INTERVIEW WARWICK THORNTON DIRECTOR Q. Where did the idea come from for The Darkside and how did the project come into being? A. I ve always been interested in genre, and thriller and horror and that sort of stuff but there are not very many really good films around and I thought I can have a go at that. But to step into that kind of water, which is sort of shark infested, you ve got to tread very carefully, and I thought that we should do a documentary using true stories to start that journey across that ocean in a sense. You know to do something that is much simpler, much more about oral history, about storytelling, make sure it s true stories first hand stories. From people not urban myths, or stuff that s been diluted, really core original stuff. I talked to Kath [Shelper producer] about the idea and it was a bit of a bushfire it was just an initial spark that took off really, really quickly. It was amazing how quickly we were into the film, and how quickly we started literally shooting and editing. Q. And so it came from your interest in ghost stories and your interest in films that deal with horror and that underworld? A. In cinema you ve got your epics, your science fiction, you ve got dramas, like Samson & Delilah, but I ve always been interested in thriller, you know it s the kind of place I d love to go. And Aboriginal people have got an amazing sort of oral history of ghost stories, and even though we live in this country, and we have an incredible knowledge of this country, we re just as scared as everybody else of this country I mean scared of ghosts and that. And this is an interesting idea too that through colonization, that we ve become, you know we used to have a lot of dances and we used to have a lot of points in a calendar that would recognize the dead. And through loss of culture and that sort of stuff, we re not recognizing the dead as much as we used to. And it s a kind of an interesting thing about The Darkside that I want to explore that place, and I m really interested in the afterlife and how we can recognize our ancestors, who are around us every day. And gathering all these stories that we have, they sort of connect and show us how to recognize when people come back, and want to talk to us; or check on us; and they have opportunities to do that. That was the initial really beautiful spark of the journey. A friend of ours whose story is in The Darkside Romaine Moreton talked to me about how we don t you know we ve got a lot of spirits that are really lost because they are looking for that connection that they have with us living. But they re from a different world they re from a 200- year ago pre- colonization concept of Australia. And they must be looking at the world today going this is not my place this is not my country I am lost spiritually in a sense because we re not dancing the dances anymore; or singing the songs anymore. So, it s a really interesting conundrum. Q. So once you had the idea of delving into that world, then what was the process you undertook in terms of doing the call out for stories? A. It was interesting that process of doing the call out and getting people interested in what we wanted to do, or at least getting them to know what we wanted to do, happened incredibly quickly. Everybody was sort of primed in a sense for it. You know I just put the word out I m making a documentary or I m making a film about contemporary firsthand ghost stories, and everybody goes wow. It was like wildfire all the national radio stations, the print media, everybody got on board really, really quickly and suddenly this flood of amazing stories came to us from people. Or at least people were sussing out what do you want and that kind of stuff. It was really quick.
Basically we set up a webspace where people could interact with us and tell us they have a story. And we d ring them back and go Okay, what s your story? And from there, we got all these stories. Q. When you got that big master list of stories, how did you choose which ones you wanted to include in the project? And you know we were hoping for the spinning head in the cupboard kind of concept but what, the through line we noticed was that they were much more about family, and connection and they were about love. You know, they were stories, not about being afraid, but embracing ghosts, in a sense. And loving them and realizing this is your culture, and this is your ancestry, trying to come back and connect with you. A. An interesting thing happened. When we did the callout I asked for people to come forward with their stories the scarier the better I was after really scary ghost stories. The stories came in quite quick and fast and there was this reoccurring sort of theme to the stories. And they weren t scary they weren t about spinning heads in cupboards, and headless horsemen or possessed children. They were about family. And they were about connection to the afterlife. They were about love and yearning and missing people who ve died, and those people coming back and saying, Hey, I m cool, everything s okay. They were about they were very personal stories to do with ghosts. And it was much more beautiful than scary. It was just this theme that was happening there were 100 of them, and maybe 80 of them, or maybe 75 of them were about family and not scary at all, and about missing and love. And it was like, this is better, and this is so much more beautiful, and better than spinning heads We ve got the spinning heads ones, we ve got those really scary ones. So we really did decide that the film is about connection to the other side connection to the dark side. It s about how to recognize and how to understand, when family pass on and come back and try to say hello to you. You know, those really beautiful stories. And we thought that s a much more empowering and powerful place to go for the documentary, for the film in a sense you know so that was the criteria in the second step was to try to make something much more beautiful than scary. It was such a beautiful point of view it s a much better path to help people, when people die, to help them recognize that death is not the end in a sense it s probably the beginning. Q. And did that surprise you, that tone of the stories that came in? A. It did. But then it didn t because I realised that s actually what I ve been looking for. What I personally in life, would be looking for, you know, when you think about it is there an afterlife? Do you have an opportunity when you die to come back and visit your grandchildren and give them one last cuddle, you know? Those are the questions that I am interested in, in my life and in cinema I was originally looking for the scary stories because you know, that s how you kind of connect to the multiplexes in a sense, and that s kind of actually not really what I am about, and I should be making films that I want to see; that make me understand who I am and how I fit into the world; and you know what s going to happen as I get older and pass on. These are bigger than cinema questions; these are life the meaning of life kind of questions. And after watching The Darkside, hopefully, you won t get the answer I am sure, but it ll help you refocus the question. Q. And following on from that what s your take away from it, from going through this process? A. It s interesting going through the process of making the film, of working with the actors, working with the original storytellers, choosing the stories and then creating it it s sort of you do really understand that there is something more death is not the end or this is what I believe anyway
death is not the end I have an opportunity to do things after death, and that s kind of made me feel a lot more comfortable about my death, when I die, when I pass on you know I don t want to but it makes you feel more comfortable about the concept which is good. It s a good thing it s a good thing for me in life let alone just one film in my journey as a filmmaker. Q. Can you talk a bit about the practical process of making the film from when you shortlisted the stories, to how you ended up with what s on the screen, and how you shot it? A. People telling personal ghost stories, especially Indigenous people, and non- Indigenous people obviously humans that we all are It s interesting that you can be looked at as a bit of a kook, as a bit of a fruitcake; you see ghosts you know, all that kind of stuff it s like saying, I ve seen a UFO once, you know, it took me away and did experiments on me. So people go you re a bit weird. So we kind of designed the film, I always had it in mind that we d get the stories off these people, they d be true stories of what happened really to them. But then I d made it clear that I wanted to get an actor in to play that person, and re- enact the interview, not re- enact the scenario of the story, but just re- enact the interview whether it s on a beach, or around a table in a kitchen having a cup of tea, just them telling the story. But using an actor so that it gave the freedom of them being able to just really go to where they want to these are the storytellers because we were just audio recording them we didn t have cameras there because cameras can really build barriers in between interviewees and interviewer in a sense so it was like, No we re just going to record it on sound you tell us the whole thing, and then I ll get an actor to play you doing that interview And I think that people became much more comfortable about that. They weren t so worried about the scary camera and you know it being in their faces in that sense so that was designed, and that s how we went about doing it. It was the first time I ve ever used the data camera. Which had its pro s you know there are some great things about them, and bad things about them. But it worked fine... I always sort of was against data cameras because I ve had a very luxurious life with film, but I really enjoyed it, in the end. You ve got to get over it it s going to be around forever film is dead, long live film. It was a very enjoyable process. It was an incredibly small crew we had me, sound recordist, Kath the Producer, Simon Morris the camera operator, and Annie Beauchamp who did the design, that was pretty well it and occasionally if it was a bigger lighting set up we d bring in a gaffer. But it was really really small and we d kind of do one story a day and we d do probably 3 a week in a sense, so it was really slow, and the process was just really thoughtful, and productive in that way. We waited for the right actor to be available and scheduled around that. Small crew, the smaller the crew the longer you can go, and the calmer it all is that s how we designed it. The edit has been incredibly long, and it s been quite hard work the edit, and we had to put in some hard yards with the sound mix but the mix is really beautiful. I really enjoyed that part of the process. Yeah it s been fantastic. Q. And do you want to talk a little bit about finding the locations and what your guiding principals were for the shoot and how you wanted it to look? A. We found some old anamorphic lenses from the 60 s, some Japanese lenses Hoyas or some bizarre name I ve never heard of before they were really beautiful - all scratchy and hairy and you know they got all crazy as if there was a lens flare and um that kind of, was the beginning process. When we put one of those lenses on and it went all soft and gooey and sort of beautiful in a sense it was like right this is such a beautiful lens, let s back it up with a beautiful image so we were really really careful about the choice of location, with simplistic but really beautifully composed, anamorphic frame, true anamorphic. And it really created this beautiful journey from the lens, to the casting of the characters, and then to the background, and the location we actually put them in was
really started through these crazy old lenses. So we brought in a location hunter and said we wanted these beautiful kitchens, beautiful verandahs that will really suit the lens and suit the style of the film the simplicity, and it all just folded out that way. And Annie [Beauchamp] the designer found some incredibly beautiful places it was an absolute pleasure. Q. So talking about the actors you ve gone from working with non- actors and hardly any dialogue in Samson & Delilah, to working with quite a lot of well- known Australian actors and wall- to- wall dialogue? A. I ve always had sort of a certain phobia towards actors you know and having to re- align your direction to do with each actor you re working with, and what their needs are and that sort of stuff. Whereas, if you work with first time actors, non- actors, they are very much more gullible to be able to mould, to the way you as a director work. You know what I mean? So you have to sort of grow up when you start working with you know people who ve done a hundred movies more than you, which is a good thing! I had a bit of a phobia towards actors and it was like right, let s go all the way. Let s get you know Sacha Horler, and Deb Mailman and Bryan Brown and let s go to the people I believe who can pull off these stories, because with these stories I really only wanted to do two shots. It s not a cutty film it s very much these very long there s one take that is around about 12 minutes long in the film. And this is a monologue from an actor telling a true story from someone. So I needed the best in Australia to act, and my little phobia towards these people being you know, not really knowing how to direct them I had to grow up, and get over that. And I had to rise above me in a sense and become a real director (laughs). So it was gorgeous it was fun and they looked after me and I thank them! Q. So can you talk about the casting process? A. As far as the casting goes I am kind of a bit out of the loop about who s around and who s hot and who s not, and who s available and all that sort of stuff. And obviously we got Anousha Zarkesh [casting director] to come in and help with the casting. But a lot of the casting came from Kath Shelper [producer], she really knew after us choosing the scripts and reading them through. Her suggestions were much more, she had a much better finger on the pulse about who would be good at this role, and that sort of stuff. You know, so she helped that was a sort of massive forward thing for me, because I kind of didn t really know who could do these roles and who couldn t, and who s done a lot more theatre, you know what I mean, and who can help with those massive takes, and that sort of stuff. So she had a lot to do with, a massive amount to do with the casting the choice. Q. What would you like audiences to take away from this film? A. There is a belief and, it s kind of like don t be afraid of the dark, you know. Don t be afraid of death it s not the end. Death can some times be a good thing in a strange way. Or good things can come from a death in a weird whacky way. It s a film that I believe that if you re searching, or if you ve got a question, it might help focus the question I don t know if there will be an answer for you, but it ll focus the question about the afterlife and what you maybe want out of it, or what you maybe think. And I think that s a good thing. It s a film about love. It s a film about connection to family. I ve heard some people say that, especially when parents die when children are young, that when you are a child and your parents die they believe that their parents never really died they are still there somewhere. And that s the truth of the matter. You know, it s not like they went on a holiday and they re just sort of in the Bahamas and you re stuck in a private school as an orphan, but they re there they re still trying to connect to you; they re still around you; they re still checking on you; they re still worrying for you in
a sense. And I think that s a really beautiful thing. And through the film we try to recognize that, and you know; there are some scary stories in the film. And it is about don t be afraid of the dark, you know what I mean it s a beautiful thing. Indigenous people and non- Indigenous people have a great connection. This is something that s not about culture or who s been around longer, or who owns the land it s a shared experience. Because they are firsthand stories, they are stories from people who are around today, you know, it s not people who have actually passed on but they are still around today so it s a collective experience that the whole of Australia and the whole of the world owns. It s something that we can all take part in which is the afterlife and the dark side. Q. It s interesting how there s a lot of the stories in the film are non- Indigenous people who have had some sort of Indigenous experience, and was that important for you to include those stories in the film? A. Yeah, totally. You know there were a whole lot of stories that came from non- Indigenous people who have had an Indigenous experience and it was incredibly important for those people to have their voice because they have the right for their story to be told, just as much as an Indigenous person. You can have a vision, or you can have a journey with an Indigenous ghost, you know what I mean it s not like an exclusive this side of the wall is for blackfellas, and that side is for whitefellas doesn t work that way with ghosts. They share all journeys it s kind of beautiful. Q. And can you tell us the story about the song Goomboon s Lair? A. I had a meeting in Broome with Jimmy Chi about another film and another story, that he s interested in me helping out with, and I told him about what we were doing, and Jimmy, who s an incredibly amazing playwright and songwriter, said, Oh I have a song that I wrote quite a long time ago. And he sung the song for me. And it completely freaked me out it was so beautiful. And he just did it completely acappella, just sort of clapping his leg, and he sung this incredibly beautiful song called Goomboon s Lair. And I went, Wow can we please get you to sing it in the film, or do something really beautiful. Jimmy s a bit frail, so he gave us permission to get someone else to do the song. So we got Jack Charles to sing the song, which we have used over the closing credits. And the really interesting thing about this song, Goomboon s Lair, is it s about going to the cinema as a child. And watching an outdoor cinema so at night going to the cinema and watching the film; and then having to walk home; and walking home through those streets of Broome where slowly a pack of you as young kids; and I remember this as a child too, when I was a child in Alice Springs we used to have a cinema called the Walk In, and we used to have to walk home afterwards at night you know at about 10 or 11 o clock at night. And you d be a pack of kids and you d be walking along and be all cheery and happy. And then slowly, as you d go down different streets, other kids would pair off and generally being the poorest kid on the block, your house was at the end, the last street, where there s no streetlights. And you had to do that last walk by yourself, you know, after watching a movie, and it was so beautiful that we, not only that Jimmy gave us permission to do the song, but it ends the film in a sense so, after watching The Darkside, you listen to this song, which is an incredibly classic kind of Christian choir song, and then you have to walk home. So it was like this really beautiful poignant thing that Jimmy gave us about Goomboon s Lair, and wanting angels to light up your way because you know that the devil could be around the corner as you walk home from the cinema