Interview with Louis and Charles Rycenga Taped December 31, 1974 L Louis Rycenga; K Ron Kuiper; C Charles Rycenga?: Ya, That s what it was. It was on the wrong side. K: That s what it was.?: It was on the wrong side of it. K: December 30, 1974. We re at the corner of Robbins Road and Beacon Boulevard, turning right. K: December 31, 1974. Louis Rycenga You lived through the Depression, you lived through the 30 s, and I m wondering how it affected you personally, both businesswise and maybe in your homelife. You know, how it affected your diets and all that kind of stuff, those two areas. What what did it do to you businesswise? Were you still in this business, or were you then in this business? L: Well, we were in business. We were in business. I ll tell you what. We started in the wood business, cord wood business. We brought the wood to Dornbos Fish House over here to smoke fish with. And we would buy a chunk of timber out in Robinson or back of Spring Lake and we would cut this wood. The big stuff we cut into logs and make lumber out of it, and the little stuff we cut into cord wood. We took care of Dornbos Fish House several years and brought them all their cord wood for smoking fish. We hired people to split it and pile it behind the Fish House and that s the way we started. And then eventually, we went to buying carload lumber from the West Coast and then we started in the lumber business. That was 28 years ago, 28, 29 years ago. K: About what year was that when you were providing L: 46, probably 46, that we started buying K: Okay. How about prior to that? C: From the start though, we sold wood, cord wood, to the home for fuel. L: Yes. C: During the depression. That was basically during the Depression that we split wood and sold it for, I think, $1.50 a cord. L: $2.00 a cord. $2.00 a cord. C: $1.50, $1.75, that was low
L: Two bucks. I think two bucks was about the lowest. One guy sold three cords for $5.00; we never went that low. C: No. L: My father my father started this and Chuck and I worked for him, see, starting this kind of a business. The cord wood business. K: That was really a legitimate legitimate business for the Depression. People had to have heat, didn t they, in the wintertime and so that was something that at least had to sell. L: Sure. That s right. C: All summer we would build up an inventory and have, oh, hundreds of cord of wood in the on the land, you know, where they cut the wood L: Dried it. You know, cut the wood and it dried. C: It burns better that way. But then they d get a cord of green and a cord of dry wood because the dry wood would start and then they d throw the green on to hold the fire over night. K: It would burn longer. L: We cut fireplace wood. We cut fireplace wood for fireplaces, like 2 foot wood, for fireplaces. C: We started with an old Model T and then we had another L: We had a sawmill at one time. We had a sawmill on M-45 and the blacktop over there. C: That was at the time my dad was killed, right when we had the sawmill at M-45 and the blacktop. K: M-45 and where? C: What s the name of that road? You know where the blacktop uh uh L: Know where the blueberry farm is? K: Ya. L: Right on the corner. K: 144 th? L: 144 th, kitty corner right across from. We had that whole piece of ground; we had 160 acres. K: Where that little restaurant is there that keeps closing down and opening up?
L: No, the other way. On this side of the street. K: Oh, I see. L: We had teams in there and they logged just like they did years 20 years ago skids and sleighs and everything. We had teams and sleighs and old steam engines. We cut the thing with with with power from a steam engine. K: You don t have photographs of that do you? C: We did have. You know that was really something. I remember I had a cutter. I took one of the old horses out, you know, at night and I was just like..would go through the woods with the cutter. And I was going through over the meadows, you know, and all of a sudden, it went right into a hole and the horse pulled right away from the (laughing) and, oh, man, I went right over the top, sliding on the snow holding onto the reins. That was about one of the first dates I had with my wife. L: Oh, ya? C: Yes. That was L: You borrowed one of those horses? C: I borrowed one of the horses and I don t know whether I borrowed one one of those old cutters, you know. We were going through the woods and Cooky and Marge, they were with us, and we were going to take turns. And here I was about a mile or two away from where we parked those horses and I was walking back with the horses...or the horse, and he was excited L: Ya. We had a big white horse. That was just about as big as a team that was a powerful horse. And then our steam engine guy got killed one night. He was going on a toboggan down hill and he hit a tree and it killed him. He was our team man. Do you remember that? C: Ya, ya. L: Sure, in the middle of the night. C: And when we had the sawmill I ll tell you. One of those little things that go choo, choo, choo, you know, and all the suction would come down and all your clothes would be holes and that because they d catch you afire and you d go running around putting the fire out in the coats in the winter. That was something. And then from there, we first started in Spring Lake L: Well, the first land we cut, Chuck, was in back of out past Felix s, that s the first piece we got. C: Clarks. Clarks. L: No, not Clarks. It was that first it was beyond Felix s about a mile and the land was the first piece that Dad and I worked on. Ya. And then we went out to Clarks.
C: Ya. L: and then we did about 40, 80 acres out at Clark s and went back to Spring Lake. Back of Spring Lake we had about 80 acres. C: State Road. L: State Road. C: Well, we had more than that. There was about 160 acres out there, because that went way back to that other land. That other area. K: Now when you were working at these places, did you have somewhere else that you hauled the lumber to process or cut it, or did you do what you were going to do with it right there? And then deliver it from there? L: Right. C: We didn t process it into drying it or using it in a plane mill. We just sold we sold a piece of the ground to someone in the rough lumber and they built a house with it. And we got a small downpayment and my dad L: $25.00 down and $25.00 a month. C: For I don t know how many years. L: In Shanty Town, they started a Shanty Town. The called it Shanty Town. C: At that time, they did their own building, everybody did their own building. We charged $25.00 a thousand for oak and $30.00 a thousand for pine. K: So you sawed the lumber into board right on the site where you cut it. L: Sometimes. K: Sometimes. L: I got a picture of that one old truck we had, that International that dad and and and Thomas C: Thomas Thomas Art Thomas that had the store down here, his father worked for us. They cut the first load. L: They cut some of the first lumber for us. C: That s quite a history back of when you think of Art Thomas has become pretty successful in his field. L: Mm-hmm.
K: So the Depression in the 30 s didn t really hurt you guys too much, because you had you happened to have a business that would not close down. L: We made a living, ya. We were lucky if we had five bucks at the end of the week sometimes. K: How did it affect your lives at home? I m interested in interested in any reaction from any Grand Havenite about that. L: Well Chuck and I I ll tell you. We moved on a farm in 1925, on this farm. And we learned to work from the time we were little kids. That was the best education we ever got, as far as for preparing us for this type of work, because we just we just worked hard to get this business started when the other guys all had it established all the lumber yards were established. Baker s been here since oh, a hundred and some years. Van Zylen had been here for years. Christman has been here for years. Well, we outworked them, that s what we did. And the only one left is Baker. But we had we always had plenty to eat because we had a farm; we raised our own vegetables, had our own cattle, pigs and chickens and all this stuff, too. Where I lived, that s where we had it on Griffin Street there. And we always had plenty to eat and we got along fine. We had wood to keep warm with and we were not we were not rich or anything like that, but we always had enough to eat and clothing and shelter. C: I think that the property we bought out there, wasn t that $1,800 in 1925, Louis? We just got the deed here on that property. L: Ya, I was just going through that yesterday. And that was interesting. One of the things that was interesting I worked for Van Zylen Lumber Company when I was in high school in the 30 s. And my grandfather worked for Van Zylen Lumber Company and hauled lumber with a wagon and team. And he fell and broke his neck. And you know that they didn t have pensions in those days or disability pension you know but Mr. Van Zylen paid my grandfather for years and years, $12.00, because he had gotten hurt with his team of horses. He was a great guy, Van. Mr. Van, we called him. And my grandfather only lived four doors down from the lumber company. It was where Beacon Plaza is now. And then I worked there in the office and got a little background in the finished lumber. See, this is where K: Ya, if more employers had been that way prior to the time of the labor unions, we may not have had them. Uh were you around when the banks closed? Obviously, you were. Do you remember the lines at the bank? Were you downtown when the banks closed? C: We didn t have any problem here. Our banks were both conservative and they were K: They didn t close down? C: Our banks were both conservative and pretty well established. They were closed, but only because the Government said they had to be closed to re K: Roosevelt s bank holiday.
C: Yes, but ours never went broke. They never closed down after that. They ve always been open. L: Yup. K: And people who had their money in the banks were able to get it out when they needed it. L: Yup. Mm-hmm. I think you might have had to wait given them time, maybe 60 days, or maybe a couple months, because they didn t want a grand rush on the thing. But Ted Bolt can give you the history on that. I know he s told me many times they looked out the window and people was they never did form a line or run on the bank, but they were always aware of it. C: They had a fear of it, you know, because it had a pretty good start. But we had some pretty good banks here. You know, they are pretty stable, both of them. K: Well, I won t take any more of your time. It was interesting talking with you people, but I know you are busy. L: We worked hard. That s the thing that helped. My dad used to milk cows at 5 o clock in the morning and bring the milk up to Warber s Hill, we called it, and go to work in a shop for 9 hours, Challenge Machine, and then he d go home and milk those cows at night until about 7 o clock. And he went through the routine 7 days a week for several years. And we sold milk for a nickel a quart and we brought it around to all the neighbors for a nickel a quart. C: Well, you and I milked cows until we got married. L: Oh, ya. And we hated to do that, especially on Sunday. C: You got to stinking pretty bad, you know. (All laugh) L: You know, here our girlfriends our girlfriends..i was going with my wife then and we took turns, we had to take turns with the chores. I ll tell you we had to work. And that s one thing that s wrong with this generation. You can see it. People don t want to work. Work is a bad part of it. Look at the psychology in the car industry. Our generation of people that worked it s the new generation that they re having trouble with today. If what s happened to work I know work is monotonous, but what isn t monotonous when you get right down to it? C: Louie, I think we have to look at it this way, too, that even in our day, there were lazy people. They didn t want to work either. There were those that traveled around from here and there. We we look at it so different because we ve got businesses and we ve got young people. And if we just pick it up from where we got it here. They think of putting in their time and amount of paycheck rather than watching things grow for profit. L: Ya, ya. C: Because this is the greatest thrill you can get in business it s when are you accomplishing from year to year growth. (Noise) And these young people, the young people we have working for us, it s
up to them. We ve got good people. I mean, there are some that you can see they only work for they watch the time, they take long yesterday, 20-24 minutes for lunch break in the morning. L: Now you re not talking about a dinner break, the dinner break? C: Lunch break. But now they re going double, see. And then when its 10 to 12 or so, they re quitting, they re thinking about quitting. And they don t want to get on time, you know, might be five minutes late or so. And it s usually the same young people. The older ones that have been with us for 15, 20 years from Allendale they drive in everyday they re on time. 7 o clock, they re here. 7 o clock. You look at their timecards for years and years L: 10, 15 years. C: And even in a snowstorm, they re on time. L: We had to fire a couple young guys because they wouldn t come to work on time. And even when you warn them, they still won t do it, you know, 24 times a month. And they don t have another job either. It don t make no different though. (There s a great deal of noise on the tape at this point) This this today because young people C: sometime in the future. I read this last night. Here s one of the best little books that I ve seen on business and everything. and that s Harold Swartz, you know, Harold Swartz real estate. everytime I go about real estate, he always wants to talk about it. The good old days, you know. I mean, he he he just enjoys, see. Not but Henry John. L: Henry John, is it? C: From way back, you know. Well, he ll be 62 next month. K: Well, I ve talked to him and I don t have the equipment to take pictures of pictures. I know he s got all these old these boats. He s got a superb collection of pictures. I ll have to go and borrow them, or take my equipment to his house. But he knows something that C: in Coopersville. L: Did he live there once? C: Oh, sure. I remember that. K: And the Klan is still clannish. That is, they won t talk. Bill Oldenburg and I interviewed Harold and there was quite a bit of that going on in the Reformed Church. And one man whom several people have told us was at least very sympathetic with the Klan was Reverend Skippers. L: Skippers? Oh, ya, I know him. K: Of the Reformed Church.
L: He went to the Reformed Church. K: Joldersma told me that somebody else. Well, I talked to Henry Tysman a couple of days ago. He was so interesting. He was the first one who really who really told me a little bit about that business. He said that L: (Noise) only 64. Ya, I know some of the guys made their own beer and stuff like that. But Robinson was the place We d go to the show Those farmers, they d go to Jackson for a little while and then they d come back and they had a still in their back yard. Old Bill Metzler and a few of those. A few years later, they d get him again and he d go back to Jackson and sell all his cows. And we d buy his cows. (All laugh) Ya, and Mary Peabody. C: Mary Peabody. She was the one that known throughout Robinson moonshine. L: And then Krompotich. C: Ya, he did too. That was later on though, by Henry Casemier s. L: Well, they moved here from Chicago, you see, a lot of guys. They moved out in Robinson and they had their stills out there. There s a whole bunch of people out in Robinson. K: But they won t talk. Mrs. Pytlinske, from Felix s C: She d know. K: Ya, she ll talk a little bit. She took a picture of a still, one of the old stills. But she didn t want to give it to us because her husband was on it. (Laughter) C: Is still alive? K: No. He died. C: Oh, did he? K: Ya, and I know his wife but C: She s a Wiebenga. K: I m really afraid C: He was another one from out there that we knew. L: But I don t think he had a still, but he always had the liquor. C: He knew about it. How about Tony Wolff?
L: Tony Wolff. C: How about his dad? See, he s 89 years old and he lived right next door to Bill Metzler. Maybe you could talk to him. He s still living. K: Is his mind pretty good? I know his son, Bob, pretty well. L: Ya? You know where he lives? Didn t you teach in K: I taught at Robinson. I don t know exactly L: Well, it s just down the road a little ways from Robinson School, before you get to Robinson School. But maybe Wolff Tony Wolff, he s know more than anybody. He d be close to well, he d be up in his 80 s. C: Oh, he d be older than that. K: Is his mind clear? C: I don t know. I haven t seen him for years. I haven t seen him for years. When we were kids, we used to go there because he worked with my dad in the shop. So I know Tony Wolff and some of his boys. If you know Bob, I d call him and ask him. K: What about Spivak, is she still alive? C: Ya. She was like, what would you say? She was the one. L: he s still alive. He s an old drunk. He s an alcoholic. He worked for me for years and he knows all the and he s in the nursing home, the Grand River Nursing Home. K: K I E K E N? L: K U E K E N. August Kueken. He had both his legs cut off and I betcha he could tell you all about Robinson. C: Oh, man, yes. L: He d be up, at least close to 80 now. He would know. He worked for me and he d be drunk half the week. He d know the stills and he d know C: Oh, ya. L: Diedrich (?) would too, but he s dead too. Diedrich, he s another one out there. C: There was another one, too. This great big guy oh, Joe Appleby. He s been dead for years but he was another one.
L: If Wolff has got a good mind, he d be good. Or Augie Kueken at the River River because they lived right in the middle of it. K: interesting story. C: My mother lived there, that one house on the end of DeSpelder Street, and she was born in that house. That house must be at least 90 years old because she s 84, isn t she? L: They called it Pigtail Alley because everybody had pigs they had a pig in their back yard. K: Didn t Henry Tysman live there? L: Sure. He s our uncle. See, my mother was a Tysman. That was her brother. K: Oh, he s a nice guy. L: I don t know if Uncle Ollie C: Ollie Tysman. L: Yes. He likes to talk about those things, too, doesn t he? C: Ya. We used to get him talking about the war, World War I, and he d tell us about World War I, see, because he was in the trenches there in World War I. When we were kids, we d always ask him to tell about the war. L: Ya. C: He could tell you stories Well, he ain t quite 80 yet. L: He must be about 78. K: Ya, well, that s okay. I d like to talk with him if his mind is clear. L: Oh, ya. His mind is good yet. C: He s 88, Henry Tysman is 88. K: Yes, I know. L: Well, he was just 88 this week. My mother is 84, see. K: I I couldn t get out of there C: great great grandfather. We ve got something home that was written, a history of it. He was, I think, the third or fourth family in Zeeland. So that family goes back a long, long time. L: Someone wrote the history of it and we ve got it back home.
C: Maybe you d like to it s about Holland and Zeeland. K: Oh, I d like to have that. The library will copy anything I want copied for nothing. C: Mm-hmm. K: I d like I would like that. L: It s real interesting. C: They floated in and out of there. New people were coming and going to Holland and Zeeland. But Zeeland was actually, I think, one of the first places maybe even before Holland, wasn t it? K: No. No. Cornelius Vander Mulen was the leader, and Holland was the first one. (End of Interview)