The Liberty Buzz Liberty County Beekeepers Newsletter www.libertycountybeekeepers.org September 2013 Mission Statement: Sharing our passion for honey bees with our local community through education and assistance. Liberty County Beekeepers is dedicated to the preservation and the art of beekeeping. Meetings on First Tuesday 6:30 pm Business Meeting 7 pm Beekeeping Program Meetings at the Agrilife Extension offices at 501 Palmer Avenue, in Liberty, Texas, just south of Hwy 90, under the water tower. Officers: President John Tucker Vice President Clifford Silveria Treasurer Ron Bentley Secretary Cameron Crane Board of Directors: Dennis Cox Mike Eubanks Raymond Lahti Robert Morrison Anthony Samilo Gregg Simpson Patrick Tamiggi Welcome to the Liberty County Beekeepers MEETING TUESDAY Sept. 3rd - 6:30pm Business, Program at 7pm. Program topics: 9 vs 10 frame in brood boxes, 1 or 2 brood boxes and getting ready for the fall flow! Meeting Minutes August 6, 2013 Liberty County Beekeepers Vice President Clifford Silveria opened the meeting. Eleven members and visitors were in attendance. Treasurer s Report that we had 17 paid members bringing in a total of $340 that the checking account was set-up with. Afer the cost of check, the ballance will be about $315. Much discussion was had on ideas for fund raisers. Good points were made about focusing on membership and community outreach to solidify the group before to much emphasis is placed on fund raising. Cameron and Ron brought up the subject of having a bee school in the spring. Some one needs to be sure meetings are announced in the Liberty County Gazette, advertising should be free for our group. Agreement that we need to have a Board Meeting soon to establish guides and direction for the group. The Business was closed with a prayer. August 2013 Minutes, Cameron Crane Secretary LCB On the agenda for this month s business meeting: Bee hives at the gardens in Liberty. A bee keeping basic class for the gardening group, maybe as part of our October meeting.
Brood Boxes: 9 frames or 10 Those who made it to last month s meeting of the Liberty County Beekeepers may recall the slight exchange between Dennis and I, near the end about having 9 frames in the brood boxes when there are supers with 9 frames. Did my face and expression give away how shocked I was at the suggestion of running only 9 frames in the brood box? Many believed that 9 or even 8 frames in a super will provide more honey per box. With less then 10 frames in the super, they are spaced out and the bees will draw the comb out further making it deeper. The greatest advantage to having few frames then 10 in the supers is that the comb extending out past the frames is easier to un-cap and provides more wax. Even the bees believe in wider honey comb. I ve done many removals where the outer combs are packed with honey and are as much as 2 thick- sometime more then that. Brood comb in natural hives is also much thinner and closer together. A couple days later I went to researching the whole 9 or 10 frame brood configuration. Wow, what a can of worms... it s a little more complicated then just the pros and cons of 9 or 10 frames. It seems that a number of people run 9 frame brood boxes with frames all put together in the center, or to one side. Then you have those that shave down their frames a little bit so that they are more naturally spaced and putting 11 frames in the brood boxes. Holy cow! Yet, another choice. The more I bee keep, the more I realize how little I know and sometimes I wonder if I m not just a Bee-haver. After my initials research of this subject, I was still dead set that 10 (or 11) frames in the brood was the way to go. I d decided this was a good subject for an article. I proceeded a few days ago to continue my research to establish a good list of pros and cons on the subject. Upon my further investigation I m still of the prospective that weighing the pros and cons that frames tightly together and a full compliment of 10 frames in the brood box is the best way to go, but I do see some merits on the other side of the issue. It s not so black and white. Ok, enough with the introduction on to the tid-bits and facts... First let s be clear, when talking about supers- there are a number of opinions about the number of frames to put in a super- BUT, the general consensus is start a new super with 10 frames: that is one with just foundation, let the bees draw out foundation (build comb) while there are 10 frames. This helps keep the bees to making comb that is more even. The next year when you are adding supers with frames of drawn out comb, you pull one and have only 9 frames and space then out. So the question at hand becomes: when I have 9 frames in my super, how many frames should I have in the brood boxes? As best as I can tell, the most common set-up if a beekeeper does not stay with the traditional 10/10 in all boxes is to have 9 frames in the supers and 10 in the brood. Most beekeepers seem to prefer using ten frames in the brood boxes and for good reasons. Using 9 frames in a brood box also has it s own split: 9 frames spaced or 9 frames together. Those running 9 frames together do so simply for the reason that it is easier to remove frames from the brood box and keep the frames pushed close together for the reason those who run 10 frames in brood boxes- it s better not to have brood frames spaced out. I don t see the issue or problem doing inspections with 10 frames in a brood box so I ll pursue the issue of 10 or 9 frames in a brood box when you are running 9 frames in a super with the perspective that we are talking about spacing those 9 frames the same as the 9 frames in the super. Let s look at the pros and cons of each. I was reading through all of the Walter T. Kelley News -Modern Beekeeping and saw this editor s note: Editor s Note: Because if you ask ten beekeepers the same question, you may get at least ten different answers,... Our recommendation is to read, research, and discuss to figure out what s best for you and your bees. There are few black and whites in beekeeping. Well put Camilla! - Walter T. Kelley s newsletter is free and well worth the time to read. www.kelleybees.com/ - website where you can link to the newsletter and sign up to receive an e-mail when the next one is released.
10 Frame Brood with 9 Frame Supers This issue has been going on for over 120 years! It seems the frames were made wider when the whole removable frame fad started in the mid 1800 s. By the end of the century many beekeepers had experimented and found frames closer together had advantages and made beekeeping easier to manage, quotes from the days of old - as found on Michael Bush s website: Frame As before mentioned, each stock hive has ten of these frames... The width both of the bar and frame is 7/8 of an inch; this is less by 1/4 of an inch than the bar recommended by the older apiarians. Mr.Woodbury whose authority on the modern plans for keeping bees is of great weight finds the 7/8 bar an improvement, because with them the combs are closer together, and require fewer bees to cover the brood. Then too, in the same space that eight old fashioned bars occupied the narrower frames admit of an additional bar, so that, by using these, increased accommodation is afforded for breeding and storing of honey. Alfred Neighbour, The Apiary, or, Bees, Bee Hives, and Bee Culture with frames 7/8 of an inch wide, spaced just a bee-space apart, the bees will fill all the cells from top to bottom with brood, provided deeper cells or wider spacing is used in the storage chamber. This is not guess-work or theory. In experiments covering a term of years I have found the same results, without variation, in every instance. Such being the fact, what follows? In answer, I will say that the brood is invariably reared in the brood chamber the surplus is stored, and at once, where it should be, and no brace-combs are built; and not only this, but the rearing of drones is kept well in hand, excess of swarming is easily prevented, and, in fact, the whole matter of beekeeping work is reduced to a minimum, all that is required being to start with sheets of comb just 7/8 of an inch thick, and so spaced that they cannot be built any deeper. I trust that I have made myself understood; I know that if the plan indicated is followed, beekeeping will not only be found an easier pursuit, but speedy progress will be made from now on. Which are Better, the Wide or Narrow Frames? by J.E. Pond, American Bee Journal: Volume 26, Number 9 March 1, 1890 No. 9. Page 141 Note: 7/8 plus 3/8 (max bee space) makes 1 1/4. 7/8 plus 1/4 (min bee space) makes 1 1/8. Pros -Frames are already designed further apart than the bees would prefer and spacing them any further usually results in burr comb or even an extra comb in between the frames. - closer to natural spacing helps / encourages them to think of the comb as worker comb. - more worker comb = Less drone comb. - More frames of brood in a box = more babies. - Earlier spring build-up (the cluster is a cubic foot or so regardless of what frames / comb is in there) so if the bee-space was right in the brood nest, they could raise more bees sooner and therefore build-up faster. - With a 10 frame brood box people can lessen the risk of killing the queen etc by removing the outside frame first, to open things up. - In some areas of my country, one brood box can be used, and for that I would recommend 10 frames. And yes, it would have to be faster. But where I am, the season is long, warm, and moist. If only one brood box is used, the hive will swarm, guaranteed. Two brood boxes have to be used to allow for swarm control manipulations to be done. Cons - The frames would no longer align vertically - this would cause confusion, congestion as the bees have to change direction moving from brood to super. (claims on both sides of this happening and not happening or being a problem or not). - Best practise is that you have to remove a frame from the outside to make room to pull out center frames. - from a commercial perspective, the extra step of starting every hive with taking the outside frame out would equal time, rather than going straight to where the action is, the middle. - In practise, if you have a brood nest of two deeps, 9 frames in each is all the comb a queen needs. 10 frames each is a waste of two combs.( a reply to the above statement: Good points Oldtimer. I will see your 18 deep frames, and undercut you with 10 in one box, pushed to the far side of the box before closing. I bet I can work my 10 faster than you can your 18.) Folded. You and your set up will beat me and my set up in a race to do the most hives!
9 Frame Brood with 9 Frame Supers Pros - Frame would align top to bottom making it easier for the bees to travel up to the supers. - There will be more cluster space, less swarming and less rolling of bees. - ease to manipulate and inspect frames - the cost savings of one less frame. - here are a couple comments in on-line forums: + Some of my hives have had some burr comb on a side wall with 9 pushed together but most are doing just great with nothing on the sides but space. Some hives are better with 10 some with 9. If you spread frames apart the combs will get thicker when nectar is stored in them. I would then be afraid I would roll a queen. I find it easier in some hives to have 9. + I m with you, right now 9 works for me, I think it does give me a tiny bit more wiggle room to get frames out of the box for inspection, but yeh they still draw out the honey band at the top of the frame more unevenly which I don t like to deal with. I have thought of going to 10 frames but it gives me chills thinking how tight that is to work with, I know its more natural spacing for the bees, but don t we always do what is more convenient for the beekeeper. Cons -requires more bees to keep the brood warm. -Irregular comb, causes more rolling of the bees: Due to honey storage comb can vary in thickness but brood comb is always the same thickness. Where they have honey, they fill the extra room with honey. If they have brood then it is not as fat as the honey= greater high and low areas. - 9 frames promote burr comb. -I don t like 9 frames in the brood nest. They build honey sticking out further than the brood so the surface of all the brood combs is in and out depending on if it s honey or brood. Some research has shown that tighter spacing helps prevent nosema (or since the bees prefer the tighter spacing maybe I should say that the wider spacing contributes to nosema). (Michael Bush) - give up the extra frame of cells for the queen to lay into or for pollen collection So, lining up pros and cons is not so easy in beekeeping where the world is full of grays and not much black and white. AS I stated earlier, I m still of the belief that 10 frame in the brood is the way to go. I m curious as to what my own experiences will be with the effects of the transition the bees have to make going from 10 frame brood to 9 frame supers. I had to see this difference and not just look at a graphic representation of it. So I set up two dummy boxes and loaded them with frames: 9 over 10 and then 9 over 9. Here is the 9 frames over 9 frames. Upper box representing the super and the lower the brood box. Brood frames are spaced the same as the honey supers. all the frames line up and bees can move straight up between any of the frames. They still have that gap between the top of one frame and the bottom of the upper frame to deal with.
Then we have the 9 frame super over a 10 frame brood One the ends here it is not much different than the 9 over 9 - the frame are close to aligned. But as we move closer to the center the off-set increases. This would cause bees traveling up through the center to have to zig-zag as they moved from one box to the next. There seems to be ample room between the top of one frame and the bottom of the next not to create too much trouble. How many of the bees bringing in nectar to store are traveling up the center? Or a little of to the side? or all the way on the side? I just might have to take these two dummy boxes and finish them with a plexi-glass side to be able to watch what the bees do. I m also thinking about adding upper entrances to my supers next year - then no worries about congestion problem. I ve tried to present both sides. I see reasons for only having 9 frames in the brood- BUT I personally thing that if you are going Frame #5 - #6 the middle run only 9 frames in you brood boxes, keep them pushed together to maintain a proper bee space. You will have far fewer problems working your hives if the brood frames are not spaced out - in my opinion. Joyful beekeeping! - Cameron Crane
Honey Bee Swarms and Removal A Swarm is a beekeeper term for a ball of honey bees outside generally in a tree or grouped on another structure. These are bees that have split from a hive somewhere looking for a new home. Swarms are typically much easier to collect, but not always as you can see in the picture at the right. They are not flying in a hole or inside a wall. There is no honey comb. A Removal is a process of removing a honey bee colony that has built comb and set-up a home these often require some type of de-construction to gain access to where the bees are. A proper removal will remove the bees and all the comb/hive associated with the bees. If all the comb is not removed it creates a major pest problem because without the bees to protect the comb, babies and honey, it rots becomes a feeding ground rats, mice, hive beetles, wax moths etc. What will it cost? Often newer and starting beekeepers will come collect a swarm for free with in a reasonable travel distance. Tipping them to offset gas and equipment is nice. Generally a removal (cut-out) will cost. This can vary greatly depending on difficulty. Typically it starts at a couple hundred dollars. The State of Texas requires a beekeeper who does removals to be permited. That annual permit, equipment to remove, knowledge, time and travel are quite an investment for the beekeeper who does removals. These beekeepers are also interested in saving the bees and do not use any chemicals to kill the bees. Who can I contact about my bees? Liberty County Beekeepers neither guarantees nor endorses services offered by individuals listed below or any other members. This list is a referral for people with a honey bee problems. John Tucker Email: jtucker@samsonco.com Dayton Texas 77535 Cell: 936-641-2704 I do swarm captures for free within 30 miles of Dayton and will do cut outs at a price agreed upon by both parties. My services will yeild minimal damage and I recommend a great guy that can fix anything I cannot. I also give salvageable honey to the land owner. I am very flexible and can come quickly in most cases!! I look forward to helping with your honey bee needs! Removal permit # BR-13-183 Anthony Samilo Email: michaela.holland88@yahoo.com Crosby Texas 77532 Office: 832-830-2352 Cell: 832-762-1184 Covering all the greater houston area and 50 miles around free estimate on any removal and free swarm removal 30 years plus experience in construction minimal if any repairs during removals please don t hesitate to call if assistance is needed with your bees. Removal permit # BR-13-186 Cameron Crane Email: cameron@cameroncrane.com Baytown Texas (409) 658-3800 Available Evenings and weekends. Free Swarm collections within 25 miles of Baytown. Removals for Harris, Chambers and south Liberty County. Removal permit # BR-13-206 Ron Bentley Email: bordermarch@yahoo.com Anahauc Texas 409-594-6318 Available Evenings and weekends. Removals for Harris, Chambers and south Liberty County. Removal permit # BR-13-217 SWARM Collection: Dennis Cox: 615-612-9150 (north-east Houston) Terry Aucoin: 281-462-7520 (Crosby) CONTACT CAMERON to be added to this list and on the website list.
Staying Connected and Contacts Contact Liberty County Beekeepers Email: info@libertycountybeekeeper.org If you are looking for someone to remove bees, please see our Swarm List. OFFICERS President: John Tucker 936-641-2704 President@libertycountybeekeepers.org Vice President: Clifford Silveria VP@libertycountybeekeepers.org Treasurer: Ron Bentley treasurer@libertycountybeekeepers.org Secretary: Cameron Crane (409) 658-3800 info@libertycountybeekeepers.org You can send one email that will forward... to all the officers officers@libertycountybeekeepers.org to all the Board of Directors BOD@libertycountybeekeepers.org to all members and beekeepers in the liberty area Members@libertycountybeekeepers.org The Liberty Buzz is archived on our website: www.libertycountybeekeepers.org Know a beekeeper in North East area of Houston, Cypress, Jersey Village... Tracy Mathews is working on starting a group in that area. He is enthusiastic enough to go from no hives to 19 hives this spring. Contact Tracy at 832-227-1866 Tracy@mathewselectrical.com Suggestions, corrections and submissions are always welcome for the website and the newsletter!