from the Tonight Show was up there and he said he'd like to have us on his show. So we went down and performed one of our numbers on TV. Berry Gordy was watching and said to his A&R director, William R. Stevenson; "You know the Tops: we want the Tops, go get them." And at that time we had been watching Motown climb up the charts and getting more popular. And then right at that time we realised: "hey, that's where we need to be. We need to 5 / 12
be back home with Berry." At the same time he was reaching out to us so it seemed wonderfully inevitable that we got together and it didn't take long for us to get a deal. What was the experience of being at Motown like? At first, because we were like newcomers, we were like five, six or seven years older than most of the artists at that time and so we were like big brothers. But all of the artists that knew of the Four Tops, they respected us because we had friends and a great name around the city. We felt honoured to be there because some of them had great records - Smokey (Robinson & The Miracles), and the Marvelettes and then we met the Supremes and we said oh my God, look at these girls (laughs). We became great friends right away with them, with Smokey and with Berry. We used to play golf together, we'd play cards together, but the best thing we did, which was very important, was while we were recording our first album - it was going to be a jazz album, not really just jazz but our rendition of the American songbook of standards. Berry wanted us to do that because he said you're capable of doing that and he had nobody else on his roster that he thought could do that. So he needed us. So we recorded that album but it didn't really have the commercial appeal that he thought it would have. What we did learn was how to record. That was one thing out of all the professional-isms that we had; we knew how to get on and get off stage, how to put a show together, and dress up but we did not actually know how to record with feeling. And as I look back on the records that we recorded with other companies they were just nice renditions of songs but the actual heartfelt warmth from the voices and the feeling and the crying and the need of something from Levi wasn't truly there until we got to Motown. And while we were waiting for Holland-Dozier-Holland to come up with the hits, we were constantly doing backgrounds which helped us to really realise how to feel what we're doing and how to project that onto the tape. So it was just an amazing learning experience, those first six months of just being able to get your feelings, not just the notes, but the feeling to go with it, which had been missing I think on our previous recordings. They didn't quite know how to bring it out but Holland-Dozier-Holland did, though. They knew what to do. What was the experience like of working with them? First of all, they were amazing people. They were probably the most talented writers and producers at that time. It was like going into a tailor's shop. You'd go in there and they would fit you with this song for you. The third time you sit down with them your record's in the top 10, boom. They would do that one week to the next week and they would have groups like Martha and the Vandellas, a totally different type of style. But they fitted them with whatever the attire that they needed to make it to the Top 10. And of course, the Supremes; whenever they came into the "tailors shop" they were fitted with number ones. So it's just amazing. I use that analogy. 6 / 12
I like to look at it like that. It was just amazing how they worked with different artists to produce different feelings and writing the sounds that fit. And they delivered. It was quite amazing. You pioneered a different kind of sound with 'Reach Out I'll Be There,' didn't you? Can you remember the recording sessions for that song? Yeah, we thought it was experimental and would be an album song. We never thought it would be a single. In fact, there's a story behind that track. Berry Gordy called us into his office one day. He sent out a memo for a meeting with the Four Tops - so we went to his office and he said: "fellahs, you've just had 'I Can't help Myself' which came out not too long ago... But I'm getting ready to release a song that is as good as or better than that. It will have just as much appeal." So of course, we asked: "when are we going to record it?" He said: "you've already recorded it." We all looked at each other and said: "we can't remember as song as good as 'I Can't Help Myself,' are you kidding?" So he said: "let me play it for you and he played it." So we listened and before the song reached eight bars we said "hold it, hold it Berry. You think that's going to be a great single?" He said: "yes, it's going to be the biggest one you've had, probably." Then Levi said: "man, we were just experimenting with the talking/singing thing. We thought it was going to be an album song. I don't think it's going to be hit. That's not a hit record." We did not hear that, honestly. Berry laughed and said: "look, just watch, you'll see." About two weeks later I was driving in my car and I heard 'Reach Out' on the radio and that's when it hit me. I said "my God! That's that song." Now, whatever it was, in that song, there was something that we did 7 / 12
not hear. Maybe they added something or something. But that song just knocked me off my feet when I heard it. So I rushed back from wherever I was going and rushed to the office and knocked on Berry's door. The secretary said: "He's having a big meeting in there: you can't go in." But I pushed open the door and said: "Berry, don't even ask us about a song. Just do what you do. Thank you! Bye!" (Laughs). And it was true. That and 'I Can't Help Myself,' we're still trying to compare which is the greatest. They're both great songs but totally different. That was Holland-Dozier-Holland. They were looking for new ground for us and that was. And of course, Levi, was so talented. He could make you cry singing a song about a garage (laughs). He'd just got that great voice and a great interpretation of lyrics; he just had a great way of getting across that message with whatever those words were really saying. He could have been a comedian, he could have been an actor... but all he wanted to do was sing. I remember the first thing he said to me, the first time we were playing as youngsters. We were playing football or something, and nobody could catch him; he was very elusive, very fast, and I said "man, when you get to high school, you'll gonna be a great athlete" and he said "Not me. All I want to do is sing." That was it, and that's what he did. And he never went solo, did he? Was he ever tempted to do something on his own? No. There are many stories that I can tell you about people trying to lure Levi as a soloist. Let me give you another story. Berry Gordy did a movie, Lady Sings the Blues, with Diana Ross and Billy Dee, the story of Billie Holiday. The part of Billy Dee Williams was originally written for Levi. When he was preparing to do the movie, Berry Gordy called Levi up. He said: "look man, come out here to California, I want you to do a part in this movie. Bring your wife so we can talk about it." So Levi was very excited, told us about it and we said sure, okay. So he flew out there and they were discussing the movie and the part that he would play. Levi was very excited about the amount of money he would be getting, which was a nice load for himself alone. They kept talking about the movie and Levi just stopped it and said: "Hold it, Berry, what about my Tops, the other guys? What part will they be playing?" Berry Gordy said: "oh no, there's not a part for them." So Levi looked at him and said "Berry I can't do it." So he and his wife headed back home straight away. He had character, you know. If it wasn't for the four of us, it wasn't going to happen. That's what he was. And that was just one instance. There were other instances of people trying to lure him away, which he would tell me about. He did some voice-overs on some of the comic, cartoon kind of things. He did a lot and even when he did Little Shop of Horrors, he asked us if he could do that. I said: "are you kidding? Go, man, do what you gotta do; if it's good for you, it's good for all of us." He just had so much character. And he was very loyal as well. 8 / 12
Yeah, to the four of us. It was just amazing. Whereas groups like the Temptations had lots of different line-ups, you guys stayed together through thick and thin, didn't you? Yes we did. We were very fortunate. We enjoyed singing together. We were like brothers. It was like we were all family. We had made this pact and we knew that as long as we stayed together we had more of a chance. We realised that the four of us together onstage while we were singing was a force that could not be denied. We wanted to say we're going to do this together for as long as it was humanly possible. And that's what we did. We wanted to be different because there was so much love between us, so much respect and so much fun singing together. We could be sitting in an airport waiting for a plane and Lawrence would say "hey man, let's try this," and we would start singing, man. It was something that we loved to do because we felt like we could do it well. It was really fun. Lawrence Payton had a musical ear as good as any professional arranger of music. He couldn't write notes but he could sing them to you. He could take a whole arrangement of an orchestra and sing each one of their parts as if it was written to him. But he couldn't write it down: he didn't want to learn, he just loved his ear. We were very fortunate. How does it feel leading the Four Tops without Levi, Obie, and Lawrence Payton? It's definitely bittersweet. There's nothing like the real thing. There's nobody that will ever be like Obie, Levi and Lawrence. But I feel very fortunate that I'm very close to what is probably the next best thing. We have the son of Lawrence Payton, Lawrence Payton Jr., who has the same voice and the same ear as his dad. And then we have one of Obie's best friends, who we've known for 30 years, even before he got in the group, that's Ronnie McNeir, who's very popular in Northern Soul. And then there's Harold Bonhart who we call Spike, who's always wanted to sing Levi's part, even since he was a kid. So what we have now is as close as you could get to being the real Tops. The energy is still there and we're pretty close to the same sound. Some people think it's pretty much the same. Spike has a voice that is very similar to Levi's and we feel good about it. I've never had to audition anybody for these parts. It was like when something happened or one person passed away, it was just a person that was sitting there waiting more or less to just do that. Like Lawrence Payton Jr; he knew every step, every part that his dad did, everything. He knew that the first time we had a gig. We didn't even have to rehearse. He lived as a Top as a kid. So that's great. And he will probably carry on with the legacy of the Tops if anything ever happens to me. I hope it never does but I say you can't get out of this one alive (laughs). Wish I could. I will be singing right up to the very end. 9 / 12
The new guys seem a natural fit. Yes they are! It was just like they were just waiting there for us, to be picked off the tree, so it's all has been a natural fit. And to me, it's like I'm Uncle Duke and mentoring my nephews to carry on this legacy. They feel the legacy and they enjoy the legacy. The major difference is when we're travelling we talk a lot but I don't hang out with them like I did with all the original guys. They're younger and they have different desires. Me, I just like rest. When I'm on the road now I'll just do some shopping or something like that. Or watch a movie and I'll just go and relax. I'm not looking to do anything. I've been there, done that, and seen that. I'm just basically relaxing whereas they're all over the place, like we were as youngsters. They're moving around, they want to go here, want to do that. After the show I go straight to the hotel and take a shower or a bath and lay there. I don't even have to turn the TV on and I'm gone. (Laughs). So that's what happens as you grow older. But I feel very fortunate because I still have the love for it. I still have the energy to do it and amazingly, I still have the voice as a tenor that I had when I was 20-something. And to me that is absolutely amazing. There are so many wonderful things that have happened to and for us. It's a totally wonderful thing to happen to and I'm always just taken with the love of the people. It's amazing to go through life with all that love around you and to do exactly what you enjoy doing for 60 years.they even give you a cheque most of the time to get through. That's pretty amazing. You've been living a dream, haven't you? To be very honest, that's very well put. I am actually living a dream. Thank you. Finally, what's been the biggest highlight of your career as a member of the Four Tops? Wow! There are so many highlights. How do you pick one? You've been voted into the Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame and anytime you're voted into a any Hall of fame in your industry, that's one of the biggest achievements you can have. I'll tell you what is probably the biggest thing to happen. We achieved a Lifetime Achievement award at the Grammies. First of all, we never had received a Grammy. We never got a Grammy, which a lot of people said: what? They thought it was amazing. We were always beaten out by someone. I remember the year when 'I Can't Help Myself' was nominated and 'Satisfaction' by the Rolling Stones just beat that one out. For the longest time it seemed like we weren't going to get a Grammy but it was no big deal because 10 / 12
we have so many awards but still in the recording industry you would like to get a top achievement award or some sort of recognition from your organisation. Just when I thought we were not going to get it, I got a call from the Grammy awards saying that they were going to give us a Lifetime Achievement award. See, to me, that says something. For a long time we'd been there and we did it every year as well. You can't ask for more than that from your peers from the industry that you love, so in my heart I think that that is - to me - our greatest achievement. It spells out a lot. We were very thankful for that one. Thanks for talking to SJF. Good luck with tour next year. Well, thank you, I'm certainly looking forward to coming there in March with my good friends The Temptations and my darling little sister, Freda Payne, and the wonderful sound of The Platters. We're going to have a great tour. Four Tops UK tour dates: March Fri 21st LIVERPOOL ECHO ARENA Sat 22nd BOURNEMOUTH BIC Sun 23rd BIRMINGHAM NIA Wed 26th GLASGOW CLYDE AUDITORIUM Thurs 27th NEWCASTLE METRO RADIO ARENA 11 / 12
Fri 28th NOTTINGHAM CAPITAL FM ARENA Sun 30th CARDIFF MOTORPOINT ARENA April Tues 1st LEEDS ARENA Wed 2nd MANCHESTER ARENA Thur 3rd LONDON O2 ARENA (LOWER BOWL) All tickets 42.50, London 46.00 (subject to booking fee). Tickets go on sale Friday September 6th at 9.00am from www.ticketline.co.uk the 24 hour booking line - 0844 888 9991 or the venues direct. 12 / 12