ΟΣΤΗΡΙΚΤΗΣ ΜΕΤΑΚΙΝΗΣΗΣ M A S T E R C L A S S 49o ΦΕΣΤΙΒΑΛ ΚΙΝΗΜΑΤΟΓΡΑΦΟΥ ΘΕΣΣΑΛΟΝΙΚΗΣ 49th THESSALONIKI INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL W I L L E M 14-23.11.2008 www.filmfestival.gr ΕΠΙΣΗΜΟΣ ΧΟΡΗΓΟΣ ΧΟΡΗΓΟΣ ΕΠΙΚΟΙΝΩΝΙΑΣ ΜΕΓΑΣ ΧΟΡΗΓΟΣ ΥΠΟΥΡΓΕΙΟ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑΣ ΘΡΑΚΗΣ ΥΠΟΥΡΓΕΙΟ ΑΝΑΠΤΥΞΗΣ ΧΟΡΗΓΟΣ ΒΡΑΒΕΙΩΝ ΚΟΙΝΟΥ YΠΟΣΤΗΡΙΚΤΗΣ ΑΕΡΟΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΩΝ D A F O E Υ.Π.Α. ΥΠΟΣΤΗΡΙΚΤΗΣ BUSINESS ΥΠΟΣΤΗΡΙΚΤΗΣ ΙΑΤΡΙΚΗΣ ΠΕΡΙΘΑΛΨΗΣ ΧΟΡΗΓΟΙ ΕΠΙΚΟΙΝΩΝΙΑΣ 49o ΦΕΣΤΙΒΑΛ ΚΙΝΗΜΑΤΟΓΡΑΦΟΥ ΘΕΣΣΑΛΟΝΙΚΗΣ 49th THESSALONIKI INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL 14-23.11.2008 www.filmfestival.gr
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L Georges Corraface Βλέπω είστε όσο ζωντανή είναι η θάλασσα σήμερα. Μου φαίνεται ο Willem και η «Σκόνη του Χρόνου» ξύπνησαν τη θάλασσα στην ειρηνική Θεσσαλονίκη. Θέλω να σας παρουσιάσω σήμερα έναν άνθρωπο που στον Όλυμπο των ηθοποιών στέκεται πάνω-πάνω. Από πάντα, τον παρακολουθώ και τον παρακολουθούμε και μας έχει προσφέρει πάρα πολλά δώρα. Όχι μόνο σε μας, αλλά και στους πάρα πολύ σημαντικούς σκηνοθέτες της σύγχρονης κινηματογραφίας με τους οποίους έχει συνεργαστεί όπως τον Martin Scorsese, τον David Cronenberg, τον David Lynch, τον Allan Parker, τον Oliver Stone και πάρα πολλούς άλλους στην Αμερική αλλά και στην Ευρώπη, όπως με τον Lars Von Trier, και βέβαια με τον δικό μας, τον Θεόδωρο Αγγελόπουλο. Επίσης, έχει κάνει μια καταπληκτική δουλειά με ένα θεατρικό γκρουπ που έχει ιδρύσει, το Wooster Group. Έχει γράψει και με τη γυναίκα του, την Giada Colagrande και μία ταινία. Είναι ένας άνθρωπος με πολλά ταλέντα, αλλά το πιο μεγάλο του ταλέντο είναι η μεγάλη ειλικρίνεια με την οποία αντιμετωπίζει ό,τι κάνει και ιδιαίτερα κάθε ρόλο. Τι άλλο να σας πω; Να σας πω ότι ήδη είχε μια σχέση με την Ελλάδα, με την ταινία που έκανε ο Martin Scorsese από το βιβλίο του δικού μας Νίκου Καζαντζάκη και σήμερα με τον Θεόδωρο Αγγελόπουλο. Θα θέλαμε να τον ευχαριστήσουμε και γι αυτό βέβαια θα καλέσω τη Δέσποινα Μουζάκη επί σκηνής για να του απονείμουμε το βραβείο «Αλέξανδρος». Θα καλέσω τώρα τον καταπληκτικό μας Γιώργο Κρασσακόπουλο. Welcome, Mr. Dafoe, welcome to everyone here today at another masterclass. Georges spoke about you coming from the theatre. You started working on the theatre and you still work on stage. How has this background and work there changed the way you work in cinema and how has cinema changed your work in theatre -if it did at all? When I started as an actor, I knew it was to be a theatre actor. That s the culture I come from. I suppose pretending is pretending, performing is performing, acting is acting. I think the theatre just trained me in how to play with actions and finding the character through actions. You said, pretending and you said acting. What s the difference between the two? They are the same thing. So, why use two different words? You need a little variety. Otherwise, I would be pretending, pretending, pretending. So, your first true role was in a film, Heaven s Gate by Michael Cimino. Technically, that s my first studio movie. When I was starting out, I was acquainted with a lot of independent filmmakers, like 8mm filmmakers or homemade filmmakers, the downtown scene in New York. Actually, I made some films a little before that, but they were not really regular features. And then you had some very interesting roles in films like The Loveless by Kathryn Bigelow or To Live and Die in LA, but the movie that really set you apart and made your face recognizable and made you a star was Oliver Stone s Platoon. It was your fist Oscar nomination as well. You missed him by a couple of days. He was here at the festival. I think we could see a clip from that movie. (screening) I know that you did a boot camp in order to play this role. Was it an important preparation for you and what do you consider as preparation? How do you prepare in order to dive into a character?
4 9 ο Φ Ε Σ Τ Ι Β Α Λ Κ Ι Ν Η Μ Α Τ Ο Γ Ρ Α Φ Ο Υ Θ Ε Σ Σ Α Λ Ο Ν Ι Κ Η Σ M A S T E R C L A S S E S For Platoon, it was very specific. We did do a boot camp, which sounds very big -actors love to talk about how they prepare for a role- but it was quiet, innovative at this time and quite in-depth because we were trained by a bunch of Vietnam vets and they had a great stake in not having this be a silly movie. They a great stake in trying to tell this story, so the best way that they could do that was to train us to be soldiers as best as they could. Of course, it s a totally imaginary situation, but if you give over to that exercise and dig really deep, you ll see they gave us very concrete things to work on. They really taught us how to do things. I really did know how to set up an ambush. I really did know how to clean my weapon. I really did know what it s like to get two hours of sleep for three weeks. I slept in a hole. I really did know what it was like to be cold in the jungle. It helps a lot with the pretending. And when you prepare for a role, it s always different. Sometimes, you feel the need to do a lot of research and sometimes really you can find a trigger very easily; not easily, but something occurs that is that trigger for feeling that you are this guy or you can tell this story or you can do the actions that you need to do in this landscape. So it s always different. Sometimes it s just a costume, like with David Lynch in Wild at Heart ; if you know that movie, it was prosthetic teeth. Sometimes, it s an accent, in the case of Tom and Viv where I played Eliot. I got a wealth of stuff to read because he has a very well documented life as far as biographies and critical essays and then his actual work. So for some things you read a lot, for some things you practice a lot, for some things you do very little. And does this trigger have to come during the script reading, while you read for the role or does it sometimes come during the shooting? You know, I think it s natural that you like to prepare and you like to feel ready. And sometimes you don t know what it is going to be and you decide that your preparation starts when you re shooting. But more often, it s natural to have some tricks up your sleeve or have a language or have something to start with and then feel free to get a map once you start although you don t need it. But you always need a place to start so you are not passive and you don t make a stamp out of it and if it s not correct, you make an adjustment. And when you had to play Jesus, for instance, did you start by doing good deeds? That s actually a good example of trying to do as little as possible. If anything, that was a perfect case in which I needed to cleanse myself of any expectation and any pressure; also, it was a role that, as the story was told, it was very reactive. In the story it s a character that is acted upon. For that, all I did was read all the different gospels and that was pretty much it. I read a couple of philosophical things about love and forgiveness and that was it. I just had to cleanse myself of an anticipation of what I thought the role needed to be, which is also easy if you have a lot of faith in the director. It s not so easy if you don t have a lot of faith in the director. That s why it s nice to see strong directors. We could now watch a clip from the movie where you not only play Jesus, but you have a scene opposite a cobra, which is even trickier. Let s see that. (screening) You spoke about the importance of the director. How was it working with Martin Scorsese? What were your expectations when you started the film and how did this collaboration work? It was great. He gave me a great setup. He had made this movie in his head many times and he was very precise about what had to be done. Also, it was a very low budget movie. It was very low
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L budget and under very harsh conditions. So it was a kind of low-budget energy shooting, but also had the sureness of a big budget movie, because he knew the material so well. So it was a great role with this great setup -we shot in the middle of Morocco- and Hollywood and the world couldn t be further away. So it was a good way to really disappear into the story. But you always have these bad expectations. You always hear these stories about the movie New York, New York, where he shoots a hundred takes and then comes back the next day and shoots the same scene a hundred times more. I think we shot about three takes maximum on most of the shots. So it had a kind of imagery and a kind of precision considering the material, because with this material you could lose your nerve. Scorsese is a director everyone speaks highly of. What in your opinion makes a good director for your line of work? What is the director that helps you like? A director that is dying to make something, that gives you a good setup, trusts you, is clear and gives you the room to make his/her story your story. That s always the trick. It s always a trust game and a place of that person inviting you to be an agent of their story or their fantasy, allowing you, sort of inviting you, and then letting you lead them into the story. You spoke of Wild at Heart a while ago and I couldn t think of a director whose style is more different than Martin Scorsese s and this is David Lynch. And I would like to see a clip of you as Bobby Peru, who is quite a character. (screening) So, how can you make a character that is sort of like a cartoon look so dangerous at the same time? I believe I know what you re talking about. I don t know. I don t know. You play your actions and you try to disappear into it, but I wouldn t go as far as saying that the guy is a cartoon. Did the costume help you get into the role? Terrifically. This character does not exist in the world. He s a totally invented thing, but somewhere there was a mask that was handed to me on a hanger and I responded to it. And of course the scene is well written; the dynamics of it are very good. It s a wonderful scene. You did movies like Tom and Viv and Faraway, So Close! and then you did a movie with Madonna, which was a big failure. How does one prepare for failure? How do you feel about this movie now? Philosophical. I can t hear people say it is a failure, because somewhere deeply I know that if it was released slightly differently, the timing was a little different, if there was something else in the news, if people hadn t been sick of Madonna being a bit of a sex pot, maybe it would have been more well received. I look back on it and it s something that I did. It makes way for something else but I can t quite get behind saying that s a failure and I can t quite get behind abandoning it. It s something I did and there are good things about it and bad things about it. Do you think that failing in a way helps you? Absolutely. There s no success like failure and failure is like no success at all, right? No, it makes way for things. I can t think of anything more oppressive than having what is perceived as success after
4 9 ο Φ Ε Σ Τ Ι Β Α Λ Κ Ι Ν Η Μ Α Τ Ο Γ Ρ Α Φ Ο Υ Θ Ε Σ Σ Α Λ Ο Ν Ι Κ Η Σ M A S T E R C L A S S E S success after success. Failures loosen you up. They put you up on track. They throw you off yourself. They shake you up. Oppressive, you said. What do you mean? The expectations they have from you? The expectations and also I am a creature that wants to make good things and I want to make people find pleasure in what I do. So if something is seen as a success, there is a tendency to try to repeat those successes. It s the most natural thing in the world. I think it pleases you a little bit. Of course, it s kind of a ridiculous thing because you don t plan for failure but you don t plan for success either. You just plan to make something. Do you have a plan in general? No. I mean, I know certain tendencies, things that I try to avoid and certain things that I find myself attracted to. The only thing that guides me is a sense of engagement, a sense of pleasure and I usually find that in people, in things like a script or a role or a career choice, because that s the one thing that has always led me to pleasure and led me to situations where, in spite of myself, I can make something I didn t expect. The next clip that I want us to see is from a movie I know you really wanted to make. It s from The English Patient and I know that the book was one of your favorites. Michael Ondaatje is here so let s see a short clip from the movie. (screening) That was literally bleeding for art. Did you try to get this role? If I have the story right, I knew the book and I knew they were going to make a movie out of the book and I was aware of it, but I didn t think there was a role for me in it. And I remember at the time, for this particular role, they were talking about Al Pacino or something. And I think Anthony Minghella s wife had seen me on the Wooster Group production, the theatre production and I think she saw something in there and reminded him of me and that is what got him thinking of me and then he asked me to do it. So, I didn t actively seek it, but when he asked me, I was very happy. Do you feel that Hollywood or the industry sees you in a certain way? I m quite sure the industry sees me in a certain way, but there are other places to make movies besides the industry. I still complain about that because the industry needs to know what your effect is and generally for a studio, when they hire me, they pretty much have to know that I will make the proper effect; they have to calculate the effect of things because they have big budgets and they have to know how to sell these movies. They have to know it will be a success even before you shoot a foot. That s pressure on the studios. And then, on smaller movies, of course, they can take more gambles. So, that s one of the reasons I try to mix it up and I try to work in different arenas as well as work in different kinds of films. I just want to keep healthy as to what my options are and how I can see myself and see what kind of stories I can tell, because I think that s important for me; the great part of making movies is the adventure of it. It s the desire to disappear in the stories and so to do that, you have to be a little reckless and not exactly knowing where you re going and the only way to do that is to mix yourself up by doing different things. So, it s not the money or the recognition. It s something more.
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L It s important because I want to have a career and a life, but there are all kinds of ways to make money. Recognition is important -it s nice for people just to have that- but it s also important to get acceptance when you make a movie. It s kind of depressing when you make something that you like very much and it s not seen. You once said that working in Hollywood and working in independent cinema is like exercising different muscles. Is it so easy? No, it s not easy. Once you get there, it s all about identifying what you are interested in, what your job is, who you are working with and what you are trying to do. And once you are there I feel like you then become an actor and you apply yourself. It s all the stuff before and after that feels so different and can sometimes be very alienating and sort of something that does not fit into your aspirations so well. We had a clip but unfortunately we re not going to play it. It was from the Shadow of the Vampire. It was a great movie that gave you a second nomination. Vampires can t see themselves in the mirror; that s why it won t play. I guess you can say it s based on a true story or thousands of true stories where the director lashes at the main actor. Is it something that happens a lot in making movies? I don t know that much. I hear stories but, for the most part, most movies I work on the actors basically want to be there. Usually that happens when people don t really like what they are doing and they don t agree on why they are doing what they are doing. So, there weren t any instances in your career where you had a different vision from the one the director had? Very rarely. Sometimes my instinct will tell me something is wrong, wrong, wrong and I ll express that to the director, but ultimately cutting the film is something that you have to give over. That s the dynamic unless you re the director, unless you re making the movie. So, sometimes it s a struggle and usually I try to be an agent of their impulse. We spoke of Hollywood and you have been in some big budget movies. You ve been in the Spiderman franchise; but your most recent films are made by younger directors. Is there something that you seek in a newcomer? Not necessarily; not at all. If you have options, you tend to want to work with people that you ve seen do extraordinary things and there are still plenty of people around that I haven t worked with or that I want to work with again. So, it s just a simple kind of thing with younger directors. I don t know who they are. Having said that, I had an occasion recently where I had a sense from a young director that you could work with him, because I always look for someone that has hands in the pants, he s dying to make something and they aren t corrupted yet by problems of career or the politics of being a filmmaker, which can get very thick with longer careers. And also, it allows me to roll up my sleeves a little bit in some instances and get more involved with the shaping of the movie.
4 9 ο Φ Ε Σ Τ Ι Β Α Λ Κ Ι Ν Η Μ Α Τ Ο Γ Ρ Α Φ Ο Υ Θ Ε Σ Σ Α Λ Ο Ν Ι Κ Η Σ M A S T E R C L A S S E S And then there s Europe as well. You have worked with Lars Von Trier, and now you did this film The Dust of Time with Theo Angelopoulos. What attracted you to this project? Their work, their movies. Could you talk about the filming of The Dust of Time? How was the artistic process? It was great. I basically was meant to be a creature of Theo. Theo is famous for shooting these very long, intricate takes. You basically go there -not all days but one day- and you can shoot one very long take that sometimes is ten minutes long and they are very precise. He knows what they are and he s doing his bidding and once you work yourself into whatever the shot is, you end up diving into it; entering that world in a way that is not self-conscious but serves the timing and the shape of this dance that is the shot. So, he was like a little bird speaking in my ear and sometimes he would do the shot before me and then I d copy, which some actors would be offended by, but I m not offended at all. I m happy. That s performing of the most basic level -when the director shows you and you copy. It s all about being an athlete. It s like saying you re going to run from there to there. And the point isn t running from there to there, but the point is how you get from there to there. There s a great pleasure in serving the vision of someone you respect. So it s about getting into his head and trying to serve his poetry. And you ve just finished shooting a movie with Lars Von Trier, called Antichrist ; that doesn t sound very joyful to me. In the end, it s pretty joyful but you don t feel like going down. After Angelopoulos, how was it working with Trier? How do they approach the actors? It s very different because Theo has a very structured approach. He has moments of looseness in him, but he s very precise, where Lars is almost the opposite in how he approaches the shooting day. He forbids rehearsal of any kind and you go to a room and he says: do it! And sometimes it s terrible and he says: okay, let s move on. See? That s a different way and he was using lots of different kinds of shooting. So, there s a lot of cutting and a lot of manipulation. So, really, he s begging for accidents; he wants problems to happen because sometimes it s those moments when there s something you can t plan on; whereas Theo is very different. It was really about getting into his world. Working with two very different directors back to back, it means a lot of trust both to them and to you as well. Is it something that comes from experience or is it something else? It s a two-way thing. I trust them and they trust me. The more room they give me, they stronger I become. I felt Theo s trust very quickly and that s very important. It relaxes you and relieves you of any agenda or any kind of protections you might have naturally. I m sure there are many questions from the audience, so let s take a few. It s very nice to have you here. In Greece, there are two different basic approaches on how to interpret a character and they are rather contradictory. One is to use yourself and be yourself and the
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L other one is to forget yourself. So, would you say there is a way to combine those two contradictory ways? Is it like using yourself and at the same time forgetting yourself? How do you get into the character? How do you work? I think the same thing is true generally everywhere. Those are the two approaches. I don t think about who you are and what your personality is. I believe that this is an illusion. It s something that we agree on and when you play a character, you re invited to be free of that idea of a fixed personality. And that s a wonderful opportunity, to shift your point of view, shift your way of being but still being connected to who you are. You re still the engine. But I think I m always hoping for some sort of transformation but transformation from what? Well, it s going to start with yourself. You know, I watched Bobby Peru and I said, I should just shut my mouth! I ve got a confession to make. I watched that and I enjoyed it. Normally I can t watch it, but it s been quite some time now and I can watch that and something comes alive from me. How that happens I don t know. Hi. What is your next movie? I don t know. I finished the Lars Von Trier movie last month and I really don t know. My next movie may be with Giada Colagrande who just happens to be my wife or the next one may be with Wim Wenders. Speaking of transformations, I m very curious about how you approached the role of Max Schreck since we didn t see Shadow of the Vampire and some of us here know the myth of who Max Schreck was -and you approached it well, rather interestingly for me at least. I don t know how many of you know this movie, I imagine a lot of you or some of you haven t seen it. The real story is that he s a vampire that becomes an actor to play a vampire. It was a big art house success in Greece. It was? Nice. The way I approached it was really simple. I had real role models. I had the original. I had Nosferatu ; I had a huge literal mask and otherwise mask to not hide behind, but when you look in the mirror and you have all this make-up -I had a lot of heavy make-up- you look different, you feel different and that opens the door and then as far as behavior and physicality are concerned, you have the model in Nosferatu, so you start off by copying it. And of course it s not the same, so then you start to deviate from that, but that s really the starting place. So sometimes by copying something, by finding a model, you start off by being faithful to it, but then you move away by virtue of your limitations or by virtue of what is needed in the exercise and you make a third thing. And I think that this always happens; you take yourself, it takes something else, you join those two things to make a third thing and when you ve got a strong model it s really great because it s liberating you; you have a trick -I think I talked about this before, the preparationup your sleeve which is very strong in this case. Playing the Green Goblin, how was that like? Good. I liked playing the Green Goblin but not so much as the father; and it was a movie that I liked. It wasn t really corrupt. The movie was a nice mixture between comedy and drama and it slipped between the two in a really nice way and also for a big production it wasn t corrupt. You had people that really believed in the material and were really guided by their pleasure, not just looking over their shoulder. I m sure there was plenty of scrutiny by the studio but I didn t feel it.
4 9 ο Φ Ε Σ Τ Ι Β Α Λ Κ Ι Ν Η Μ Α Τ Ο Γ Ρ Α Φ Ο Υ Θ Ε Σ Σ Α Λ Ο Ν Ι Κ Η Σ M A S T E R C L A S S E S This is a question from somebody who saw the movie this morning and he was wondering whether you had the history behind the story you were telling; whether you were aware of the history behind the story in the movie. I was. That was one part of preparing for the movie, just so I knew the references and what we were dealing with. But so many of Theo s movies I love for these poetic human size moments, next to these huge canvasses of history in the face of people, in the sense that they can t control it. I suppose that s very Greek. Ms. Bistika You haven t received an Oscar but have had many nominations. Do tell us; it would be useful for us because we all applaud you as a great actor and we like you today as a man; my friend here said that you are treating us well as an audience. The other big actors don t. What do you think it takes to be awarded an Oscar? Sincerely. Timing. Ms. Bistika More, more, more. I think at this point the Oscars have become so refined in their lobbying and in the press to try to get the nomination and there are whole campaigns made to win Oscars. First time I was nominated, I found out because my boy s babysitter called me up in the morning. When I was nominated the second time, eight or ten years later, I knew there was the possibility. I had talked to all these people and all this press; I knew what time they were announcing and I was going to work that day and someone was going to wake me up at 4.30 in the morning so if I was nominated, the TV crews were going to be there. I think that answers your question. There are huge campaigns now and they are controlled by money. That s not to say that something good isn t rewarded; it s just that a certain kind of movie becomes Oscar bait or Oscar-worthy even before it is shot, just by the selection of the actor, the support it is going to get and things like that or whether the material is serious. We all know these things and it gets a little more and more predictable. (off-mic comment) No, it is what it is. Bitter? No, because I m not in that game. But if I am in that game and lose, then I will really be bitter. The two nominations I got were total flukes. They came out of nowhere and I m very proud of that. It was kind of being on its own sting, like a dark-horse candidate in politics but I m more talking about the machine. The machine isn t just invented. We all are connected to it and we all support it one way or another. Καλημέρα σας. Καλώς ορίσατε στην πόλη μας και στη χώρα μας. Ήθελα να ρωτήσω το εξής: Είναι προτιμότερο ο σκηνοθέτης να σας πει: θέλω να μου ενσαρκώσεις αυτό το χαρακτήρα. Θέλω αυτά και αυτά τα πράγματα, αλλά θέλω να μου δώσεις τη δική σου προσωπικότητα ή να σου πει θέλω αυτό το χαρακτήρα να τον δουλέψεις έτσι και τίποτα άλλο; I m good with both ways. Sometimes it s a little hard to get started if you know what the effect is going to be but you don t know how to get there. Theo used to say to me: and now there will be a long shot. And he d say it in Italian and in French. And you d take a glass of water and then: You cry!! Okay, Theo, maybe I could cry? No, no, CRY! And I cried a lot but I don t think it s in the movie! One thing about this idea of taking something from your past or taking something in your personality and then injecting it into a scene was very good for some actors, but for me it doesn t work so much because you have to anticipate what the effect is on your own.
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L I can deal with it if a director or somebody or something outside me says: this is what the effect has to be. Then I can work towards that. But if I am an actor and I am saying: in this scene I have to be sad, I m not good at standing outside myself and making those judgments, like building a character that way. I m much more comfortable finding the character through applying myself to action and as I said, pretending. So, to do substitution from my life, classically like at that funeral I was very sad; I ll think of those thoughts and I ll apply them here, it s only useful if you know what the effect is. And I m not so interested in that. That s interpreting something; interpreting means translating for the audience. I don t like to do that. I prefer to do things and to not quite know where I m going with them and they will take me somewhere and if there s a good director, he ll guide it and he ll frame it and it will mean something for the audience. But I don t know if that will be necessary. And maybe that s a little bit irresponsible, but it allows you to address impulses and feelings that you can t explain and allows us to have more poetry in what we do and then think that we know a story and we re presenting it to the audience. I saw the film this morning and there were scenes you were required to perform with the camera in your back, so we can t see your face. What do you actually do then in terms of pretending? It s the same whether the camera is here or there. I m playing the same. Sometimes I ve worked on movies where I didn t know where the camera was. For better or for worse. Sometimes you know exactly where it is; for better or for worse. Sometimes it can be liberating and sometimes it can make you deeply self-conscious. There is something like a legend or a curse around actors that have impersonated Jesus Christ; either they had health problems or bad luck. But, as far as I know, you broke that curse. We hope. I would like to ask you how hard it is to impersonate an icon about which many people are prejudiced. I think that clearly from the Kazantzakis book and also from the design of this movie, the plan was to forget that he is an icon and really address the human dimension more. So I didn t have to address that so much. Hello, Mr. Dafoe. It s great to have you here. You talked about directors and actors but you didn t talk about screenplay writers. Basically you have worked with some great screenplay writers. I wanted to ask you how big a role a good screenplay actually plays in a movie. Can a good director and some great actors change a lousy screenplay? Usually, screenplays are changed a lot in the shoot, mostly by the directors and less by the actors; sometimes sporadically. For me, normally, it s a blueprint and when you get there, the movie takes on a life of its own. It s a blueprint to make something. I don t think it s a piece of literature that we can interpret on film. There are movies like that and they are great, but that s not normally what the activity is. Screenplays are very important and a good screenplay is a beautiful thing and you get all excited and you can t wait to be involved with one. But normally I can never tell. Maybe I m bad at reading screenplays. I said it before. I m much more attracted to situations and people because I don t trust literature. 10
4 9 ο Φ Ε Σ Τ Ι Β Α Λ Κ Ι Ν Η Μ Α Τ Ο Γ Ρ Α Φ Ο Υ Θ Ε Σ Σ Α Λ Ο Ν Ι Κ Η Σ M A S T E R C L A S S E S Mr. Dafoe, I have two questions. First of all, what are your impressions of Thessaloniki and its people? That s two questions? No, that s the first one. Okay, I got here last night so I don t have a lot to say. But to be honest, it looks very beautiful and I love cities on water. So, I have a beautiful view from my hotel and last night I went out for dinner and walked along the water where all the bars are and I thought that people really have a good time here. I know it was a Friday night and a lot were out, but it has a good feeling maybe because it s a university town and there are a lot of students. I don t know. But I had a good feeling so far. Now the second one; is it possible after the conference to take a picture of you with my sister? Sure. Thank you. You know, I m tempted to say something else about my first impressions of the city but where s my wife? Okay. Hi. From Jesus Christ up to T.S. Eliot, it seems that you have chosen to represent both sides of this dualism that represents good and evil, as we understand it. Do you find that they actually are unified? Do we see one whole or are there two different aspects that throughout your career you managed to represent? This is one part of the question. The second part is: playing great figures, like T.S. Eliot or Jesus Christ, does it have some sort of moral weight in your conscience after the years or is it just a job that is done and then you completely forget about it? Thank you. I want to be simple. But good and evil exist together and it s really circumstance that allows one to come forward. Characters reveal through circumstance. Fiction characters don t when you re approaching them; and of course you ve heard it before but it s really true: you don t judge the characters; you just try to give life to them. You re trying to be them; you re trying to see their point of view. It s an exercise in empathy, really, to play those characters, good or bad. As for the other part, yes, it should give a moral weight. Maybe I m a little brat. Once you sit with something, you get comfortable with it and you forget. It s like in real life; working in films and being in the presence of someone that I really admire, but this whole thing takes time and then you see the human side of it and then you deal with that. So, whatever it is, I trust myself. I don t know about moral responsibility. I trust myself so I don t have to think so much about that moral responsibility. Unfortunately, we only have time for one more question and I think the lady there has been very patient. Hello. (male voice) Where is your hair? 11
M A S T E R C L A S S E S 4 9 t h T H E S S A L O N I K I I N T E R N A T I O N A L F I L M F E S T I V A L I believe the film industry and especially the Hollywood industry kind of freezes the actors in some roles. This has happened to great actors, like Al Pacino, the Mafia guy, or Jack Nicholson, the psycho guy. So, have you ever felt that you have been frozen in a role and are there some characters that you couldn t even try to play? When I was younger I was probably more concerned about type casting, but as I do more movies I get asked that. But at the very beginning I was very conscious of it. I was basically playing that heavy villain. As for your second question, there have been a couple of occasions where someone asked me to do something and I would say: you know, it s interesting, but I think it s not such a good role for me not because I m there to win prizes but because I think you have to work with what you have and you can adjust it with certain things. There are certain things that you can t just change. You have to be humble about what your capacity to change is and what is coming off you and you ve got to measure that. On many occasions, the director has usually said: you idiot, that s why I want you to do it. If you were closer to this character, I wouldn t be so interested. I want you to go towards it; I want to find the air in it. That happened with many roles. So, something like T.S. Eliot, when I played him, I was a huge fan of his work but I knew nothing about him personally and I felt this is stupid. He s tall; he s more English than the English. And the guy said: yeah And I said I m 1.77 m tall and I m a kid from Wisconsin and I m an actor, I can change, but I don t think I physically have enough to work with. And he said: no, I want you to go toward it. And I think -I don t know if it was successful or not- it was interesting enough for me to try. That s all for today, I m afraid. I want to thank you all for being here. Thank you,. 12