RECORDED STATEMENT TRANSLATION/TRANSCRIPTION OF A SPANISH AUDIO. B: So go ahead and talk into the microphone and make sure

Transcription

1 I: RECORDED STATEMENT Q = José Ramirez A = Emiquio Ramirez Vera B = Kim Chuppa-Cornell TRANSLATION/TRANSCRIPTION OF A SPANISH AUDIO B: So go ahead and talk into the microphone and make sure we... Q: Okay. B: Can hear you both. Q: Speak into the microphone to see if we can hear you. Just tell me your, is it, how close do you want it? B: It it... A: (Inaudible). B: Has pretty good range so... Q: (Inaudible). B: You don t need to be too close. Q: She says that you you do not have to be so close. Q: That is fine like that. A: Okay yes. Q: That is fine. Get comfortable. Q: Um tell us your your name quickly? L.

2 A: Uh Mi- uh Emiquio(sp?) Ramirez Vera that is it. B: That s good and if you don t mind just telling us the date... Q: Okay. B: Before we get started? Q: In Span- in English? B: Oh anything it could all be in Spanish... B: Cause she ll she ll translate and transcribe so uh-huh. Q: Okay so today s the 27th, right? B: Uh-huh. Q: 27th. B: Yes. Q: Okay. B: Uh-huh. Q: Today s date is March 27 of 1910(sic). We are interviewing Emiquio Ramirez Vera. Um we are going to start. What is your name? A: Emiquio Ramirez Vera. Q: When were you born? A: August 5, Q: And where were you born? A: In Chilacauapan(sp?), state of Oaxaca, Mexico. Q: And where did you grow up? 2

3 A: In Patlanalan(sp?) uh uh Oaxaca, Mexico. Q: And what year were you involved with the Bracero Program? A: In Q: In March? March 3rd... A: March 3rd of Q: How old were you when you participated or or were you married or single or did you have children? A: I was 20 years old. I was single. B: Uh-huh. Q: How did you find out about the program? A: By uh people from the government from the state for they were the ones that that were in charge of those lists. Q: Why did you decide to come over? A: It was to better the economic situation. Q: What type of work were you doing during this time in other words before coming over before coming coming here to the United States? A: Uh I was planting corn, beans, uh some vegetable plants or vegetables. Q: Vegetables. B: Uh-huh. Q: And and did you have cattle you did not have cattle? 3

4 A: No. Q: No. A: No. Q: Only plants... A: Only plants. Q: (Inaudible) plants okay and did your whole family dedicate their time to growing plants or all of the did all of the people of the town do the same thing? A: Yes that was what we did. Q: You you cultivated... A: You cultivated in that area. Q: Patlanalan was a town that was more agricultural? A: Uh yes well agriculture and cattle. Q: Oh okay very good and you just lived in Patlanalan before coming to the United States or did you go to live some someplace else and then you came to the United States? A: Uh I just lived there. I had to go to a centralized center for Braceros that is named Irapuato Guanajuato. Q: Okay so then from Patlanalan you went to Irapuato Guanajuato... A: Guanajuato. Q: For a while and how long were you there? 4

5 A: It was quick because I did not take very much time it was quick. Uh I contracted myself in the Bracero Program to come to work. Q: Uh-huh what do you remember doing to prepare yourself to come to the United States? A: Saving a little bit of money to provide for expenses. Q: To get to to Guanajuato. A: To get to yes uh-huh. Q: And from Guanajuato did you have to pay to get into the United States? A: No because the person that did the contracting the United States government covered the expenses. Q: The expenses? Q: So then you only had expenses to to Guanajuato. A: Yes when when I arrived. Q: When you arrived at Guanajuato? A: At Guanajuato. Q: And when you arrived at Guanajuato did you already have a place to stay for a while before coming to the United States? A: Uh uh no those were the expenses that one had that... Q: That you had... 5

6 A: Were personal because once you were contracted it was all it was different. Q: Different. A: I mean they quickly sent us to to the center for for contracting. Q: And um what what means of transportation did you use from Guanajuato to United States how did you how did you go in an airplane uh uh... A: The... Q: A truck? A: The first time I came it was uh I was transported by train from the city of Guanajuato to Mexicali, Baja California Mexico. Q: To Mexico by train? A: Uh-huh by train. Q: Okay and were there a lot of people from the Bras- Bracero Program with you... A: Yes because... Q: On the train? A: The train was big and there were a lot of uh contracted people from different states of the Mexican Republic. Q: So when you got to Mexicali how long did you stay there before crossing into the United States? A: The same uh in the same day we crossed the border. 6

7 Q: The border. A: And after we crossed the border there was a truck there that was taking us to the contracting center in El Centro, California. Q: El Centro, California? B: Uh was he alone or did brothers come did friends come? Q: Uh-huh um did you come alone um this time or did you have brothers with you um cousins... B: Friends? Q: Friends? A: Uh I came with several family members. B: Uh-huh. Q: Oh really? How how many were there? B: Yes. A: Uh we were like seven seven... B: Oh uh-huh uh-huh. A: People. Q: Seven people? Q: From from the same town? A: From the same town. B: Oh okay okay. Q: From the town. 7

8 A: Yes my mother s brothers and cousins. Q: And cousins. B: Uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh. A: Cousins also uh-huh. Q: Oh that is nice. B: Okay. Q: And were you all the same age? A: No. Q: No. A: No. Q: Were you... A: I was I was the youngest. Q: You were... Q: The youngest... Q: Of the group? A: Of the group. B: Oh. Q: Okay. A: Yes of of the seven of us. Q: Of the seven of you? Q: Of the seven you were... 8

9 A: Of the seven yes. Q: You were... A: I was the youngest. Q: The youngest of the... Q: Of the seven? Q: And how old was the oldest person? A: Uh he was like 40 years old. Q: 40 years old? A: Yes my mother s brother. Q: Brother. A: Yes and another one was like 38 years old. Q: 38. A: Also my mother s brother. B: Oh... Q: Your mother s brothers. Q: Okay. A: And some other cousins more or less of the same age. Q: Of the same age? Q: Oh really okay okay uh and and what were your expectations? 9

10 A: Well come to learn and to work to make money. Q: And did you also come with the desire of maybe learning English? A: Well the desire to learn English was very little because where we were, we were all Mexican. Q: Mexican? Q: Yes okay... B: (Inaudible). Q: Yes okay okay so then your desire was just to or or your expectations were to just come to work, complete your time, and to go back to Mexico to your town? A: Yes that is that is right. Q: With no interest in staying in the United States? A: Well no... Q: No. A: Because there was always the interest to return... Q: Return. A: To the the family you know? Q: With the family... A: Uh-huh with my parents. 10

11 Q: And and also the ones that were with you they also wanted to just come to work and return... Q: And not stay? A: No not stay. Q: No not stay? A: Not to stay. I... Q: And and no one had the desire to return later on? A: Yes yes because we completed the contract and we would leave and then later if you wanted to come back again well then you could... Q: You could? A: You could come back uh-huh. Q: Okay what did when you came over what did you bring with you and why? A: Well what I brought with me was my birth certificate, a military card, and the to continue uh forward in the program. Q: Uh-huh no did you bring a lot of clothing uh a small amount of... A: Yes yes... Q: Clothing? A: A small amount? Q: How many changes? 11

12 A: Like three or four. Q: Three or four changes? A: Three uh-huh. Q: And how many pairs of shoes did you bring? A: Of that only one. Q: One pair of shoes? B: (Inaudible). Q: One pair of shoes? Okay... Q: And how much money did you have with you? A: Well you always had enough to you never knew what could happen. Q: Yes but... Q: Like how much in that time how much did you have? Did you have like... A: Well... Q: 50 pesos 100 pesos? A: Well like 50 pesos. Q: 50 pesos? A: Yes because everything was much cheaper. Q: Much cheaper? 12

13 Q: And do you remember how many pesos um purchased a dollar at that time? A: Uh 480 that was what... Q: 4 pesos... A: 4 pesos 80 cents... Q: A: Was what a dollar cost. Q: A dollar... Q: A dollar uh-huh uh-huh that is good. A: Then it went up to 8 and 8 dolla- 8 pesos and 80 cents I think also. Q: Yes and did you bring anything with you that reminded you of your mother? A: Well I was a little bit uh happy to go because I I was going to go to cro- uh enter into the United States but there was also the the nostalgia of leaving your family. Q: Family. A: Your parents. Q: Your parents. Q: And and were your parents in agreement with you coming to to the United States? 13

14 A: Uh well yes yes they were in agreement and and like I said they also thought they were afraid that something that something would happen to me because I was well I did not have a lot of experience. B: Was he the oldest in his family? Q: The youngest. B: Oh he s the youngest in his family? Q: Yeah (inaudible). B: (Inaudible). Q: Um at that time you were the youngest um there were you had a brother and a and a sister? A: Y-... Q: Yes? Q: And what was your brother s name? A: Vicente Martinez(sp?) Vera. Q: And did he did he come with you at that time? A: No. Q: He he stayed? A: No he was already he was already working here. Q: Oh he was already here? 14

15 A: Yes in in... Q: Here in... A: Phoenix. Q: In Phoenix. Was he already in the Bracero Program... A: Bracero. Q: Also? B: Oh. Q: And your sister what is her name? A: Laura(sp?) Vera. Q: Laura Vera. Q: But she was not here, correct? A: No. Q: She she stayed there. A: She stayed over there. Q: She stayed. Q: Okay and how old were you when your brother came? B: Uh-huh. Q: How old were you when your brother came over? A: Uh like years old. Q: When when your brother came over? A: Yes uh-huh. 15

16 Q: And how old was your brother when he came? A: Uh well I think that he was like 21 years old... Q: 21. A: 22 like that. Q: Oh really? Q: When he came. Q: So then he was already here because uh for several years? Q: He was already... A: Yes he had been here for several years already. Q: Uh-huh and and was your goal also to come and look for your brother? A: Yes yes because I arrived in King City, California but my goal was to look for him because for like three or four years we did not hear... Q: From your brother. A: From him. A: Uh-huh so then that was what brought me... Q: Also. A: From there also. Q: In other words make money and look for your brother? 16

17 A: Yes uh yes and that. Q: That is good and your brother never called or he never communicated with you? A: Uh... Q: You know during that that time that he was here? A: No he took a long a long time years all of a sudden uh my mother received news from him because he wrote a letter. B: Oh. Q: Oh really? And what did he say in that letter? B: Uh-huh. A: No well that he was that he was fine and if well if my mother would forgive him for the years that they did not hear from him. Q: Oh really? Uh-huh okay and and so then when you read that letter did you decide to come to look for him also at at that during that time or did you already have... Q: Um... A: No no because after I completed my contract in King City, California I went back to Mexico and I got contracted again 17

18 and I got chosen for here uh to come in through Nogales to... Q: To Phoenix. A: Phoenix and there I got a surprise because I I had just gotten the news of my brother that he had that he had uh... Q: That he had contacted them? A: He had yes uh-huh. Q: Okay. Q: So then you were in King City but you did not know that your brother had already had already... A: No. Q: Sent news to Mexico? A: No... Q: Or you did not know? A: Because some some or I left for Mexico and some time passed. I came back and uh uh and I entered in Sept- the 7th no the yes uh-huh the 4th of September I got contracted, I arrived here in Phoenix on the 7th of September. I started to work and then I received the news about about my brother... A: And I went about looking for him. Q: Looking for him. 18

19 Q: What what were you experiences when you came to the border and the process of entering into the Bracero Program? A: Uh um well like well it was worth it because I was able to see the northern part of of the Mexican Republic and some other places and at the same time there was the excitement of seeing my brother and working. Q: And working and where did you arrive you say that you arrived at Mexi- uh at Mexicali first? A: Yes at Mexicali yes. Q: You arrived there okay. A: Uh-huh but then after I left a year later I came in through Nogales. Q: Through Nogales? Q: Okay. Q: Okay were your exper- were your experiences in line with your expectations? A: Well yes. Q: Okay. A: Uh-huh yes that is right. Q: And and and what is um when you arrived at the border what what did you see what did you feel when you arrived at the 19

20 border? When you arrived in Mexicali when you arrived at in Nogales what did you feel? A: Well... Q: Did the people look just like you or did they do the same things as you or what what did what did the people do differently? A: Uh I started to notice that well things that were unfamiliar that one is not uh is not accustomed to and... Q: In what way? A: Uh well seeing strange places... A: Right? That you are not familiar with and at the same time... A: The excitement of that you were going to work to be able to earn money. Q: And and did the people at the border dress like you? Were they dressed like you? A: Well more more or less... B: Uh-huh. Q: What... A: More or less. Q: What what was the difference? B: Uh-huh. 20

21 A: Well it it was not very much because first of all they they spoke Spanish and English also those that had been born here. A: Yes and well everyone looked very good no there was a little bit more confidence... A: In the in the same people yes. Q: Uh-huh and the houses did they look the same as in your town? A: No. Q: No? A: No they were they were very different. Q: Okay in what way? A: Well uh the the construction of the houses well from one from one place to another are different. Q: In other words uh um the construction did they bri- bricks uh in the border towns and not in your town or was it the other way around? A: Uh in my town they used another another uh type of house construction. Q: How in what way? A: Because there they used uh fired bricks or ado- adobe uhhuh adobe dirt also. 21

22 Q: Dirt. A: (Inaudible). Q: Yes okay and they did not use that in the border town? A: Well the construction was different because there they uh it was buildings made of uh cement construction. Q: Cement... Q: And bars? A: Bars. Q: Bars. A: Yes yes uh-huh. Q: Okay and um were there a lot of cars in your town during this this time? A: Well no there were not a lot of cars because it rains it is a region where it rains a lot and the cars only came in during the time there was no rain. Q: And and what what did you feel when you saw so many cars when you arrived at the border? A: Well yes uh it was very strange because you are not used to seeing many cars. Q: Many cars. Q: And when you crossed the border were there a lot of cars there also? 22

23 A: Yes there were even more. Q: There were more. Q: And you were not frightened? A: Well no no no I was not frightened because we had to get used to the way of life... A: Of the place where we were... A: Going to to be. Q: Okay... Q: So then when you arrived where did you live? A: Uh in the Bracero Program we were already uh the the the boss... B: Uh-huh. A: Would provide us with a house uh... A: A place to sleep. We had uh food and for sleeping. A: We had uh a bed individual ones each one had their bed and that is all. 23

24 Q: Yes and when you came but where did you live uh what was the name of the city where you stayed uh uh where you came to work? A: Uh well when I came here uh the land belonged to the company uh Johnny North(sp?) North. Q: Johnny North? Q: Johnny North. A: Uh-huh and he had the uh the stand on Van Buren and 18th Avenue. Q: Okay but this was the second time that you came, correct? A: Yes the second time. Q: The first time that you came where did you go? A: Uh King City, California. Q: King City... Q: California? And and was it a field... Q: Of Braceros?.. A: It was... Q: And how many were there there? A: We were like maybe 70 people. 24

25 B: Hum. Q: And and so then they all lived there... Q: (Inaudible) in the same place? Q: Yes?.. Q: Okay. A: We had transportation from the patron from the boss... A: That took us to work. Q: Okay um did you have did you have food and did you have did you have uh access to um um to a doctor in case someone got sick? A: Yes yes we had a doctor. Q: (Inaudible). A: Yes we had a doctor in other words we were well protected uh-huh as far as a place to sleep, food, doctor and also uh bathroom facilities to wash oneself. Q: And during the time that you were there did you ever get sick? 25

26 A: Uh well no I I did not get sick like seriously sick no. What we all got in the winter was the the the flu. Q: The flu? Q: And you never went to the doctor? A: Well no but other other co-workers did. Q: They did... A: Yes they went. Q: And and did the doctor come to the field or did you go to the doctor s office? A: No the the boss or the foreman had an exclusive person who took the sick person to the doctor. Q: To the doctor? Q: And um did you ever go to the hospital was there ever an accident to the hospital where they where they had to go to the hospital? A: No... Q: You do not... A: No. Q: You do not remember? A: No. 26

27 Q: No. A: Almost never. Q: And how did they treat you at the doctor s in the doctor s offices? A: Well very good. A: Very well very very... Q: Did they did they... A: Uh... Q: Did they speak Spanish? A: Uh yes because the the doctor had a person that spoke Spanish. Q: Really? B: (Inaudible). Q: And but you did not pay him, correct? A: Correct. Q: Correct? A: Correct. Q: The visit was free? A: It was free yes. B: (Inaudible) uh did they cook for themselves did he mention that? Q: N- no uh at at the ranch um did they have a cook? 27

28 Q: Yes? A: Yes uh-huh yes. Q: They had a cook... A: A cook we had a person that was the one that that did the cleaning. Q: The cleaning? Q: Okay. A: When we went out to the field to work that person uh was the one that did the the cleaning. Q: The cleaning? Q: They would clean and... A: Yes yes. Q: And then there was another person that cooked? A: Yes another person that cooked it is just that we came back uh already already getting out uh for dinner. Uh-huh you get up very early uh to have breakfast and at 12:00 they took the food to us. B: Uh-huh. Q: To the field? A: To the field... 28

29 A: Yes and then in the late afternoon... Q: Oh really? A: We came back to have dinner and to rest. Q: To rest. A: For the next day. Q: And did you work all seven days or... A: No. Q: What (inaudible)... A: No. Q: How many did you work? A: Uh sometimes we worked six... B: Hum. A: But also when work was a bit scarce it was only five days. Q: Five days? Q: And what did you do on the days that you did not work? A: Uh we uh we did things like like wash our clothing uh for the next week uh-huh yes. Q: And where did you wash your clothing? A: There there uh were some places exclusively for they were there so that we could wash our clothing. Q: And and were they washing machines? A: No there were none. 29

30 Q: There were no washing... A: No. Q: Machines so then... A: No. Q: It was something that um what what was it do you remember what it was? A: Well it was made of metal it was something special for for washing. Q: Uh uh wash your clothing? A: Yes yes. Q: And and could you leave the ranch? A: Uh yes yes we could leave. Q: You could leave. A: I there where we lived a truck would go by that came from Avondale uh Tolleson and then until Phoenix. Q: Until Phoenix? B: Oh. Q: And... A: It would go and come. Q: And it would come? Q: And where where did you go uh did you go to a place um like stores did you ever go to the stores or to look... 30

31 A: Yes yes but we left that for the day that we did not work. Q: Like on a Sunday. A: Like Sunday. Q: Sunday? A: Yes or Saturday. Q: Or Saturday and so a group of you would go get on the truck... Q: And you went to... A: Because it passed by there. Q: It passed by there. A: It passed by there. Q: And you would go to the stores? A: Or we would go to the movies. Q: To the movies? B: Oh? Q: To the movies? Q: And do you remember where that movie theater was? A: It was around Washington and 6th the street is 6th. Q: Do you do you remember the name of the movie theater? A: Azteca. Q: Azteca? A: Yes Cine Azteca. 31

32 Q: Cine Azteca? Q: Oh. Q: And and what did you see do you remember? What did you see what did you go to see? A: Well movies with Mexican actors. B: Oh. Q: Oh Mexican? A: Uh-huh yes. Q: Oh really? Q: So then it was all in Spanish and... A: Yes with uh... Q: Actors that you were familiar with? A: Yes that is right. Do you remember the name of any actors? A: Well from many among them was Antonio Aguilar uh Luis Aguilar I mean they they have passed away since. Q: They have passed away. A: Yes Mario Cantinflas, Loreno Cantinflas, and like that, Andres Soler and some others. 32

33 Q: Others. A: Yes from that time. Q: Yes and uh when you went to the stores did you buy clothing? A: Yes we bought clothing. Q: Yes? A: Yes what we needed at the time. Q: But was it clothing for work? A: For work and for and for when we went out also. Q: Yes okay. Q: And did you ever go to any dances were there any dances? A: Well I I did not. Q: No? A: I did not go. Q: You did not go? A: Not yet. Q: Not yet? A: Not yet. Q: And and the rest the people that came with you were they all did they all live together at the same ranch or when you got here each one went to... A: Yes yes we came together in the truck... 33

34 A: But when we got here to the city then uh each one went on their own way they went in their own different direction. Q: Oh really? So then not everyone lived in the same place at the at the same ranch? A: Some did. Q: Some did? A: Some did yes. Q: Were there were there many ranches? A: Yes many. Q: Many? A: Many yes there were many ranches. Q: You all arrived at the border together... Q: But then... A: Then from there... Q: From there... A: Yes one company would contract 20 people, others less others more, some at the time when they were picking cotton they contracted a lot of people because there were no machines for picking the the cotton but it had to be done entirely by people... Q: People. A: Only people uh-huh so then... 34

35 A: They would contract hundreds of workers. Q: Of workers. Q: The the two places that you said that you lived was King City, California and Phoenix, Arizona? A: And Phoenix, Arizona. Q: Those were the only two places? A: I went... Q: Or were there were there other places? A: I also went to for like four months in to Blanca, Colorado. Q: Blanca, Colorado? Q: Uh-huh very good and what type of jobs did you do during the program? A: Well in the program I did various jobs. Cut lettuce, pick melon... B: Uh-huh. A: Uh-huh tomatoes, cotton, irrigate. Irrigate uh cotton or lettuce or whatever and well all of that came to benefit me because I learned many different jobs that later on were useful to me. Q: What did you like and what did you not like? 35

36 A: Well I liked everything because uh like I said you know one learns a lot of different jobs from different uh jobs that there are here you know? A: And you do not know how to do them but it was not hard to learn. It was easy you learned very easily. Q: And during the time that you were here did you keep in contact with your um parents? Q: Yes? A: Yes uh through letters. I would write like they would write I would write I would keep in touch with my mother how was she and she would answer me back... A: Also. Q: And how often did you keep in touch? A: Well sometimes two two uh letters per per month. B: Oh. A: Yes and no no uh they would arrive and then you would answer. Q: You would answer so then it was almost two weeks for the letter to arrive at your... 36

37 A: To arrive. Q: Town? A: Yes uh-huh. Q: How were you treated by the bosses? A: Well from the time that I arrived they treated me very well. I was the youngest and well they helped me a lot with whatever. When I arrived here in uh Phoenix well the foreman he liked me because he saw the work that I did that it was very well done and fast and and well done and so then later he said to me look he said I want you to help me show the rest of them the way that you do it and I am going to to pay you five cents more than what they earn and and that is how I how I uh uh they treated me very well in any case uh-huh. Q: And and how how did they treat the workers? A: Well the same the same I mean they would in other words we all had the same uh interest in working and making money to send to the family so then we all uh we had the same mind set. Q: Uh what form did they use to pay you? A: They paid us with a check uh-huh... B: Oh. Q: Um how many times when were you paid? 37

38 A: Well I when I arrived he- here they paid me uh 20 cents per hour. Uh and then later on they raised me to 25 cents I earned five cents more than than the rest uh-huh and when I picked cotton it was $3.00 per 100 pounds. Q: Uh-huh $ A: 100 pounds. Q: 100 pounds? A: 100 pounds. Q: And more or less how much did you earn per week? A: Uh well sometimes $11.00 $12.00 per week because from what we earned we had to pay for food... A: $3.50 per week. Q: For the food? A: For the food. It was very good food and everything very uh in very uh very uh there was no rationing so if you were hungry you have to you have to go back... Q: To eat more. A: To eat more, yes. Q: And what type of food did they give you? B: Uh-huh. 38

39 A: Well uh like like it varied you know it varied. Um meat, beans, rice, oats and cornflakes and well all all of the... A: The food was very good. Q: Very good? Q: Okay okay did they make you tamales?.. Q: Menudo? A: They made uh they made uh tamales every once in a while uh menudo every one in a while also. Q: Yes? A: Yes yes there was coffee for those that liked coffee. Q: What was your favorite food? B: Uh-huh. A: Well early in the morning they gave you eggs with ham or bacon. B: Uh-huh. What did they do with the checks did they go to town and cash the checks? Q: Okay. When they paid you what did you do with the money? 39

40 A: I would go uh saving it for when I had like $40.00 or $50.00 I would purchase a check and I would send it to my mother. Q: Oh you would send it to your... Q: Mother? Q: What type of che- check was it? A: Uh it was a special one so that they would be able to change it in... Q: In Mexico? A: In Mexico, yes. Q: Did you did you use um the banks the banking system here in the United States to to uh save your your money or did you always have the money with you? A: Uh yes yes because if uh the majority of the of the coworkers we always tried to send money to the family. A: So well then at any store they would sell the checks exclusively for for Mexico. Q: For Mexico? A: Yes uh-huh. 40

41 Q: Okay okay how were the working conditions? A: Well they were good because the the boss well would give us transportation for work and at work they would give us the the tools that we needed. A: Uh-huh for example for when were cutting lettuce they would give us gloves, they would give us knives and uh rubber boots if it was necessary if it was very wet and if you were going to irrigate they would give you a shovel in other words all of the the the boss was the one who gave you everything that was needed. Q: And was there always water? A: Yes there was always water yes. Q: And and a place to go to the bathroom? A: Uh that also. Q: Okay. A: Yes there were bathrooms in other words everything was was was in in order. Q: And if someone was injured during work was there medical assistance in the field? A: Uh yes a a person uh would would come quickly and uh sometimes even the boss himself and they would pick up the the boss would get the person. Q: He would get the injured person? 41

42 A: And and... Q: How many rest days did you have? A: Well two. Q: Two two days. A: Two days sometimes only one uh-huh. Q: Okay um who did you leave behind in Mexico? You spoke you said that you left your sib- your um your parents? A: Yes uh-huh. Q: And... A: I left the par- uh my parents. Q: Okay. A: Uh uh and my si- my sister and cousins. Q: Cousins. A: Yes cousins you know family members. Q: Did you leave your girlfriend behind? A: No. Q: No? You did not... A: I did not have one yet. Q: Have one yet? A: Well no not yet. Q: Not yet? A: I was thought about things diff- differently. 42

43 Q: Yes and when your brother came did he leave his wife behind, was your brother married when your your brother came here? Q: Uh and he... Q: Left his wife and if he had... A: Yes he left a wife and children. Q: And children? B: Oh. Q: How many children did he have? A: Well he had at that time six. Q: Six children? A: Six but they were all all young yes very young yes uh-huh. Q: And when he was here he did not communicate with them either? A: Well no... Q: No? A: He he completely forgot. Q: He forgot? Q: Oh. 43

44 Q: Okay how did your leaving affect your family? A: Well not very well you could say because uh first of all my my mother uh well I was the youngest and watching me leave for another place very very far and that also affected her and a little and at the same time she was happy because she had the hopes that everything would go well for me and I would return. B: Uh-huh. Q: But she was in agreement? A: Yes she was in agreement. Q: She was in agreement. A: Yes uh-huh. Q: Did she see that there were not many opportunities there in your town? A: Yes that is why she was aware that I had to come here. Q: And were there opportunities for you um in a nearby city in Mexico? A: Well no I never thought about that I thought about that a little later on. B: Uh-huh. 44

45 Q: And during that time how um when you found out about this program did you find out from your your brother? A: No because uh the government of the state would send uh notices or things like that announcements... Q: Announcements... Q: Over the the radio? A: Uh no by by uh letters uh-huh. Q: By letters but letters... Q: To each person? A: No no announcing that whoever wanted to could get contracted to go to work. Q: And those letters who were they uh who did they send them to? A: To the municipality. Q: Oh to the... A: Yes to the yes... Q: Municipality? Q: And and there they would put them up and you could go and read... A: Yes uh-huh. Q: Them? 45

46 A: Yes you would sign up also... A: And someone would present the lists... A: To the municipality and that way also in other words the government gave would send lists, blank paper. A: Uh but no uh with the letterhead and stamp of the municipality. A: And then everyone could put down their names. Q: Okay and did these letters go to the whole Mexican Republic? A: No someone would bring that letter because in the contracting center there was also a representative from the Mexican government to look at it and that list could... A: Go out. Q: Yes but um the program was it directed the Bracero Program was it direc- was directed to all of the uh men of the Mexican Republic or was it just... Q: Uh did they concentrate on one area the area where you live you lived? 46

47 A: No. Q: It was for it it was for all of... A: It was for the whole... Q: Mexico. A: Republic yes. Q: And and do you know if they solicited people from Latin America uh uh like Guatemala more to the more to the south the countries of Central America, of South America? A: No because that program was... Q: (Inaudible). A: Exclusively for Mexicans. Q: Mexicans? Q: Um what did you do when the program ended? A: Uh when I I left the program because I immigrated. B: Oh. Q: You immigrated? A: I immigrated. Q: And what kind of process was that how did you immigrate? A: Uh when I was in Colorado in Blanca, Colorado? B: Uh-huh. 47

48 A: There the owner or the boss of the team the foreman uh he liked my my work the work that I did and the and the boss took an interest in me. B: Oh. A: Yes because he saw that I did very good work and quickly... B: Uh-huh. A: He then told me he told the foreman to tell me that if I wanted that he would help me to immigrate. I everything that you need I will give to to you he said. He took an interest in me because he liked my work. Q: And and do you remember what year you immigrated? A: Yes I immigrated the 26th of May of uh a Thursday, the 26th of May of 60. Q: Of 60. Q: And how long did that immigration process take, was it fast? A: Well yes in those days it was it was very fast except that there was an error that my boss sent the letters to to Mexico... B: Uh-huh. A: And they came back. B: Uh-huh uh-huh. 48

49 A: So then but when I presented myself at the American embassy in Mexico they told me that when I arri- I did not have a date or an appointment to get legalized that when I had the letters that I should go immediately and that is how it was. Q: That is how it was? A: That is how it was. Q: When you presented the letters right away they gave you the... A: Yes right away uh-huh. Q: Residency? A: They gave me residency in the in the city of Mexico. Q: Okay and how old were you when they gave it to you? A: Uh well I think I was like 3-31 years old. Q: 31 years old (inaudible). A: Yes I went in through El Paso, Texas... Q: Texas. Q: And when when you entered did you come alone? Q: Now with your when you had your... Q: Residency? A: Yes I came alone. 49

50 Q: You came alone? Q: Oh really? A: Yes only that I had a friend that was the one that was he stayed to work with the with the American that... Q: That helped you immigrate? A: That helped me immigrate. Q: Oh really? A: And he was telling me where I was going to to arrive. Q: To arrive? Q: So then you crossed over in El Paso, Texas and you went back to Blanca... A: No. Q: Colorado? A: No no I did not go there no. Q: Oh no? A: No I went to a place that is called Artesia, New Mexico. Q: Artesia, New Mexico. A: Yes I arrived at Las Cruces but when I arrived they had just been working there and we uh went to Artesia, New Mexico... A: To work. 50

51 Q: To work. A: Uh cutting lettuce. B: Uh-huh. Q: Cutting lettuce. Q: But you were no longer in the in the Bracero Program? A: No not anymore I had already left. Q: You had already left? A: The Bracero Program continued until 64. Q: 64? A: Yes uh-huh yes. Q: And your brother did did he immigrate? A: No. Q: No? A: No because... Q: He he did not want to? A: Uh he he did not want to no... A: When he left here from from Phoenix he went back and stayed with his family. B: Oh. Q: His family? B: Oh okay. 51

52 Q: So he went to live in Mexico? B: Oh. Q: And what did he do there? A: Well work. Q: Wo- in the in the fields also? A: No. Q: No? A: No in business uh he sold he bought footwear and and to sell... Q: To sell? Q: There in Patlanalan? A: Uh no in Mexico City. Q: Oh in Mexico City? A: Yes in Mexico City. Q: Oh he went to live in Mexico City? A: Yes uh-huh in Mexico City. Q: And at at that time how many inhabitants were there in Patlanalan? A: No well since it is a small town I think like maybe 1,000. Q: 1,000 people? A: 1,000 people. 52

53 A: Uh-huh a small town. Q: A small town. Q: And of those 1,000 like how many participated in the Bracero Program? A: Well almost uh... Q: All of the men? A: All of the men Q: All of the men? A: Yes uh-huh. Q: But all of them they did not all come at the same time? A: No. Q: No. A: No because since they were growing up the older people did not want to come anymore. Q: They did not want to come anymore? A: But the young people did... Q: They did come. A: Come. B: Uh-huh. Q: Okay and they already knew the the the young people already knew about the program the... 53

54 Q: The older ones had... Q: Already come? A: Uh-huh yes that is right. Q: That is right. Q: Uh what was the best part of the program? A: Uh well the best was for well it was good it was good for some and bad for others you know? Because we there were people that concentrated only on or or I mean that we could only be attached to to one company that contracted us. We could not go to work someplace else. A: No it was exclusively where you... Q: Where you (inaudible)? A: Were sent but and that company sometimes uh had a lot of work and sometimes they did not. B: Uh-huh. A: So then that was what the difference was yes. Q: So then you had to stay there? A: Yes you had to until you fulfilled the contract. The contract was for 45 days or afterwards or six months uhhuh. 54

55 Q: But those contracts were with the company... Q: Only? Q: And after you fulfilled that you could go to go with another company? A: Yes but you had to fulfill it first. Q: And did you sign a contract? Q: Oh uh-huh. A: Yes uh-huh. Q: And what did that contract say? That you could not go until you served those days? A: Yes that was that was how it was. Q: That was how it was... Q: That was how it was. A: 45 days or six months and like that. Q: Okay and so... Q: When you fulfilled that contract could you if there was more work could you do another contract? Q: You extended... 55

56 A: You renewed it. Q: You renewed the contract? A: Yes uh-huh yes you renewed that contract. Q: That is good and what was the most difficult part about the program? A: What was the most difficult... Q: What what yes what was the most difficult thing about the program? A: Uh well the most difficult thing was that it was for example I was in Phoenix for three full years. A: But then we could not I could not renew the contract. Q: You could no longer stay there? A: I could not. Q: It was just in other words the period for only for three years? A: Yes three years and nothing more. Q: Oh. A: Yes three years. Q: Three years? A: Yes and nothing more let s go. Q: And and for and then another person would work there? 56

57 A: Well then from there if you wanted to come back they would give us letters of recommendation. B: Oh. A: Yes a letter of recommendation they would ask for them. A: I came after fulfilling three years I came back the next year and I just happened to get it was a surprise because I did not ask to go back to the same company however I was arriving at the ranch. A: And they called my name and I was like... Q: In the... A: No in the in the same ranch. Q: At the same ranch? A: No since they knew me already no well they were happy... A: The people that were there, the cooks, the ranch hands, and... A: All of the employees, the the foremen. 57

58 A: Yes yes. Q: Um the the last question says do you have any comment or thoughts regarding the the um immigration issues especially regarding those that live regarding those that that come from Latin America that are based on your experience with the Bracero Program? A: Well it is like I said a little while ago that this program was only for Mexicans. B: Uh-huh. A: Uh-huh there was no there was no one from other countries it was exclusively for Mexicans and immigration did not get involved uh with us to review us or anything like that... A: Because we had we had everything in order. A: Uh-huh yes it was all in order and and no no uh immigration hardly existed you could say. Q: But related to to the present time what opinion do you have regarding immigration, the immigrants um that especially come from Latin America? A: Well uh it is very sad... B: Hum. 58

59 A: Because they suffer a lot to be able to get here you know? And apart from that there are many uh foremen or contractors that exploit them. They threaten them with getting immigration after them... A: They do not pay them uh they keep the money and well it is sad because aside from the fact that they rob them, to to get to where they need to go they suffer a lot. A: Yes they they suffer a lot, many die in the desert or where ever you know? It is very hard and in the Bracero Program it was very different. B: Uh-huh. A: Very different because like I said a while ago we were well protected. A: We had a place to sleep, to eat, and everything. Q: (Inaudible). A: Transportation to work, there was medical attention, and everything it was it was very good. B: Uh-huh. 59

60 A: And and the ones that are crossing over the the uh the illegal people you could say, right? Uh they suffer a lot. Q: They suffer a lot. B: (Inaudible). Q: Um is there anything else that you want to add regarding the program that was not that was not presented in the in the list of of questions? A: Well what can I say well first of all I thank God because well uh I have had uh many experiences and I have lived very very peacefully and very well. I have not had any I never had any nor have I ever had problems with the law, with the authorities, with the police, or things like that, you know? A: Because I like to be respectful. I like to be respectful and and uh so that this way you get respect. A: Yes? But one should not cause problems with the law. I have lived for many years and well I have never stepped into a jail or or anything like that because I like to uh be respectful. 60

61 A: And that way everything is fine. I live very peacefully, there is security... A: Above all there is security because uh um so that one can live peacefully with no problems the main thing is to respect to the authorities and that is my... A: That is what I... Q: Yes and when what year were you married? A: I was married in in 68. Q: In 68. A: 68. Q: And how many and how many children did you have? A: I had four, two males and two uh women. Q: Uh-huh and... Q: How many grandchildren do you have? A: I have grandchildren. A: Uh seven girls and three males. A: Boys three boys. Q: Three boys? A: Yes uh-huh. 61

62 Q: Okay and and you still live in the United States, correct? A: Yes still. Q: In what part of the United States? A: In Yuma, Arizona. Q: In Arizona? Q: Okay and you are retired and live peacefully and what what how do you spend your time what do you do to pass the days? A: Well working there in my house, cleaning the yard, the trees, and always busy. Q: And do you always have memories of the Bracero Program or uh is it on your mind about those days in the program? A: Well yes I I remember the Bracero Program because well I never had any any problems, on the contrary, it served me in learning many things that I did not know and then later when I immigrated I uh well I already knew the the process of each job that I was going to do. Q: Okay that is fine. B: (Inaudible). Q: Any other questions that you want me to ask him? 62

63 B: No it it (inaudible) unless he had any you you already asked him if... Q: Yes I did (inaudible)... B: He had anything else he wanted to add yeah (inaudible). Q: Okay I can t think of anything else. B: Thank you thank you. Q: Okay. A: Okay. TEAH01_330 63