I [of 2]-Summary-Retyped December 11^ 1961 Also present; William Russell

Transcription

1 1 I [of 2]-Summary-Retyped December 11^ 1961 Also present; William Russell (Interview conducted at home of Worthia Thomas; 2316 Washington Avenue, New Olreans, La.) Worthia George Thomas received the nickname "Showboy" 1. because he was a good show drummer? he played drums for 17 years [mostly] curing the Twenties, traveling with various carnival shows. He was born in Napoleonville, Louisiana, on February 26 (same birtt-iday as WR), 1907; he has lived in New Orleans for 41 years. Four uncles [maternal] played music; two were conservatory-trained. The uncles and tlieir instruments: Gil [sp?]leblanc^ guitar a,nd violin? Justin LeBlanc/ bass violin and violin; Adolpti LeBlanc/ guitar 7 Marshall LeBlanc/ piano. All lived in Napoleonville. WT's mother sang* The first music WT remembers was that of a brass band, led by Claiborne Williams, of Donaldsonville, La. (about 16 miles from Napoleonville)r / the band played for parades? WT was about 8 years old fet the time. The band played only regular marches, not swinging like the N.O. brass bands. The Williams band(15 pieces) played the parade for the Odd Fellows; that organization also held a dance that night; Williams used only 7 pieces for that function. The band played a variety of music; they played almost the dame style of music that today is called Dixieland, but they called it ff jazz then. Asked about quadriiles^ WT says that when he was playing drums witli John Tunking's band in Natchitoches, La. (near Alexandria, La.), they would play "Bye Bye Blackbird" for the older people to dance the quadrille to; they played it fairly slowly, in a choppy style. (WR mentions Madame Synigal and her quadrille dancers, who performed on the boat [President] a few

2 2 WORTHIA "SHOWBOY11 THOMAS I [of 2] -Summary--Retyped December 11^ 1961 years ago [1958-PRC] for a Dave Garroway television sl^ow; Lizzie Miles and Paul Barbarin were among the other entertainerso) WT was Turning's drummer for seven years;/ Tunking was from Alexandria? WT played at Tunking*s funeral/ then returned to N.0. In Napoleonville, fhere was a band led by Doctor Nelson (died about 1 month ago, says WR), fattier of Louis Nelson [trombone] and George Nelson [tenor sax, retired]; his wife (a graduate of Boston Conservatory, says -WR) was the only music teacher in Napoleonviller she 1'iad a band there. WT played his first music job, in Napoleonville, with Louis and George Nelson. Bill Smothers [sp?]^ trombone, had a band in Napoleonville; since tlien fwhen WT lived there], Ernest Himes [sp?] has corae from Donaldsonville and organized a bandy Himes is still in Napoleonville. One member of a band sang. WT and his mother were CatTiolic/ but T-iis grandmother was Baptist 7 1-ie remembers visiting her and hearing "jubilee" songs at her church. Wt^en WT was a small child^ 'he would listen to his Uncle Adolph play the guitar and sing; a favorite song of Adolph's was "Baby^ Just a Spoonful." WT bought his first set of drums (a junior set) when he was about 13 years old^ his first professional job, with the Nelson brothers, was at a park in Napoleonville for a prize fight. Doctor Nelson did not play regularly with his band, but would occasionally play his comet during rehearsals, and would play "Taps" at various occasions.

3 3 I [of 2]-Summary-Retyped Doctor Nelson was a good doctor and a good musician, WR says Bunk Johnson always called Louis Nelson "Dr. Nelson's son." * -s WT first heard "Stardust" complete with verse played by Bunk Johnson; WT was playing drums with Ike Jenkins* band/ in Crowley, La.; when JenXins needed a trumpet player sometimes, he would get Bunk to come from his home. New Iberia, La. WT, who had been living part-time with an aunt in N.O., moved permanently to N.O. in 1924, after his mother died. WT began playing drums with a band at the French Market Cabaret (riglrfc across from the French Market), on Decatur Street; leader was Georgia Boyd, clarinet (WR says Punch [Miller], with whom Boyd played quite a lot, talks of Boyd). Members of the band: Boyd^ clr Edward ["Big Head"?] Johnson, alto [sax]; old man Wallace, banjo; "Coochie 11 Martin,, piano; WT, drums. No trumpet in the band. WT mentions overhead bass drum pedals, Alfred Williams and [Louis] Cottrell [Jr.]/ president of [musicians*] Local 496 (whose father was a good, old-time drummer). WT talks about the traps he tiad in his drum set. WT mentions Paul Barbarin, things he played orchestra bells. Also some drununers played xylophones. WT played slide whistle. WT took a couple of clarinet lessons from Steve Angrum, but did not continue his study. He then bought an old trombone? he was in Alexandria then; his first lesson was with Morris French (now living in LaPlace, perhaps, says WR), then living in Alexandria. French was a great trombonist[cf. Preston ~\.A* "*^'-F^i ", f ^. ^c.son7^-'-,ka pretty.ood.eadcxaad a ^. loud tone.after 'Siearn'ing a few teongs, WT took his trombone on the Job; while keeping the bass drum and sock cymbals going, he would play a few sweet solos on trombone* He was in Tun:king(s band

4 4 I [of 2]-Summary-Re typed fhen. Returning to N.0», he took many trombone lessons from Bill Matthews? WT credits Matthews witl-i teaching 'him trombone. 1 WT says that N«0- musicians at that time played smoottaer and had better techniques than those playing in the country? there were very few teachers or opportunities to hear music in the country tt-ien. WT played drums for about three weel^s with Buddie Petit at The Entertainers (on Franklin [now Crozat] Street)7 The Entertainers was about ended [i.e., going out of business]. In the band: Petit [comet] 7 George Wasliington^ trombone; Walter Decou, piano; (be thinks) "Big Eye Louis" Nelson (Delisle)^ clarinet. WT sang "Tight Like That" with Petit*s bandj WR says Louis Armstrong made a record of the song [but this Is not the ^ r 4. } / "Tight Li;ke That that is sing* LA recorded "Tight Like This. /\ RBA]. After Petit (which was after Boyd*s band on Decatur Street), WT went witti Robert Taylor, trumpet player and sliowraan from N*0. ; I Taylor had a show called "Taylor*s Knee HigTi [or Nelii or Ne"Hi or?[ ^ Review." The year was Thereview played afc the Coliseum Theater/ and at the Li&coln Theater, which was then on Louisiana Avenue at Howard (now La Salle), where the Flint-Goodridge Hospital is now. WT traveled with the review through the states as far as Michigan^ and then to Seattle^ WasTiington. WT ^guit in Dallas, Texas to join Billy Pearson*s "Miss Broadway" show. WT mentions the "Dashing Dinah" show. In Taylor*s band^ which was small, all were from N.O. Two brothers/ Willie "Sport" Young, as^ and Austin "Boots" Young ( a geeat trombonist then ^ and later a string bassist, recorded by WR), and James Grant (piano and xylophone, who lived at Valence and Magnolia then)

5 5 < I [of 2] were in the band. The instrumentation: trombone^ alto^ trumpet, drums and piano. N.0. musicians in the "Miss Broadway" band: / WT, Lionel Ferbos (trumpet), and Antoine (tenor sax). The band played mostly just the show music/ although Professor Randolph (violin, and leader?) wrote nice special arrangements to feature the band occasionally. (WR mentions Irving ["Mouse"] Randolph, 2nd trumpet player and organizer of Louis Armstrong*s [big] band? WT says maybe the professor was a cousin of that Randolph.) [WR is thinking of Zilmer Randolph. RBA.JThe first tent show WT played with was Vernon Brothers, a carnival (WR says Bunk Johnson mentioned that shew, and played with it)? WT was playing the minstrel show connected with that carnival. The manager of the [minstrel] show was Jules "Green River" Weaver, of Dallas; he played bass horn. WT traveled a lot with * Vernon Brothers; the headquarters of the show were in Macon^ Georgia. From Vernon Brothers, WT went to David A. Wise Carnival; from tliere he went to Rubin and Cherry Number 1. All were tent E sic?] shows. From Rubin and Cherry/ WR/went"to ;C.R. Legg^ns [sp?] and from there to Sparks' Circus. He was with various shows from one to three seasons. End of Reel I

6 II [of 2]-Summary-Retyped December 11^ 1961 Also present: William Russell 6 They [i.e«, the tent shows] closed during the winter; WT would sometimes play in bands in the towns where the show he was in closed, and sometimes he would return to N,0, to play. WT comments on N,0, music, saying that it always has been different from that of any other part of the country. The N.O. bands had a more ragtime beat; the bands from the North played more sweet numbers, wittiout tlae drive of the N-0. men. WT says his style of N.O. drumming always helped him do very well in playing shows. N.O. men always had more swing tt-ian other musicians. The only shows WT played trombone in were ttie Cavalcade^ out of Mobile, Alabama, owned by Al Wagner, and Sammy Green's Minstrel Show. WT speaks of the modes of transportation for the various shows: the shows which had trains or their own cars were known as first-class shows? ttie ones which traveled by truck were called "g-illy" shows (i.e., small-time.) WT says the Bill H. Haynes [sp?] show was a gilly show. Salaries on the stiows were $25 and up? the union was not strong then; union and non-union men played together. WT talks of parading with the various shows? he mentions the Rabbit Foot Minstrel Show^ which bad a 15-piece band. Bands were cut down as times became tougher? the Rabbit Foot was down to 9 pieces when WT was last with it^ and parades had been discontinued. TT-iere was a Ma Rainey witlt the Rabbit Foot, but she was from Memphis; the original and famous Ma Rainey was from Columbus, Georgia. WT says another blues singer with

7 7 II [of 2]-Summary-Re typed the Rabbit Foot was Big Mary. Another great blues singer was Sadie McKinney^ with WT on the Dashing Dinah show; she was / [also? had been?] witti the 101 Ranch Show, which was a combined carnival-western show. Both white and colored performers worked the show. Sadie McKinney, of St. Louis (WT thinks), made some records in 1929 [c. Robert M.W. Dixon & John Godrich/ Blues and Gospel Records, ], but WT doesn't know what company. Slie had a big voice, like a man's. The minstrel bands played breakfast dances many times, after the sl-iow. When he left tlie Rabbit Foot, WT returned to N. 0. for 3 years^ then he went on the road witl-i the Clyde Beatty Circus^ remaining with that show about 7 months; that was last year 7 WT enjoyed it? be had 1'iis own 'band. WR mentions [George] "SheW [Colar]. While in N.O-, and before going with Beatty, WT played with various N»0. bands, including that of Paul Barbarin^ with whom 1-ie recorded an album (Good Time Jazz label.) WT played f / a couple of Papa Celestln, Perusing a scrapboo'k, WT names people in photographs: Jeff Kelly [leader] 7 Braz ley [probably brother of Harrison Brazley. RBA] (of N.O.)^ a trumpet player? Herbert Shotwell^ bass (Beaumont, Texas)? Freddie Coleman, guitar (Natcheg, Mississippi). Stiotwell was on the Rabbit Foot show with WT. Continuing: Howard Lanier^ ts (Lelandy Miss.); Jesse Gardner, alto sax (CT-iarleston, S.C.); Lizette Kennedy, piano (Alexandria, La.). Jeff Kelly, now deceased/ played alto sax/ was from Monroe, La.7 he had been the alto sax player ±n Ben Burton*s band, also from Monroe.

8 8 II [of 2]-Summary-Retyped Continuing: Archie "Tadpole" Martin, trumpet (NortTi Carolina); Charlie HcCoy (Mobile)7 Albert Cooper, trombone (Magnolia, t Miss.). The pictures [or one of them with Rabbit Foot show] were made in WT shows some special arrangements he got from a one-time leader of the Rabbit Foot band/ Hosey [sp?] Sapp. A photograph of Tony Almerico. One of WT in 1945^ when he was with Jay McShannIs band, in Kansas City [Missouri] (WR says he lieard McShannIs band about 1938). Photo of W.C, Handy and liis band^ when Handy was young. Photo of Jo'hn Casimir's [Young Tuxedo] brass band. [These photos belong to WT.RBA/ee, Jan. 24, 1967]. Talk of Rabbit Foot Minstrels: their headquarters/ Memphis; band rehearsed there 3 weeks every year ^ ^hen went on the road; show would close in Memphis. WT would then play with band of Memphis drummer Red Davis? they worked in West Memphis/ Ark. WT would stay there 2 or 3 months^ tlaen return to N,0. WT worked with the Rabbit Foot 14 years, altogether. Photo of Walter Barnes's band, most of whom perished in fire in Natche^. [Mississippi] about (WR says the wife of Babe Phillips was going to that dance, but didn't? her sister was there; WR believes she got out of it.) Photo of young Bessie Smith, made in 1919? given to WT by old lady with whom he roomed; Bessie roomed with same woman at one time; Bessie quite slender in pt-ioto. Photo of D-J^]^ Ellington. [Business] card of [Henry] Alien [Sr.], father of [Henry "Red Alien [Or.]. Photo of George Williams's Brass Band playing for the Odd Fellows, with WT in it.

9 9 WOMHIA "SHOWBOY" ^THOMAS XI [of 2] -Summary-Retyped During World War II, WT played with Jay McShann's band at Army bases for 3 months. The Rabbit Foot show was strictly a southern show. WT went with one show [Taylor's Knee High-see Reel I] as far as Michigan. WT went to New York with the Dashing Dinah show and with fhe Miss Brfoadway show; both were from Cfaicago. They were vaudeville showsr playing on T.O*B.A. [Theater Own^sl Booking Association] circuits- Almost every show WT played witln around the same time was on the same circuit. They didn't usually travel as far as Denver/ usually ending around Omaha^ Nebraska. Carnivals playing "still dates" (i.e.^ not playing at af a±fi) remained in a town for 6 days? playing with a fair, they would remain from 2 to 3 weeks. WR says Punch [Miller] played with carnivals some. WT never met Punch on the roadr but tias played some j obs with him in N, 0. Talk of show parades; uniforms^ grand marshall, s'how wagons filled with girls and comedians. WT^ a snare drummer in the parades then, could do tricks with "his sticks? he couldn't do as much,, however, as a drummer from Jackson, Miss., Joe White; White played with the Rabbit Foot before WT. White still lives in Jackson, plays drums, has his own band, is an old man. [See Joachim Berendt & William Claxton, Jazz Li^e [sp?]. RBA]. White was considered one of the greatest street snare drummers. Talk of length, in time, of parades, including a little concert and sales pitch by spieler. Traveling with the shows was good and bad? WT loved it.

10 10 II [of 2] - Summary- Ketyped WR says Punch considered it hard, but he "had a bad stomach..f WT says if one stays with shows a number of years, his stomac'h will get bad because of his eating and sleeping- habits. The Rabbit Foot band played all fast music on the street; the music didnlt swing. End of Reel II