(Whereupon, CRMINE TYLOR WELCH "> was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:) D I R E C T E X M I N T I O N :1 p.m. BY MR. SEGL: Ms. Welch, would you be good enough to tell us your full name, please, and your present address? Carmine Taylor Welch; Temple venue; Long Beach, California. If you would, would you use that microphone 1 1 1 1 a little bit because you have a very soft voice. Ms. Welch, have you been connected with the St. Mary's Hospital in Long Beach, California? Yes; since 1 well, since 1. 1 re you still currently connected with St. 1 1 2 2 Mary's Hospital? No; I retired in pril of this year. During the period of time that you were at St. Mary's Hospital, what sort of work did you do? I was dmitting Clerk. Will you just tell us briefly what an dmitting Clerk did what your responsibilities were? dmitting Clerk is taking the biostatistics CJ PRECISIONREPORTING NDTRNSCRIBING, INC. f. 0 loa HIU MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO 2
i k. of patients coming into our hospital either for ji>;;:t general admission or for Emergency Room care. Prior to,going to work at St. Mary's Hospital, what had you done for a living? occupation did you have? What sort of 1 1 1 1 teacher. teach? Long Beach I was a school teacher primary school Primary school teacher and where did you I taught at St. Matthew's Parochial School in How long were you at St. Matthews'? Twenty-two years. s a primary school teacher? Yes, second grade. During the time that you were working at 1 1 1 St. Mary's Hospital, did you come to know Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald, the Defendant in this case? Yes, I did,w h e n he came there in1 1. with him? That was the first time you came in contact Yes. Were you working well, what department did he start to work in when he came to the hospital? I remember him in the Emergency Department. UD PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. r o. *«Mtu MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 2 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO 2-
Were you attached to that department at W>1 that time? dmissions. Not at tliat time. I was with the General Did you come to work with him later on in the Emergency Department? Yes, I did, about 1. Did you stay in the Emergency Department until the time you retired at the hospital? Yes, I did. When Dr. MacDonald first came to St. Mary's 1 1 Hospital, did you hear anybody talk about the fact that he had been charged in with the murders of his family? 1 No; I truthfully never did hear that until 1 I read it in the newspaper later. 1 When did you read it in the newspapers 1 in ", you mean? 1 pproximately around that time; yes. Did you work frequently with Dr. MacDonald from the time that you went to the Emergency Department where he was? 2 Yes, or generally, if something traumatic 2 came in, the Clerk would have to go back to obtain a 2 nnno or some type of identification of a patient. t "J PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. r o ton mo MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO 2-
that tiw, I would be in the room with the doctor and the patient. T How often would you say you would seed r. MacDonald in the course of a week or so? I don't mean to just look at him b u t actually be with him and work with him? Work with him,y o u mean? Yes. It would depend on what the doctor's shift was and my shift, so I would say approximately once a week. Did this continue throughout the entire 1 time you w e r e at the hospital? 1 Yes. 1 1 1 Did you ever have occasion to see h o wd r. MacDonald treated patients when they were brought in in the Emergency Department? 1 Of course, my impression of Dr. MacDonald 1 has been that he is very dedicated and has great compassion for the person and to administer as quickly as he could firstaid. You say that your impression is that heh a s > 2 2 2 great compassion for the person. Can you tell u s, perhaps, what do you base that opinion on? What experiences have you had with him that led you tot h e in C~2 PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. 1 p O»o» W O MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0b DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PITTS0RO 2
1 2 conclus. JU that he is a compassi o n o «_e man? Well, I think his quick action, and, of course, personally, my own husband was quite ill one morning at 2:0 in the morning and was taken in by paramedics. The doctor did not know it was my husband, and he treated him for septicemia, and according to our family doctor, it was Dr. MacDonald's quick action that saved his life. Did you see him dealing with patients who n were rowdy or unruly, people who were drunk or under the influence of alcohol or drugs when they came to the Emergency Room? 1 1 Yes. Did that happen very often when you had 1 patients like that at the St. Mary's Hospital? 1 1 1 1 Unfortunately, we do. 2 2 2 C~) PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. UD MIN OFFICF RLEIGH? 0R DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO 2
BY MR. SEGL: Tell us a little bit--you know--saint Mary'sis that a suburban area or what kind of area for those of us who are not familiar with Long Beach? J. area. Well, it's more or less like an inner city Inner city area? Yeah; and even as to how some of the people > 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2\ 2 2 2 that would come in how the clerks were treated if Dr. MacDonald was on duty, he always stepped out to ask them to quiet down and not talk to the ladies in that manner. What about--did you ever have occasion to see a patient become rude or speak profanity toward Dr. MacDonald or other members of the medical staff to see how he handled those situations? MR. BLCKBURN: Your Honor, we would like to approach the Bench. THE COURT: Well, is this an objection I'll SUSTIN an objection to that question. BY MR. SEGL: Did you ever have occasion to see Dr. MacDonald in dealing with children who were patients or otherwise brought into the emergency ward? Yes; I have. C m PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING, INC. UD P. O»oa H 1 U MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 2 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO 2-
t, Could you tell us 'DO-C _ hew he Cca.] > K > '» and handled children? > MR. BLCKBURN: THE COURT: OBJECTION. OVERRULED. BY MR. SEGL: Yes, you may answer, Ms. Welch. Well, I think the same care of any patient with great interest is to care for the patient. When you say "care," are we talkinq about just you know doing the thing a doctor is supposed to do or are we talking about some other qualities involved in his treatment and handling of children? 1 Well, I found him to be very kind and 1 1 1 fatherly with children and to ease youngsters because most youngsters are more or less shy and frightened of hospitals and doctors. 1 nd how would he deal with those persons? How 1 1 did he overcome that kind of attitude if you ever saw any such experiences? Well, of course, mine would have been more or less when I first went in like for a translation where the family could not speak English. I would 2 2 2 translate it for children, and there would have to be quick action between my trying to translate to the doctor what was wrong with the child, et cetera. PRECISIONREPORTING NDTRNSCRIBING. INC. P. O. * M HIU MIN OFFICE RLEiGM 2 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PITTSBORO 2
0 Was he a nan that show, he was quick to become irritated, quick to lose his temper in these kinds of situations you describe? MR. NDERSON: THE WITNESS: I really don't. BY MR. SEGL: OBJECT to leading. No, I don't think so. No, Did Dr. MacDonald have occasion during the 1 1 1 time that you worked with him in the emergency ward to deal with battered children? I know of cases that have come in. I've seen two myself where cigarette burns or malnutrition and the interest the doctor has taken to see that things are taken care of and the child is admitted to the hospital for observation. 1 Go ahead. I'm sorry. I did not mean to 1 1 1 interrupt you. I was going to ask you about, Ms. Welch, would you say the interest and concern he expressed about battered children was the same as other doctors or different than other doctors expressed? I believe it is a policy that Dr. MacDonald ^ oo 2 has in our hospital emergency room to be on the lookout for something like this. 2 When you say "be on the lookout," does that 2 mean to take special care and attention to the situation; d P PRECISIONR E P O R T I N G NDTRNSCRIBING. INC. " WO"-»~"> C»WW«1T»I MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 2 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBOR0 2-
To take care of childr^.. coming in, yes. Did you ever have occasion to seed r. MacDonald dealing with people who w e r e apparently under the influence of drugs or narcotics when they were brought into the hospital? Yes;a n overdose. nd what was h i s attitude toward them? I mean, how did he handle those patients and how did h e express himself toward those people? Well, the same as any other patient with interest and care. 1 1 1 patient. I'm sorry. With interest and c a r e l i k e any other What is your opinion of Dr.M a c D o n a l d as f a r 1 1 1 as being a peaceful man a man not given to outbursts of violence or rage? What is your opinion of him in that regard? 1 I have the h i g h e s t opinion of Dr. MacDonald. I have never seen him in any form of anger of any sort. What is your opinion of Dr.M a c D o n a l d as far as being a truthful man? 2 Well, as far as honesty is concerned, I 2 2 trust everyone until they are p r o v e n otherwise, and I have never found hin to b e untruthful. PRECISION REPORTING ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. r o.» Mitl MIN OFFICE RLEIGH? 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO 2
*. p i BY MR. SEGL: nd how long is that that you have known him andworked forhim? Since, that I have known thedoctor and worked steadily inhisdepartment forthe lastsix years. MR. SEGL: Thank you, Ms.W e l c h. The Government may want toaskyou some questions in cross-examination. MR. BLCKBURN: Just a very fewq u e s t i o n s, CROSS E X M I N T I O N :0 p.m. 1 1 BY MR.BLCKBURN: Ms.W e l c h, when didyou first meet 1 1 1 Dr. MacDonald? In. In? 1 1 oo in 1? Yes. You started towork in general admissions 1. In 1, you started working for 2 Dr. MacDonald, is that correct? 2 OVfT to In the emergency department. I transferred that area. [~) PRECISION REPORTING r ^ ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 1? G DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL PlTTSBORO 2-
?2 ^ You never know him, thv.i, prior to his coming to California, is that correct? Noj I never did. You never knew his prior family, I take it? *> No. You do not have any personal, firsthand knowledge of what occurred at Fort Bragg on the evening of the 1th of February,, do you? No. MR. BLCKBURN: MR. SEGL: No further questions. Thank you very much, Ms. Welch. You may step down, please. 1 1 THE COURT: (Witness excused.) Call your next witness. 1 1 1 1 MR. SEGL: for a moment, please. (Pause.) MR. SEGL: Your Honor, indulge us May we see Your Honor 1 about scheduling just a second? THE COURT: Yes, s i r. BENCH C O N F E R E N C E 2 MR. SEGL: Your Honor, we have 2 another witness--character witness who is here from 2 Lonq Beach; but even with a few questions of cross, i t pr~p PREC CTL ND TRNSCRIBING. INC. p. o to. m u MIN OFFICE RLEIGH 2 0 DURHM 1 2 CHPEL HILL - PITTSBORO 2-