in the Carrollton section of New Orleans. Of his family, only

Transcription

1 TILLMAN, WILBERT I [of 2]-Digest--Retyped 1 Also present: William Russell Ralph Collins Wilbert Tillman was born March 31, 1898, at 719 Adams Street, in the Carrollton section of New Orleans. Of his family, only ^ one other played a musical instrument; that was Joe Battiste/ banjo player, and much older than. 's first instrument, when T-ie was 9 or 10 years old, was a [toy] tin flute. Later, a white man named Prechter gave him an old comet, which he played in a little group consisting of banjq, cornet (), clarinet (Lawrence Burns)/ drums ["Lo-well"]/ and one or two f others- In 1917, joined the Navy; in Bordeaux, France he met a brother of his cousin John Casimir; borrowed an old clarinet from him and learned to play it a bit when he was on his ship. Discharged from the Navy in 1920, he returned to New Orleans, w^iere he took clarinet lessons from John [actually, Jim] Humphrey, Dave Per^kins, Pinchback Tureaud, Prof. [Paul] Chaligny, Edmond Hall and Lorenzo Tio [Jr,]. joined the Peerless Band, then just organising? some of tbe members were: "Nias" Ross, bass; Alien Gardette, trumpet; / clarinet? un-named guitar, drums and one ofher [a trombone?]. Next played with: Willie Cornish, trorcibone; Octave Crosby, drums; Sam Towles, banjo; Charlie Towles, trumpet;, clarinet. Charlie Towles was the father of Nat Towles/ bass player [and leader of some small fame]; the Towles family were [mostly] all musicians. Sam Towles and Dornish [co-leaders?/ or was Towles leader of the band?] disagreed; the band broke up, Cornish forming his own group. joined Cornish on sax, and John Casimir joined the band as clarinetist; Cornish

2 TILLMAN, WILBERT 2 I [of 2] -Digest-Retyped played trombone and "Wooden Joe" [Nicholas] played comet. Then.< and his brother-in-law Gardette joined Jack Carey's band, mostly for the honor and fame, because Carey would cheat them out of their money; as a general rule then the older musicians too1< advantage of the younger ones; they stayed with Carey about a year. Drummer Jim Willigan [or William LeBouef? see Louis James reel?] (The time was about when Punch [Miller] first decided to leave town, with a carnival [1926].) After Carey, W jobbed around, playing with Buddy Petit and Chris Kelly, among others; he was doubling on clarinet and sax, having taken up the latter about 1924; he says he was about the fifth colored man in New Orleans to have a sax. He first bought a straight Bb soprano sax, but not liking the tone/ he got an alto. The only other sax player actually knew at that time was Sidney Carrere (WR says Raymond Burke took one lesson from a teacher he confuses with a Carrere [actually, it was Eddie Cherrie--PRC]), who played tenor. Carrere was a good reed man, and had a nephew who played nice drums. White musicians apparently bought more saxophones earlier- tells of playing every Saturday night, for 5 or 10 years, in a ballyhoo band for Silverstein's clotlning store/ which was on w the downtown-river corner of Poydras and Rampart; the band, 6 pieces/ played from 6:30 PM until about 10 PM/ in an attic-like room built over the entrance to the store. On the corner diagonally across the street, at Feaney's [spelling?] wine store, a band led by Frank Crump and his father played at the same time, for the approximate same purpose. mentions playing on the [National Jazz

3 TILLM&N, WILBERT 3 I [of 2]-Digest-Rei-yped August 15, lybl Foundat-lon] bandwagon, in company with Bunk uonnson, ueorge ijewis/ Anr>y Williams [and o-cners] ; tiady Dodds played in tne / L or a?] oand t-less Wiixiams and?]that night for the concert^ held in tne mid-forties [1945?]. In the Thirties, while members of the Tulane Brass Band (led by Al[cide] Landry)/ and Jolin Casimir, sax and clarinet respectively, decided to organize a brass band/ which was called the Young Tuxedo Brass Band. tells of taking lessons on trumpet from Louis Dumaine, so that he could get more jobs, as there were more jobs for a trumpet player at the time than for a clarinet player. His first job with a brass band was with the Eureka Brass Band, on trumpet; he later played sax with that band, and [brass] bass, having learned bass to relieve the regular Eureka bass player, Pete iblanchet?], who was ill. took one lesson on bass, from <c?<^-^ 0^ JE'xn eaor [Delmast] who died not long ago, to learn the fingerings and tlie bass clef? he tiad ta1<en lessons on trumpet and clarinet/ but did not have any on sax. Besides the.eure^a, played [bass/ or anything else?] with the brass band of old man [Henry] Alien [Sr,]. began playing brass bass about , (porrect RBA] After leaving Jack Carey, in the middle or late Twenties, and his brother-in-law. Alien Gardette formed a ^and; pitayed sax and clarinet, Gardette on trumpet, Joe Avery on trombone, Sammy Penn on drums, Joe Battiste on banjo sometimes/ [and others], Gardette was a fine trumpet player who taught many musicians G-cs^A^-'b^-e around New Orleans, Andy Andersen among them; Sdyde-t died about four or five years ago, in Mich.igan. For all practical purposes, the band with Joe Avery lasted until Avery died [1955] ; and

4 TILLMAN, WILBERT 4 I [of 2]-Digest-Retyped Avery split at one time/ but Avery came into the band formed and called the Tillman and Avery Band [i.e. Avery-Tillman], Both ^ men were also working with other bands at the same time. The band played for the [Jefferson City] Buzzards/ the Eleonore Club / the Lyons Club and at Tyler's Beer Garden, in Audubon Park. ( says it was at Tyler's that he first met Dick Alien, during World War II [jufc after war/ Fall, 1945] and it was he who encouraged Alien to return to New Orleans; Alien did, and has lived here since. The band made a short recording for Alien, on ^hich "Dude" Lewis played trumpet [Copy in Archive].) 1 talks about the Saturday night dances at the Buzzards old hall; the dances were on alternate weekends, and the Tillman and Avery band played for them. When the Buzzards moved into their new "hall/ the dances were held every Saturday night/ and colored bands were used only occasionally, 's band playing a few and Harold Christophe a few. also played for the Buzzards Carnival Day parade. He played with the Eureka Brass Band for tile E^enore Club's Carnival Day parade for about five or six years, at ^hich time [D'jalma] Ganier led the band playing for the Buzzards, with [Emile] Knox [bass drum] and others. John Casimir took over the job from Ganier, and joined him [Young Tuxedo Brass Band]; they later began playing for the Lyons Club, turning tl^e job over to Andy Anderson when Casimir became ill last season [I960]. was asked to play with Anderson, but he refused/ saying the hours (7 AM to 5 PM) were too long for his arthritic legs. played with Percy [Humphrey and the Eureka] in the Zulu parade [of 1961]/ which lasted less than 3 hours instead of 9 AM to 5PM, because of strain concerning integration.

5 TILLMAN, WILBERT I [of 2]-Digest-Retyped '.> (?., played with Buddy Petit at the Dance!and jitney dancehall, ^ Carondelet and Canal, and also in Madisonville and Mandeville; / Petit was from that side of the lake; tells of Petit's sickening, and talks about the possible cause (he says probably TB, and ttien most old-time musicians died of exposure caused by coming out of hot places without coats). played with Gus Metcalf/ and witl^ Earl Foster (same band?];' most of the work was across the lake/ around Abita Springs, for whites. worked wifh Kid Thomas [Valentine], and made more money with liim than witli any otlier band. was with him on sax during World War II? Emile Barnes was on clarinet. The Thomas band went to Raceland every Saturday niglnt, playing for Mr. LaBlatz, at a j itney dancehall. Every white dance'hall in fhe country then was charging a nickel [a dance]. was one of the first to play for Tony Marullo [spelling?] in Grand Isle; Narullo had a place in Shrewsbury, but moved to Grand Isle/ where tliere was plenty of money and gambling. Ike Robinson had a band/ in which Albert "Fernandez" [Walters] and George Lewis also played, which worked for Marullo in Shrewsbury.. When Robinson gave up the band/ took fhe band to Grand Isle. Frank Crump played clarinet and sax, played sax, Fernandez was on trumpet/ George Guesnon played banjo. End of Reel I

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7 1 TILLMAN, WILBERT II [of 2]- Digest-Retyped Also presents William Russell Ralph Gollins repeats that 'he made a lot of money with Kid Thomas; he says he made l^ss money [per job]/ but actually made more money / [more jobs]- He tells about working various places for very little money ($1-$1-25 per night), places such.. as the Popeye (sometimes for more than 12 hours), and with Octave Crosby at a dance hall on Dryades, between Melpomene and Terpsichore [Streets]- Kid Thomas built up an out-of-town trade, because the men made a good bit more than in town. When was with Thomas, the band wasn't in the union perhaps because there was no local for Negroes at the time. He was glad the union started, altt-iougt-l scale was only a dollar an T^our- Top price for funerals was tl^ree dollars. pan -,AA 5 AM- 6 PM carteval parade ^ay&d only ten dollars. However, there was mucli wortc. When worked wifh Octave Croaby, (on Dryades Street) "Dude" [Lewis] and a drummer were the rest of the band? they received $1.25 per night, but fhe tips were good. worked with the brother of Dude, Foster Lewis; the band traveled to various small towns in Mississippi and Louisiana/ working on a percentage of the gate, sometimes making a lot of money and sometimes making only a few cents. In the end he decided he made too little f, this way and uit travelling. played with Gus Metcalf over the Istke some; they regularly played ttae fairs at Franklinton and at Covington. Of the Lewis brothers/ Dude played trumpet/ and Foster played trombone; both were very good; Foster couldn't read, but he had a fine tone/ and Dude played fc sty^be trumpet which would be readily acceptable today. The Lewises were from the country, possibly from around LaPlace. tells of his A own

8 .T* TILLMAN, W1LBERT 2 II fof 2] prowess on tin flute. talks of the habits and customs of the "second line" at parades in the old days; the clubs would have the men at the front of the parade/ the women (often dressed as or riding in "tallyhos" [?]) behind them, and the second liners would follow fhe parade from tlie sidewalk. The children would go only a few blocks, as they were not allowed any furttaer by their parents; one group, perhaps having some tin flutes and impromptu percussion instruments in it, would follow for a short distance and then another would begin following. emphasizes the fact tliat / the second line remained on the sidewalk, not in the street. tells of the parental (there was no legal curfew) curfew of 9 PM set for children? tlie children were reminded of the time by the. ringing of the bell at a firehouse on Maple, between Burdette and Fern [and probably at tl-ie other firehouses throughout the city]. When 's father died/ his mother [and the four children] moved from 719 Adams Street to 7605 Hampson, just around the corner 7 they moved from there and the Carrollton area when was about 12 years old, going to Cadiz and Willow [Streets], where the children grew up. went to work about then/ doing odd jobs, > 1-" h.l^u s- and learning the plastering trade from his parrain [Frencli,.^-t^- I" Godfather]. has done many kinds of work, including riverfront labor, Pullman porter, railroad freight worker, naval and merchant seaman/ etc. During this Carrollton youth/ there were not many parades, because there was only one pleasure club in the area; it was the Merry Go Round Club, which is Club, which is still in

9 T1LLMAN, WILBERT II [of 2] 3» existence/ still at the same location as then. thinks Amos Riley led the band which played for the Merr^ Go Round's parades when he was small. The club always paraded on the 4th Sunday in August (as they do now), and thinks the members have never changed the colors of tlie uniforms they wear in the parades. mentions the decline of advertising with bands? in connection with this, he mentions St. Elizabeth's Hall,, which was on Camp between VSlence and Cadiz [Streets]. Another long-gone hall was the so-called Amelia Hall, Amelia a-t Willow [Streets]; Pete Locaze played there frequently; played a few jobs witli him. When Locaze and Fran^ie Duson had the band, would sometimes sit in with them at the Royal Garden (Rampart and Gravier); the leaders asked him to join the band, but he wouldn't accept, as he felt that that would be unfair to Arthur, the incumbent clarinetist, who was nice to him; did play some jobs with them, Tnowever, unbetoownst to Arthur. says 'he himself should have stuck to clarinet. ("he played Albert system), because he was quite good. Although said before that he had no lessons on sax, he remembers that he studied some with Manuel Marietta, whom be considers the best teacher. He also took some lessons from Davy Jones, but Jones was a "rolling stone", so didn't get many lessons from him. (According to WR, Jones is now in Californa). says Jones taught a lot of people who became good musicians, including some in Monroe^[Louisiana]. tells of working on an excursion cv^d^t^boat, the Oashita [spelling?] traveling from the foot of Canal Street [Canal and the river] to Camden, Arkansas; tt-ie band was led by Edmund Washington; the job was a very good one, paying

10 » TILLMAN, WILBERT II [of 2] 4 h $25, per week, room and board and generous tips. The band had no duties other tlian playing for the nightly dances. met Davy Jones in Monroe, where Joneis was living and teaching. Jessie ^4to ^'/ ^/ Charles was playing in a band there. says the old days were better for musicians; although the pay was not good (excluding tips), more musicians worked more frequently than now. commends Ken Mills'- operation [Mills was the organizer and first proprietor of Preservation Hall in New Orleans], saying that although any one musician doesn't get a lot of jobs there, many musicians get some jobs, jobs they probably wouldn't get without tliat source. ( comments on the extreme appreciation of their own musical abilities by some people. He says that any musician who doesn't ma1<e a mistake just doesn't play, even the best of them). He attributes the decline in music jobs available to fhe increase in use and popularity of the box [i.e., coin-operated pl-ionograph], and the fact that businesses regularly employing live musicians must pay for license now, a license which costs too much to enable t1-ie owners to make a profit. also says that when a place, white or colored does hire a band, the customers are liable to play the music box, during which time the band can't play, so the owner gets rid of the band; then/ when the band is gone, the people don't play the music box, so the owner loses all around. r k. '»» music End of Reel II