PBS To the Contrary Trump Sex Scandals; Starbucks Equal Pay; Deb Haaland Host: Bonnie Erbe March 23th, 2018 Panelists: Carrie Lukas, Donna Edwards, Lara Brown, and Linda Chavez. PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS PBS PROGRAM TO PBS TO THE CONTRARY.
Bonnie Erbe: This week on To The Contrary... First, all the president's women. Then, Starbucks achieved pay equity in the U.S., will other companies follow? Behind the headlines, meet the woman who wants to be the first female Native-American in Congress. [ ] Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbe welcome, to To The Contrary a discussion of news and social trends from diverse political perspectives. Up first, presidential scandals... more trouble for president Trump and his alleged extramarital affairs. An ex Playboy model is suing to be released from a 2016 contract barring her from speaking about an affair she says she had with Donald Trump. The National Inquirer paid Karen McDougal $150,000 for her silence, and she is suing the Inquirer s parent company, American media whose C.E.O. is Trump's friend. She is the second woman to bring suit this month arguing that contracts to silence women who have had sex with president Trump are invalid. The other woman, adult entertainment star, Stormy Daniels, real name, Stephanie Clifford received $130,000 from the president's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. The watchdog group Common Cause charges the pay-offs were illegal campaign contributions. The Trump legal team is suing Daniels for $20 million, claiming she breached her contract. So, Donna Edwards how much of this type of behavior will the president's base endure before enduring before they dessert him? Donna Edwards: Well I think it s pretty baked into the base but thankfully 60% of Americans find it intolerable. Carrie Lukas: I m sure that the base largely has gotten used to the idea that the president has a checkered past, but this is not what anybody hopes the focus would be right now. Lara Brown: And certainly, I think it's going to hurt him among some of the constituents that voted for him in 2016 election, in particular, college-educated white voters in the suburbs, and even some of the blue-collar women in other more rural areas. Linda Chavez: I think the base is willing to stick their collective heads in the sand, and then when you push them on it they stick them up and say butcorsuch.
Bonnie Erbe: So talking about the Evangelical base, the only reason that he has not yet gotten rid of his attorney general and some other prominent people who have lasted. How long are they going to put up with this? If you re supposed to be about family values and, loving God and acting right. Lara Brown: But it does not work that way. I did my dissertation on political scandals and looked at the issue and one of the realities is scandals and character only come into play in the primary elections. In a general election people would more prefer to have people who agree with them even if they are not of such great character than they would somebody of the opposite party with stellar character. When have you ever had a president -- I don't know going back into the 1800's maybe, but certainly since the second half of the 20th century, we've not had a president who has this much of this kind of scandal. Lara Brown: Well, I mean, I think we obviously had A couple years of president Bill Clinton engaged. Bonnie Erbe: I m just saying that is one instance. and that is my next question is that ever going to happen for Trump, and what are the differences between the two? But I also, yeah, Clinton it was -- there was a ton of media coverage leading to his impeachment and it went on for months and months. Lara Brown: We should also that there was multiple women, there was Jennifer flowers before he was elected, and then there was the lawsuit with Paula Jones, and the allegations from Juanita Broderick, so it is true that president Bill Clinton had what his campaign referred to as bimbo eruptions. The most fascinating piece what is happening at this moment, is that the women are not being demonized, and seen it's the mistress' fault, and there's question in the #MeToo moment about what is the responsibility of the man? Linda Chavez: And I do think if you look at some of the recent elections, women are turning against Trump. Those women who voted for him are in fact turning, that I think is his most vulnerable group, I think the Evangelicals are lost from my point of view, from somebody who considers herself a conservative, but they seem owe willing to forgive and forget. How are they lost when popularity ratings which were down below 30 are now?
Linda Chaves: I mean they are lost to people like me. they are much in his camp. I think you know if you talk to them and I do they will say well that was ten years ago, he s found Jesus and is a different man. I see no evidence of that. but they want to believe that and they do. They stick their head in the sand and they re all about let's protect the right to life and if he gets us good judges he can do anything. Whether if you found something in the present if it was found he was doing something right now, maybe they would turn I don't know. Carrie Lukas: I think one thing if you think of the some of the how conservatives have experienced the how we talk about men and women's relations and going back to the Clinton years, there was a lot of focus on Republicans always elect the good guy and want to have a man who is of the utmost character, and is a great loser and willing to go down with dignity. A lot of people felt that the media double standard when it comes how to treats Democrats and Republicans. And washed their hands and said. Bonnie Erbe: If this were a Democrat in the White House you do not think that the Republican Congress would be pushing for impeachment? Bonnie Erbe: I think the media would be handling it differently and would be much more where they were with Clinton. If I can speak on behalf of conservatives there are a lot who are basically compartmentalizing and saying, I do not like the behavior I wish he had not done it in the past, if something illegal comes out that is a different ball of wax but right now we are focusing on tax cuts, deregulation, judges and doing a lot of what conservatives consider the damage undoing the damage of the Obama years and will swallow a lot to get that done. Donna Edwards: Well so, I think for Evangelicals there is no more return to righteousness after this election. When you look at the special elections what you see is that that sort of swishy middle in there is going over to Democrats whether it's Alabama or Pennsylvania. I think you will see that play out in election after election where people are engaged in a referendum on the Trump presidency and particularly on Trump's behavior. And let me just say if Barack Obama his major scandal, the tan suit is this man had been having a relationship or revealed relationship with a porn star and Playboy bunny he
would have been run out of Washington. There is a double standard and Donald Trump believes that he can throw caution to the wind he can do anything he said that to his voters I will do anything. Bonnie Erbe: Describe to me how would you compare what Bill Clinton did with Monica Lewinsky and the other women he had affairs with, to what Trump is doing? Do they compare? Is it just as bad? Is it worse? Donna Edwards: I was not happy with Bill Clinton and what he did. and he was impeached around those issues. But what I will say is that here in this moment and I think we are in a different time, a different set of social media, a different understanding about what is appropriate and what is not and a willingness to speak out about that, and it is appropriate to be judged in the time in which you are. and he is being judged now by the electorate who made a decision they are done with this and we've seen that in special elections, and we will see it double fold in November. Carrie Lukas: Bill Clinton was not impeached for having had an extramarital affair, he was impeached for lying during a sexual harassment case. Bonnie Erbe: They are never impeached for the underlying crime, and they are always impeached for lying to the prosecutor for lying to the prosecutor. Linda Chavez: Let's see what happens with this president and the Russia investigation, and whether Republicans would impeach him if he turns out that he lies under oath, I do not think they would. Lara Brown: But there's more serious issue, too with the lawsuits from the women because what we're looking at is this possibility of illegal campaign contributions. In other words, whether or not the president's personal attorney, Michael Cohen helped negotiate and give money on behalf of a candidate which is illegal while you are running. So, there are real questions from a legal side that do not involve necessarily the affair, they involve the hush efforts to keep the affair quiet. Donna Edwards: And that is a huge potential problem but they re not getting to that anytime soon. The real question is whether Russians had over him and that is where this is important.
Bonnie Erbe: We ll have to keep watching, follow me on Twitter @BonnieErbe. From unprecedented charges, to a pay equity milestone. Starbucks says it has eliminated the gender and race pay gap in it s U.S. workforce. the company is sharing principles and tools that executives meet their 100% goal to inspire other businesses to follow. Starbucks has not closed the pay gap worldwide, but executives say they are committed to doing that and will continue investing in workers even if it means foregoing a lift in the short-term stock price. On average women earn 80 cents compared to $1 for men in nearly every industry, from top tech jobs to Hollywood women have been found to earn significantly less than men working in the same position. So, Carrie, is this something for women and minorities to celebrate? Carrie Lukas: It's absolutely, it's interesting and good news that Starbucks is trying to prioritize providing additional paid leave for employees and boost wages for workers. But I d like to take a step back with the way we are talking about the wage gap because I think some of the statistics can be misleading and I worry a little bit as we focus on trying to zero out a statistic that we lose a lot of the nuisance because there s a lot of studies that show it's actually not the women in the same positions as men who is earning 80 cents on the dollar, it s that women tend to take on different roles than men do, working fewer hours, even when were full-time workers, prioritizing things like family, and not working the night shift, and we have to allow compensation to shift. If you want to work the graveyard shift you deserve to be paid a little bit more and that may result in men earning more than women and that type of difference is ok. Bonnie Erbe: I thought it was absolute, it was regardless of whether part-time or full-time it was based on census bureau data of absolute dollars earned by women versus men. Donna Edwards: I think the important thing is the sector by sector. For example, in the public sector in a place where you have a lot of union organizing, that pay gap tends to decrease. that should tell us something about the conditions around which women do, do better sector by sector and job by job
when it comes to their parity with men. And this is great for Starbucks employees and hopefully it will take place across other areas of the workforce but we'll see. Bonnie Erbe: Do you think other companies will follow suit? Linda Chavez: In some ways, it's easier are for Starbucks, paying a barista is the same job, and equal pay for equal work is the law of the land and we ought to be following it. If they begin to try to make the goal of the company things like pay equity and they ignore their shareholders, I sit on corporate boards and have for years, as a corporate board member my responsibility is not to the worker but it is to the shareholders, and my responsibility is to ensure that they will get a good return on their investment. And the Starbucks price seems to be falling so it's all going to be determined ultimately by whether or not they can show that they are more profitable doing this. Bonnie Erbe: Right, and the C.E.O. Howard Schultz told a meeting of shareholders that they are looking at the long-term. Linda Chavez: And that is fine. Bonnie Erbe: And their sales are flat. Linda Chavez: And that is fine but their sales cannot keep flat, they have to increase revenue and they have to increase profits or the money that actually ends up paying for these workers is going to disappear when the stock price fails. Bonnie Erbe: There are a lot of movements out there about supporting green companies. Do you think people will go to Starbucks more because they are supporting a pay equity company? Lara Brown: I do not think that is what it's about, I think it's actually about worker retention. I think what we are looking at is the amount of time it takes to train a barista to learn the hundreds of drinks and how to make them because it is a confusing proposition at Starbucks on any one morning. But I also think that what they are doing is really fascinating because they probably are looking how do we keep our workers longer and happy and that could make them more profitable. What I'm most
encouraged by in this movement is not the specific benefits, it's the move toward transparency around how people are paid. Bonnie Erbe: Are they releasing the data? Lara Brown: They say they are doing an annual report around this, and what they are really trying to get at is how do we go about hiring people, offering them salaries, giving them promotions and how do we become sort of a professional standard in the corporate world about those types of processes and models. And I think that is good for uncovering the biases and the prejudices that are still so rife within the system. Bonnie Erbe: And you brought up the baristas, because Starbucks is a company with lower paid workers than low paid executives, is it easier for a company's structured around the work of low paid workers to equalize men's pay with women's pay? Donna Edwards: You know what I think is happening, too, is that there is a push around the country to increase the minimum wage for those low paid workers. So, it means that Starbucks is in competition when it comes to drawing in a workforce. I think this could have as much to do with trying to stave off the worker competition and factors that are really good about parity. But they are in a competition, I know when states are enacting a $15 minimum wage, it means that you are really competing out there for workers. Bonnie Erbe: All right, behind the headlines. There has never been a Native-American woman elected to Congress, but Debra Haaland could be the first. She hopes to accomplish this groundbreaking feat by running in New Mexico's Congressional district. Debra Haaland: Native-Americans are the most under represented people anywhere, in education, C.E.O. jobs and business owners. If I can help to change that, that's what I would really love to do. Bonnie Erbe: Debra Haaland, formerly chaired new Mexico's Democratic Party, and is new to running for federal office. She is running in a year that has seen an unprecedented number of women Congressional candidates run for office. Haaland sees a good part as a response to president trump.
Debra Haaland: I am part of it by virtue of my candidacy. I have, as state chair I held Trump accountable during his campaign where he was really had a lot of people under assault. And, so I have been always been very outspoken against his disgraceful conduct and policies. Bonnie Erbe: Haaland was trained by Emerge New Mexico, a political organization committed to recruiting and training progressive women from diverse backgrounds to run for public office. Debra Haaland: It is a seven-month course, you go once a month on a Saturday for seven months and you're trained by some of the best political women in the country. They give you the tools to run, you get experience by canvasing who are candidates and working on campaigns that are happening right then. In addition to all the training, you have a network of women that you can call if you need help. Bonnie Erbe: Campaigning in a low-income state presents fundraising challenges for any candidate. According to census data, New Mexico has the third highest rate of poverty in the U.S. My campaign leads in small on-line donations and 80% of my contributions come from within New Mexico and 80% are under $100. So, very proud of that fact, considering the fact that we've never had a Native- American woman in Congress I am working very hard to gain support of Indian tribes across the country and we have been successful so far. Bonnie Erbe: There are two issues that Haaland wants to put particular focus on for New Mexico constituents. Debra Haaland: Climate change is one, with respect to climate change, New Mexico is a state with over 300 days of sun per year so I feel strongly about our ability to make New Mexico a leader in renewable energy. In New Mexico, we are a poor state, about 50% of our population is Medicaid eligible. I would like to make sure that everyone has healthcare. Bonnie Erbe: Haaland was inspired to run for office in a way she feels directly relates to native- Americans. Debra Haaland: In 1968, Shirley Chisolm was the first African-American woman in Congress, and I can imagine that black people across the country were feeling their voice would finally be heard. I'm
sure she inspired many black women and black men to run for office. I'm hoping that perhaps I can encourage other people to run for office. Bonnie Erbe: You are a native New Mexican, what do you think her candidacy if she wins would do to help to inspire other Native-Americans to run for Congress? Linda Chavez: Well, I think it would be great. I also I was born in New Mexico, I grew up in Colorado and we had Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, who was a Democrat who switched to becoming a Republican. I think she has a good chance of winning. New Mexico has been a purple state, but it is trending blue now, and I think you know with the way things are going in the upcoming Congressional election, I would not be surprised to see her elected, and I think that's great. Bonnie Erbe: Do you think, you went to high school in New Mexico, do you think climate change as the number one issue is a winning issue? Donna Edwards: I think when she talks about it in the context of renewable energy that it is. Bonnie Erbe: And more jobs, so I think that is a useful way to make that segue, it is not in the abstract, and I think she represents an important moment both for Native-Americans but also in New Mexico in terms of what she will bring to the leadership table. And this is the 50th anniversary of the time when Shirley Chisolm was first elected to Congress in 1968. Deb is going to have her moment in November of 2018. Bonnie Erbe: And your thoughts about electability and the issues she has chosen? Lara Brown: Well, I think it s wonderful. It's fantastic to see more and more women get involved, and it's exciting to say there are four indigenous individuals running for Congress, and there are three running for Governor. And it appears from what I understand, about 31 are running for the state legislature around the country. Bonnie Erbe: Is this all because of the #MeToo movement? Lara Brown: Well, I think with what you are seeing is there's more engagement of more people who have felt outside the system who are saying I really want to be a part of the system, and I want to
engage with it. I'm proud to say that GW (George Washington University) has a center for indigenous politics and policies, it s funded by AT&T, and they help support young people to in fact do a semester in Washington, and learn about politics. I think this is about the new wave that we are going to see, more people engaged in more ways in more political activity. Bonnie Erbe: Does that unit have a large student body? Lara Brown: What they basically do is they work to bring young people who are in college around the country, who happen to be Native-Americans, to GW to do a semester in Washington, and we run programs for them both in the spring and the summer and there's typically about 30 students each term. Linda Chavez: You know, I just like to say as somebody who did spend good time in New Mexico, I think the Native-American population in the United States is really ignored. And this is the population that in many instances has the most desperate conditions. The unemployment rates, alcoholism rates, all of it. Bonnie Erbe: And she mentioned 50% of the state is Medicaid eligible and that. Linda Chavez: But it's not mostly the Native-American population, that is Hispanic population as well. And also in New Mexico there has been terrible prejudice against Native-Americans. So, I think there are positive things that come could come out of this, and you know, Native-Americans, I think have gotten a raw deal, and it would be nice to have somebody there who could speak about some of their issues and concerns. Bonnie Erbe: You able to talk? Carrie Lukas: It is a positive trend to see so many women getting involved. But at the end of the day it's mostly about the issues not somebody's gender or background, she sounds like she has a great story to tell. Donna Edwards: She brings a lot to the table and I think that she pointed to the importance of Emerge as a training program for women, and we have more women running than any place in the country. Bonnie Erbe: We have got to go. That is it for this edition, follow me on Twitter @BonnieErbe and visit
our website: pbs.org/tothecontrary and whether you agree, or think to the contrary, see you next week. On-line version of this episode of to the contrary visit our website at pbs.org/tothecontrary