Hello ハローインタビュー 能楽師杉浦豊彦さん Noh Master Mr. Toyohiko Sugiura Although that may be too ambitious to achieve, I hope to be praised at least once in my life as being the best Noh performer in Japan. That is the goal I am devoting myself towards. On 5 th March 2016, an introductory workshop to Noh, generously sponsored by Japanese donors, was successfully held in Singapore with Singaporeans as the audience. Even in Japan, it is rare to have the chance to set sight on the collection of the Noh masks and the Noh costumes of Sugiura Family. Yet in Singapore, the workshop participants had the opportunity to put them on, as well as experience the songs and the dances of Noh play. Mr Sugira graciously took questions from four of the participants after the event. Mr Sugiura is a Noh exponent renowned for his polished stances and graceful movements. From the interview, one can feel his quiet conviction and deep passion to carry on the 650 year-old tradition of Noh. 1
Jerry: Who influenced you the most as a Noh performer? Sugiura: My late Master, Mr Motomasa Kanze, who was also the 25 th Family head of Kanze, was my biggest influence. I was living and training with my Master for about five and a half years. One year after that, he passed away at the age of 50. I also trained with the current Family head, who is 3 years my senior, when we were under our previous Master. He gave me lessons before my training with the Master started, so definitely he also has a strong influence on me too. My father, too, played an important role in shaping my foundation. I trained under my father since young I made my debut when I was 3 until I was about 20. A lot of what I was doing was imitating my father and his style. After that, when I trained under a new Master, I wanted to break away from under my father s shadow. But the more I tried, the more I realized I couldn t escape his influence, including the bad parts. I guess I am his son after all. It is not easy to inherit just the good bits from my father, so I am thinking how I can be a Noh performer by escaping this influence. Jerry: In your opinion, it is possible to promote Noh in Singapore? Sugiura: I think there are opportunities in any part of the world. However, it will take more than one man s effort. It is the same everywhere, even in Japan. You have to be able to reach out to the audience, depending on where they are, as attitudes differ from place to place. Jerry: What are your hobbies and interests? Sugiura: Well, I don t really have anything in particular right now, but I ve always liked sports. Not just watching but playing sports. I like soccer and I used to like baseball when I was in primary school. I was in the soccer club but my parents were worried I would get injured and affect my stage career, so I gave it up. During college, I played tennis and skied. Nonetheless, I liked soccer so much that I formed my own futsal team with other Noh players at the age of 40. When I first started futsal, I was tired out just after 5 minutes. But after playing regularly once a month, I slowly built back my strength. With the injuries and sprains, I was worried if it would affect my Noh performance. Ever since my knee operation, I hardly play sports. It is a pity. For now, I watch movies occasionally. Jerry: Do Noh performers get injured often? Sugiura: Yes, knee injuries are common. There is a pose which requires one to jump and seat crosslegged mid-air, before dropping back to the ground. Performing this can easily lead to knee injuries. Generally, Noh actors often have to perform vigorous movements and jump mid-way. If we get too caught up in the momentum, or do not control the fall properly, our knees get affected. In this way, there are many Noh actors affected by knee pain. In addition, there is a movement tobigaeri ( 跳び返り ) which if not executed properly, the impact of the movement would injure the knees. Moreover, as we have adopt seiza ( 正座 ) quote often, we have to train our upper leg muscles or else we will strain our knees, which we depend a lot on for other movements so we have to keep it in good condition. Doing some sports from young, to some extent, or doing physical training is important, I think. Jerry: Is this your first visit to Singapore? Sugiura: Yes. Jerry: Is there anything you would like try in Singapore? Sugiura: Nothing in particular, I am happy just to explore the city. Actually, I would like to visit the infinity pool on top of Marina Bay Sands, but I heard access is restricted to guests staying there. 2
That s too bad. I could still visit the observation deck, but still it s a pity. The view of the cityscape would be the same whether from the pool or the observation deck, but I hoped to experience what it would be like to almost spill out from the pool, which I saw on TV before. Jia Qi: What is your impression of Singapore and Singaporeans? Sugiura: Singapore is a very beautiful city. The people I met are all very nice people. Everyone is wearing a lovely smile. Jia: In Japan today, it seems difficult for women to take part in Noh performance, isn t it? Sugiura: Yes, it is difficult for a woman to become a professional Noh performer. However, there are a lot of amateur female Noh performers. There are not many female professional Noh actors. Well, from the beginning, Noh was only performed by male actors. I m not sure how you felt about the workshop just now, but both the singing and the movements need quite a bit of strength. Even playing a female role requires a lot of core strength. Just taking the basic stance, you need to have a strong waist, and women may be physically softer. This is why even if a female performer tries to use more strength, it will still be inferior to a male performer. For the voice, this is especially true. When strong chanting is required, the male performer can produce a more solid and forceful sound compared to the thinner voice of a female performer. Women can bring out the higher range well but at the lower and deeper range, they just cannot produce the sound no matter how hard they try. This is where a female Noh actor loses out. Therefore, female Noh actors need to work that much harder than male actors in order to be recognized as good. It is tough for them. Although there are professional female Noh actors now, there are still songs or formal occasions where women are not able to perform. For example, when there is a mixed chorus, there are times when the chorus has to sing or speak on behalf of the lead actor, and the female chorus members are asked to sing as low as the male chorus member (and thus there is a lack of a constant sound). It just feels strange. Unfortunately, female Noh actors are just not allowed at the real formal performances. Jia: On the internet, I have come across collaborative performances between Noh and other art forms. Have you been involved in such collaborative performances before? Sugiura: I do not have such an experience myself, but the Family Head once performed the dance of the Spirit of Butterfly in a costume designed by Ms Hanae Mori. But that was just wearing a different costume. The Family Head also collaborated with Kabuki actor Mr Saburo Tama in a dance before, but the two arts did not mix much. It is kind of difficult to perform Noh with other instruments since none of the Noh instruments are actually meant for playing the melody. Noh instruments include the three percussion instruments and the flute. Only the flute can play the melody, but it does not do that in Noh. Noh instruments are used to convey what is going on in the scene. They are not meant to play the melody. It is difficult to imagine how an instrument playing on a musical scale, such as a guitar or a piano, could be incorporated into a Noh performance. If we give it a go, and it doesn t work very well We do not see even the shamisen or the koto in Noh performances. So from that it will not be surprising if other instruments, which play the melody, will work well with Noh. Perhaps just presenting Noh as it is works best. Pauline: Which is your favourite Noh play? Sugiura: I am often asked which songs I like, but actually I have no preference. The song I like varies from time to time. The song that I am working on right now is Okina ( 翁 ), means venerable old man. I was mentioning just now that female performers are not allowed in this play. Actually it does not have much of a storyline. This song is more of a ritual praying for peace and rain for good harvest. 3
This song is led by the Family Head of Kanze, and it is also performed by the Family Heads of the different Noh Families. It feels gratifying to be honoured with a part in such performances. Generally, Okina is performed as the first play of the New Year period. It has a bracing and sobering effect on the mind. In olden days, performers had to practice a seven-day cleansing ritual before the performance. But nowadays, it is only in the morning of the day of the performance itself that such preparation, e.g food rituals, is carried out by the male performers. Before going on stage, the performers will hold the sacred sake in their mouths and cleanse their body with salt. All performers will also hold in their mouths water that has been used to wash rice. These rituals have a bracing effect on the performers, putting them in a positive and prepared state of mind for the performance. There is another song which is named Doujyouji. Doujyouji is a temple located in Wakayama. This Noh play presents legends surrounding the Doujyou Temple. In part of the performance, you will see a huge bell suspended on the Noh stage. Weighing about 60 to 70kg, the bell is suspended on stage over a beam using a rope and a pulley system. It is quite heavy but the Noh performer alone is pulling on to the bell to keep it suspended, before he lets go and jumps under the falling bell, disappearing from the view of the audience. There are times when you hit your head, or when you miss your timing and the audience catch the legs going separately under the bell. It is best if the performer can achieve a clean disappearance under the bell. Sometimes, the movement is clean, but you still end up hitting your head, and it could result in a concussion. There are cases of whiplash and you could end up dazed for a while. So there are such dangerous Noh plays, but I found them interesting. Performing Doujyouji is considered a test that all Noh performers must pass to be considered independent. After gaining more experience, Noh performers will reprise the role to see how much they have grown. For myself, when I performed the play the second time, I could see how much I have grown as a Noh performer in the past 20 years. So this play is meaningful to me in this way. Pauline: What are the requirements to become your Noh disciple? Sugiura: I do not have any requirements in particular, as long as the person is motivated himself. Pauline: Could a foreigner (non-japanese) become your disciple? Sugiura: Perhaps, but there are none in the Kanze Family, although there are professional female Noh players In the Kongo family. I am not sure where they are from, but there some English speakers who often conduct outdoor performances called takigino ( 薪能 ) in the summer to promote Noh. At these events, there are many foreigners among the visitors, and these English speakers are able to give explanations about Noh in English. You can find them on call at the event reception. Pauline: Noh has a long history of 650 years. How has it changed along the way? Sugiura: My impression is that Noh has certainly changed a lot. First, the length of each performance has become much longer. In the olden days, normally five songs would be played in a single performance. Nowadays, one song alone on average takes about one and a half hours. There are hardly any songs that end in an hour. Most songs last about one and a half hours. So going through five songs in one performance would take up a lot of time. Apart from the songs, in a performance there are also kyogen and breaks in between. Generally, performances start at 10 am in the morning. If five songs were to be played, the whole performance would last until 5, 6 pm. In the olden days, Noh was entertainment for the feudal lords and samurai, so the performances were not likely to take up too much time. Do you still remember tsuyogin ( 強吟, meaning powerful recital) and yowagin ( 弱吟, meaning soft recital), the different modes of singing that I was explaining just now? While tunes can be generally taken loudly or softly, for each tonal inflection (upper, middle and lower), the approach to be taken 4
whether to sing loudly or softly also differs. For example, Takasago is now sung in a strong voice, but I think originally it was not sung in this way. It was always sung softly in the past. The variations in pitch were finer in the past. When singing in a strong voice, the differences in pitch could not be distinguished clearly, and the upper and middle intonations tended to meld together. In order for the tones to be easier to distinguish when singing in a strong voice, the gradations in pitch increased. This change took place quite early in Noh s development. There is also other evidence from olden melodies left behind that there was no singing in a strong style. So this was another thing that changed in Noh s development. There has been hardly any new songs since the composition of new songs was prohibited by the Tokugawa government during the period of national isolation. From the Edo period onwards, no new songs emerged. So now it is difficult to come up with new songs. For that reason, the practice has been to polish and refine the existing Noh repertoire. In the olden days, Noh songs were composed reflecting the social climate of the time. They also incorporated into story form the popular songs of the day. Pauline: How do you plan to pass on this wonderful art form to the next generation? Sugiura: My son is also taking up Noh, but it is hard to say if he will continue the tradition in exactly the same way. There is no guarantee there will continue to be an audience who will appreciate and come watch Noh performances. How to promote Noh changes with the times. For example, where we are now, today s Noh demonstration would be one way to promote Noh. Nonetheless, these efforts alone are not enough. I think it is not sufficient to promote Noh by presenting it in novel ways. Doing that alone cannot maintain the level of the Noh art form. I think the first thing to do must be to develop yourself as a performer, in other words honing your craft is the most important thing. In this way, the possibilities open up and you become capable to do different things. By taking a proper traditional approach, the audience will naturally come to you. This is what I would like to tell the next generation. In my opinion, it is very important not to lose sight of this. Pauline: Is there any etiquette the audience should follow when watching a Noh play? Sugiura: No, there is no special etiquette to follow. For example, you can come in any dress, even in jeans or shorts. Some people may be particular about when it is appropriate to clap, but I m personally quite easy-going about this. If people are moved to applaud spontaneously, I think it is a good thing. But perhaps not many people think this way. For example, in the performance of Doujyouji, the audience will often break into applause when the performer executes his jump under the falling bell. Usually that s not done for other Noh performances, to clap in the middle, but for Doujyouji it s a bit of an exception. Such scenes do not usually appear in other Noh plays. Also, at the end of the performance, when the performers are filing offstage, it is not always clear when it is right to start the applause. I think it is good to clap when the tension of the performance has lifted. However, oftentimes, when I feel that the tension of the performance has already lifted, the audience continues to be unsure when to clap, so it is only after the performers have completely entered backstage that the applause begins. There are also some performances that the audience are told not to clap. Depending on the play, sometimes the audience themselves would not want to clap at the end. For example, the play Sumidagawa ( 隅田川 ) has a tragic ending. When it ends, the audience is likely still caught up in the play s sorrowful mood, so they can t bring themselves to clap. Maybe there ll be some scattered applause at the end. Another play that I recently performed, Sotobakomachi ( 卒都婆小町 ), is another example. In Sotobakomachi, there is the role of an old lady. In Noh, I think such roles are the most difficult to play. I played my first old lady role in Sotobakomachi. You have to walk hunchback with a walking stick, and it takes time to hobble offstage at the end, during which 5
no one would usually clap. Only after I went offstage would there be some scattered applause, and that s all. It s a little discouraging compared to other performances. When I asked one of my pupils about it, he said that the audience was so touched that they were unable to applaud. Patrick: Apart from the usual training, do you play any sports or follow any particular diet to help prepare you for your performance? Sugiura: Most Noh players don t do anything special. I think some of the Kabuki actors do. We don t really do anything extra, because even though we are professional Noh actors, we still have to conduct Noh lessons. We give lessons to people who have an interest in Noh to help supplement our income. What we get from performing alone is not enough to get by. If it was possible to just focus on performing alone, we probably would be able to do more physical training. I don t think the Kabuki actors usually have to conduct classes. They are able to spend more time on performing, working the entertainment circuit and hone their craft and train their skills. However, of course there are Noh actors who exercise or jog to keep their knees in a healthy condition. Patrick: Do you have any routines or habits which help you mentally focus before each performance? When you put on the Noh mask, are you able to completely enter into character? Sugiura: Before going on stage, the shite is seated alone in front of a big mirror in what is called the Mirror Room ( 鏡の間 ). There I will put on the mask used for the performance. Before putting on the mask, I will offer the mask upwards with both hands in a symbolic gesture of respect. This is to show appreciation for the Noh mask which is regarded as important as life itself for Noh actors. Putting on the mask is not just about getting into character, but also about the continuation of the Noh tradition through the generations. Compared to other Noh artifacts like the costumes, Noh masks are more able to be passed down through time. For Noh costumes, they are made of cloth after all so it is quite often that they don t last very long due to the wear and tear. However, Noh masks are more durable. Even if the material or paint peels off, they can still be repaired and used again and again. As all masks were passed down from our ancestors, I will definitely pay my respects before putting on the mask. It is said that the actor will completely take on the character when the mask is put on. But I don t think the gesture carries such deep significance. In fact, I don t think the actor should take on the character completely at all. In Fuushi Kaden ( 風姿花伝 ) by Zeami, he talks about the concept of riken ( 離見 ), which literally means to observe from a distance. In Noh, rather than entering into a character completely, it is vital to retain the ability to observe oneself objectively from a distance. If one is too absorbed in his character, he will not be able judge how the audience is perceiving his performance. Instead of getting absorbed into the role, it would be more important for the actor to be able to view his performance through the eyes of the audience, and think about how best to present himself to the audience. Being able to keep an objective perspective is critical to the performance. Patrick: What is that like in a performance? Sugiura: In my case, there was one occasion when I could not control my tears. That was once when I played Sumidagawa. I was playing the role of a mother who was searching for her lost child. The child had been abducted. The mother eventually found out that the child was left dead and abandoned in the wilderness, so it was not possible to be reunited with her child. That was a play with a tragic ending. In most Noh plays, there is usually a happy ending where everyone makes up with one another and is able to return home. However, Sumidagawa is an exception. The characters were parted by death, and the mother was only able to meet with her son s spirit. During that performance, I was thinking of my sons who were alive and well. At the time, my elder son was 23 years old, and my second son was still in middle school or high school. Both of them were staying on 6
their own. When I thought about it, I started tearing while singing on stage. I shouldn t have done that actually. So I wasn t able to maintain riken, which is to keep an objective perspective. By getting completely absorbed into the character, I was overcome by the feelings of the mother even though my children were not actually dead. Some of the audience might have noticed it: Master, you were crying just now, right? Some in the audience were influenced by my emotions and ended up tearing up too. Patrick: My last question is, where do you see Noh, as well as the traditional Japanese arts, headed in the future? Sugiura: Well, looking ahead, it s not all going to be smooth going, but also I don t think that this part of our culture will disappear. The form of the art itself will change over time, of course, but I believe that some parts of it will definitely be preserved. If all Noh performers don t work together, it will be hard for us to continue the Noh tradition. If we don t unite together in purpose to promote and raise awareness about Noh, it will be difficult to pass down Noh to future generations. At one time, my dream was to be the most outstanding Noh performer in Japan. Although that may be too ambitious to achieve, I hope to be praised at least once in my life as being the best Noh performer in Japan. That is the goal I am devoting myself towards. [Editor: Kasasaki Atomi, Photo: Mr Kenny Ng (Japanese Speaking Corner)] 7