Lawrence Banks Trotter was born October 15, 1912, in Lafayette,

Transcription

1 LAWRENCE TROTTER t [of 4] 1 Also present: Richard B. Alien, Ernestine [Mrs- Lawrence] Trotter, Betty B. Rankin Lawrence Banks Trotter was born October 15, 1912, in Lafayette, Louisiana, of a non-musical family. He Tnas no nickname. [This is t. unusual among New Orleans musicians-rba]. His father was a deacon, 1-iis mother a steward in the Good Hope Baptist Church in Lafayette. LT moved to New Orleans in 1929, and took up music in The first place he rehearsed with a band was at 2804 Belmont Place, with Raymond Smitt-i, trumpet, and Tom Johnson, alto sax; LT later played with Johnson in Papa Celestin's band. The first organized band LT played with was Rolsert dark *s Brown Buddies; William Houston (owner of a music store in New Orleans), then attending Xavier [ University, New Orleans], was the pianist. Tom Johnson could play clarinet a little bit before he left New Orleans for California, but he learned how to play it after he left. He is still active in music there. He played wi'th Don Albert's big band; Alvin Alcorn [trumpet] and Louis Cottrell [tenor sax and/or clarinet?] were also in Albert*s band then..i t. In Lafayette, L T heard the Black Eagle Band, led by Evan Thomas, a good trumpet player; he was a high note man [sticking closely to the melody?]; the band played mostly hon'ky tank music; LT didn't see any music when they played/ so he assumes they didn't read. "Papa" John Joseph was playing sax with the band at the time, and LT thinks Lawrence Duhe was also playing sax with them. RBA says Duhe played with the Banner Band (of New Iberia, Louisiana, says LT) 7 LT says the Banner Band, more of a society band than ttie Black Eagle, also * appeared in Lafayette. Some members of the Black Eagle other than John Jos<^>h and Evan Thomas [and probably Lawrence Duhe (see above)]:

2 ^. LAWRENCE TROTTER I [of 4] Walter Thomas, drums/ Joe Robichaux (of New Orleans), piano. Answering RBA, LT says he remembers trombonist Gus Fontenet [of New Ilseriar-RBA] a little bit; LT thinks Fontenet must have become & a little famous around tliere maybe after I left ther^t^evan ^Thomas, know^as E. T. Thomas, was the most well-known musician in the area; A they" [i.e., the band or the Thomas family?] were from Crowley, but their headquarters were in Lafayette. (LT met Bunk Johnson in the 1930's in New Iberia when LT was with Celestin*^ band.) LT says Thomas would get in a window of the hall and blow his born [to attract people]. He also played in an alley behind the Alamo Cafe, which was owned by his brother, to attract people. LT knew of no brass bands in Lafayette; his first knowledge of s brass bands came in New Orleans; he followed parades every Sunday. LT recalls working for $1 per night; he says the price increased to $1.25, and that a man was well paid if he made $1.50; other musicians, including Hunter Gardette, [John] Handy, and Wilbert Tillman (then playing trumpet, and living at 7t1'i and Howard [now La- Salle]), worked for similar wages. The Trotters then had wocd ^ 2 stoves.. * LT played with Huntley [i-e., Hunter] Gardette, and also witln [^ohn] Handy, at the Black Gold, a place at 7th and Howard; the Black Gold Xlater became the Gtand Terrace, and was owned a (LT thinks) policeman named NicX Patterson; the Foster Hotel is located on the spot now [downtown river corner-rba]. Answering RBA, LT says Alien Gardette and Huntley Gardette must have been the same,person, as there was only one Gardette who was a musician. LT says Gardette is Wilbert Tillman's brother-in-law; he married Tillman's sister. LT says \t Tillman's wife died last night at 6:30.

3 LAWRENCE TROTTER 3 I (of 4] Robert dark's Brown Buddies were a reading band; some of the personnel: Clyde Kerr, 1st Trumpet? Shelly "Bullet" Lamelle, [2nd] trumpet; Clark, 3rd trumpet; Kerr's brother, Ewing Kerr, trorabone; Helen Austin, singer [also with Kid Ory?]; Tom Johpson, 3rd sax; Howar Davis, 1st alto [sax]7 a tenor sacophonist; LT, drums; a guitarist; William Houston, piano; "[Kid] Twat" [Butler], bass (who now plays ^t-. with Kid Thomas' band; LT thinks he wasn't reading much in Clark's band, but he played). LT took his first drum lessons from "Happy" Goldston; LT learned to read from tenor saxophonist Davey Jones? LT was then playing at the Caliente, at Dauphine and Bienville, witli Willie "Kaiser" Joseph (brother of Papa John 'Joseph-RBA) ; Joe Bentley was playing trumpet in that band. LT guesses he began to study reading music in the late [19] 30*s- "Happy" taught LT how to hold his sticks, and how to make a roll on.drums. RBA compliments LT on his roll. LT li'ked to listen to Louis Barbarin, then playing drums with Celestin- (RBA says the Celestin band is now led by Albert French, ^.,<,;*- and play 4 3r nights a week at Dixieland Hall; Jeanette Kimball still J plays [piano] with the band; RBA says the personnel changes very little, although Jack Willis is now the trumpeter, instead of Alvin [Alcorn]). LT began taking lessons on only his snare drum? he also had a bass drum, a small torn torn, and a top-mounted cymbal, but no sock cymbal; some years later he got a sock cymbal* He says Louis Barbarin and Alfred Williams had sock cymbals when LT began drumming, but Williams had a low [to the floor] one. LT had one crash cymbal; he later bougtit temple blocks, and a larger, stand-mounted torn torn? he bought his first cowbell in 1964; he had a wood block in the early days, as he does now.

4 LAWRENCE TROTTER 4 I fof 4] LT played in the WPA band during later years, not in the band when it began? some of fhe other personnel, from a total of about 12 men: John Porter, John "Pickey" Brunious, [E] Manuel Paul, Edward Johnson (alto sax), and Louis Dumaine, instructor [i. e- director?]* LT was in that band before World War II [cf. J'."P." B- & Manuel Paul interviews-rba]. The band played at U.S. 0. clubs, and at Army and Navy bases? LT says the war was already in progress when the band played at those places. Before LT joined the WPA band, he "was playing in the field" (i.e., doing any type of work in the WPA); LT says Celestin also worked in.-^x the field for the WPA- Robert Clark's band played casual jobs at dance halls for colored and at other places* LT says that then fhere were no rock and roll groups to contend with in those days, that there was just one group E; (i.e. type of band) [i.e., N <g^o swing orchestras?]; the bands in --,. that group were: Celestin's, dark's Brown Buddies, Sidney Desvigne, Herbert Leary/ and [A.J.] Piron. Celestin was usually on the road then. End of Reel I

5 LAWRENCE TROTTER S' / II [of 4] *Tanuary 13, 1966 Robert Clark's big band worked one or two nights per week; LT had a day job then, also; when he was with ["Papa"] Celestin's band, he didn't have a day job; he was also single at the time. Clyde Kerr, Ewing Kerr, and William Houston, some of the other members of Clark's band [see Reel I], were attending school; LT was working in a grocery store. LT played drums at a jitney dance. La Vida, for about 1 1/2 years, with the band led by [John] Handy, then playing alto sax and clarinet; others in the band: "Jim Crow" Robinson^ trombone; Benny Turner, piano; Sidney Pflueger, guitar or toanjo. RBA says Handy is again playing clarinet/ and well. [cf. notes on recording with Hugh Watts,] LT says he "got that hard leg, from playing with Handy; he malce a drummer strong;" the hours were long, and there were a lot of fast, although short, numbers. The band played slow numbers/ fast numbers, waltzes, etc.; each number was only two choruses in length. LT thinks the band began playing at 8:30 or 9 p.m. (dances cost five cents), ending sometime during the morning, as it was daylight when he got home. LT was paid $15 per week., which was good pay then, during the 1930*s or 1940's/ but before (he thinks) his job with the WPA. LT first played with Robert dark; the last band he played with was led by Papa Celestin? in between, LT played with Handy, the WPA band, Huntlgy Gardette, and at the Rhythm Club (at Jackson & Derbigny) with Henry Russ, who was then playing trumpet. Isidore [sp?] Criunj) was playing alto sax [with Russ]. RBA mentions saxophonist Frank Crump; both he and LT think Frank Crump died. LT says Isidore Crump operates a jeweler's on Dryades Street. Russ had a 10-piece band. Wtien playing with Gardette, wl-iose band was not a regularly organised one, LT would take other jobs; he says all the musicians in

6 LAWREBNCE TROTTER IX [of 4] tliat type band followed similar practices. He says the single musicians had fun, didn't save their money. He agrees with RBA that the people had fun, although times were hard; he says people seemed to be in good humor; he says there were 4 or 5 piece bands in pract- ically every small place in town. Other than [Louis] Barbarin [see Reel I], LT liked the beat on drums of Roy Evans, who played with Sam Morgan; Evans also worked with the 6-piece band led by Davey Jones; [Theodore] "Wiggles" Purnell played alto sax with the band. RBA says Purnell made a recording wittn Jones at the Astoria- RBA mentions Lee Collins; LT says Collins was playing trumpet; Joe Robichaux was playing piano; Evans, Drums; Manual Sayles, Sanjo; [Jones, tenor saxophone]. Evans used his foot differently from other drummers; "he beat a 4/4 rhythm, and he sorfe of skip in there, skip in between." LT says he wasn't able to copy the beat. His torn torn technique was also different. In brass bands, / 5 a drummer LT li1<ed was "Jim", also called "Jiiabo". RBA asks about Jim Mukes, a drummer who was "known as 'The Hog", and was a good friend of bass drummer "Black Benny". RBA thinks "Jimbo" and Jim Mukes must be the same person. LT liked " [Black] Happy" [Goldston] on snare drum. Handy had a big band, tlie Louisiana Shakers, before he took tl-ie small band, with LT, into La Vida; Roy Evans played drums with tbe SI-iaTcers, and Henry Kimball played bass. Clifford Brown [of New Orleans] was one of the trumpet players in the Shakers; Raymond Brown was the trombonist; Edmond Bottley[c. Al Rose & Ed Souchon/ A Eamily Album...], now dead, played 3rd alto saxophone. LT doesn't know where "Papa", a wavy-haired drummer, is now. *

7 LAWRENCE TROTTER 7 XI [of 4] January 13, L966 Partial personnel of Henry Russ band at the Rhythm Club: [see also p. 7-PRC] [Russ, trumpet] ; Isidore Crump, alfeo sax; Earl Barnes, tenor sa ; Walter Daniels, piano. The band played the Sunday Cock - tail "hour" at the Rhythm Club every Sunday, from 4 until 9 [pm]7 ^ they also played 1 or 2 nights per week» Lawrence Trotter played his very first parade July 26, 1964, {with the Young Tuxedo Brass Band] for a cornerstone laying in Gretna. He says that in the earlier days it seemed that the older». musicians wouldn't hire younger musicians. New Orleans bands which used arrangements had stock and special arrangements. Henri "Kildee" Holloway arranged for Celestin; Clyde Kerr and William Houston arranged for Robert Clark. The arrangers tried to come close to the arrangements of the hits of otber bands; ^ Kerr atranged exactly from recordings. RBf< comments on the simit).'e larity of the sound of Don Albert band to Duke Ellington's, ^- assuming Albert's arrangers copied Ellington's recordings. LT had no favorites among New Orleans arrange^'5. LT hasn't heard Houston's band in a long time. fherbert] Leary's band still operates, tout they play a lot of rock and roll, which LT doesn't like. LT was asked to join Herbert Leary's band. Answering RBA, LT says he likes rhumbas, that he formerly played a lot of them. [Cf. notes on Chris White.} besides the rhumba, people in the 1930's danced the breakaway, and the swing out, which was similar to j»tterbugging.. LT played Dixieland in the 1930's? he doubts that the style he and his cotiorts play ww is different from their earlier style. His own playing is a bit different because earlier he used wire brushes more, at the request of leaders* LT played a job "the other night" with [Andy] Anderson's group; he used wire brushes then. Sometime members of Anderson's group besides LT: J

8 LAWRENCE TROTTER 8 XT [of 4] Joe Harris, alto sax; Andersen's cousin, Lester [?], a, rock and roll organist; Ernest [Routoleau] or Narvin Kiinball, banjo. Anderson also has used Gerald Joseph on trombone, and [James] "Sing" fr Miller, piano; Miller is now playing with Narvin Kimball. End of Reel II /

9 LAWRENCE TROTTER 9 1X1 (of 4] January 13, 1866 Also present: Riclaard B. Alien, Ernestine [Mrs. Lawrence] Trotter, Betty B- Rankin. Ernestine and Lawtence Trotter have been married about 15 years? they met in a Baptist church. RBA says LT's name was mentioned by [English trumpeter] Clive Wilson in the English macfazine Jazz Times. [Oscar] "Papa" Celestin's band, with LT, travelled through Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama; Celestin was well-known in several states. The salaries tl-ie musicians received Wtt. adequate. Personnel of the ceiestin band tlien: [LT, drums] ; [Henri] "Kildee' [Holloway], 2nd trumpet; Hunter Gardette, 1st trumpet; Celestin, 3rd trumpet; Bill Matthews, trombone; Tommy Johnson, 1st alto sax? Willie "Squeek" James (nephew of Lewis James, and from New Orleans), T 3rd alto sax? Clarence Hall, tenor sax? Adam Cato, piano; * < ^ -. Law- rence, singer? Narvin Kimball, string bass; John Porter, sousaplnone. / Besides singing, Joe Lawrence played sa^ and wastzbo. 7 hc-played the.^ saw on sweet numbers, sa^cli as waltzes, and tie washboard on certain otlner.numbers. f Repetoire of the Celestin band consisted of popular tunes, waltzes, rhuiabas, etc. Celestin himself was featured in "My Josephine", 'Muskrat Ramble", "[Oh] Didn't He Ramble", and certain other tunes? he sang on one number, the name of which LT doesn't remember. He did not employ showmanship, as lie did in later years. (Other bands Iiad their own specialties.) Jimmy Cato/ a first cousin of Adam Cato, was a big man; [and known as "Big Cato"?-RBA] now dead, he played [piano?] mostly for house parties. LT thinks Adam Cato'.s father played drums, although LT didn't know him. LT quit playing music in 1946; Tais wife says it was because of his religio'^ belc -{-> (he joined St. Mark's Baptist Church), and * that he considered playing )^2Z a sin. LT Says the real reason was that he was on the bo^rd of trustees of the clnurch, that all 'his time

10 LAWRENCE TROTTER 10 * Ill [of 4]» taken up by church duties, and that he had no time to play jazz. He doesn't consider playing jazz a sin. His wife insists that he thought otherwise. LT quit playing music entirely in 1946; he occasionally saw other musicians; he worked at bis^day jobs and in the church office, taking care of financial matters; fche church job paid no money; he was in that job from 1946 until around LT is now a porter at D. H. Holmes [department store]; RBA /- ^ says Hugh Evans, presidehtof Holmes, once studied drums with [Abby] "Chinee" [Foster], and that he tl-iinks Harry Souchon, a good friend of Evans, told him about it. After Meeting Willie J. Humphrey on tlie bus one time, LT thought about Humphrey's suggestion that lie begin playing drums again for about a montla before decicuri^ to do so; he got a set of drums, joined the union, and bej an playing. He hadn't belonged to the union before, as prior to 1946, union membership was not a requirement to play} union and non-union musicians played together, J even in Celestin's band. LT aid RBA look at LT's [music job] book; the first job listed is the first LT played after returning to music? it was with tub player Anderson "Goulie" Minor's Brass Band, for a cornerstone laying in Gretna, June 25, Furttier listings of jobs and some of the musicians on them: September 4, Gulfport, Mississippi; Octave Crosby, p, October 17, Harmony Inn; [Andy] Anderson, tp; Harold Dejan, as, and pianist [James] "Sing" Miller. Ocfober 26, Tulane University; [Andy] Anderson/ Joe Harris, as? December 5, 1220 Second St [the then residence of Dr. William S. Wiedorn] (RBA got the band the job, and attended); Ernest Roubleau, bj; Octave Crosby-

11 LAWRENCE TROTTER 11 Ill [of 4] December 12, American Legion Hall, Gretna; Andrew Morgan, ts, cl. December 15, Charity Hospital (a [union] project job); Leroy Kobinet, ts.^ leader 7 Joe Bentley, trumpet; "Father Al" [Lewis], guitar? Albert Delone, as; "Sing" Miller, piapo. New Year's Eve [December 31], Pensacola, Florida; [Andy] Anderson, Joe Harris, "S'howboy" [Thomas], tb; Ernest Roubleau, [bj and/or guitar]. February 16, 1965, Charity Hospital; (Andrew Morgan or Oct^v^. Crosby had the project job), Joe Bentley, Roubleau on banjo, [Albe -rt] Warner on troinbone. RBA says he was there with Chris White, bassist with Dizzy, and that Wliite liked Roubleau and earner. (Narvin Kimball's band on Eite± other side of hospital.) [C notes in ANOJ folder under<phris White 7)]. fe March 2, parade for the Corner.Club; Anderson Minor's Brass Band. March 16, Charity Hospital? (not certain which band). April 23, 8031 S. Robertson [There is no such number on South -7 Robertson; the last block of South Robertson is 6300-PRC]; [. trumpet/ was leader of the band? ttie party was at a house near school (St. Joan of Arc?). June 6, Lutcher, Louisiana, a picnic; [Andy] Anderson. LT played few picnics in the 1930's; he played mostly in nightclubs; he says he played at almost every nightclub in the city. He also played advertising jobs on trucks, in bands of five or six. pieces. LT tells of playing with Handy in a bucking contest against a band led by [Kid] Rena, with Reaa's brother, Joe Renefsic] on drums, Edgar Saucier, saxophpne, and Henry Harding [Soards', 1933], tenor saxophone. Rena "played nice trumpet." Alvin Aicorn/ then with Piron's band, also played frequently on trucks. Handy sometimes uses Alcorn on trumpet in his band.on the trucks? he frequently used

12 ^ LAWRENCE TROTTER 12 Ill fof 4] Clifford Brown (son of Raymond Brown) on trumpet [not modern trumpet player-rba]- (Asked if any trumpet players tried to play like Louis' Armstrong/ LT says he thinks Lee Collins did. RBA tells of hearing Collins playing "When You're Smilin'" at the Paddock and then following it with whatever tune was on the ofher side of the Armstrong recording of "When You're Smilin'".) LT says Clifford Brown had his own style of playing. RBA comments on Rena's style on recordings as opposed to his style when heard in person. Continuing the list of LT's music jobs: June 20, 1965, St. John Grand Lodge (Masons) Parade (LT is a member of the organisatmon), which ended at the I [nternational] L[ongslioremen ' s] A[ssociation] Hall* There were about six bands [including the Apollo?]. [End of Reel III]

13 LAWRENCE TROTTER 13 IV to 4] Also presents Richard B. Alien/ Ernestine [Mrs. Lawrenc, e] Trotter, Betty B. Rankin. LT is a member of the United Most Worshipful St, John Grand Lodge [see Lt, Reel III]7 he belongs to only one "Society", but not to any pleasure clubs..t Continuing the list of LT*s music jobs: June 27, [1965], Sund. y^ Gretna, parade of the Prince Hall [Masonic] lodge, [Andrew] Morgan's lodge, (RBA says Morgan was going to start up the Young Tuxedo again? LT confirms tl-iis) with Morgan. July 11, Slidell, Louisiana. (LT doesn't remember what band.) August 14, dance in a hall at Grand Isle [Louisiana] ; [Andy] Anderson. August 18, U.S. Public Hospital; Israel Gorman, [Andy] Anderson ( leader on the job, a project), Joe Harris, Ernest Roubleau, Octave Crosby- No one danced; they just say; LT found it difficult to play there because of the passive response of the audience. LT prefers playing for,. dances; "I lifce to play dances; I like to see people dancing, because energy to play; it when they're dancing, it gives me more seems as though they're enjoying the music, you know," August 22, a dance in Lutcher, Louisiana; [Andy] Anderson» LT has continued playing since the last job listed? he has merely quit keeping records. He has played in Pensacola, [Florida] and at International House since then; tooth jobs were with [Andy] Anderson- He has also.played with Octave [Crosby], and had a job at Charity Hospital with [Wilbert] Tillman; other members of that band: [Ernie] Cag[no. latti], Morgan, Ernest Roubleau, Octave on piano, Tillman on Ibass [sous]. '-, LT has played with only one violinist, Louis James. To LT, the playing of Clive Wilson and Lars [Edegran] sounds like that of New Orleans musicians.

14 LAWRENCE TROTTER XV [of 4] "Papa" 14 John [Joseph] and LT had a band which never got a job, although they rehearsed for around two months; sometimes they rehearsed without "Papa" John. [see notes in AN J.) [The Louis James] band has had two jobs? LT pllayed one of them- RBA says James told Clive Wilson and Lars he wasn't working, and that no one would hire him, so they decided to form a band. RBA recommended LT to Clive Wilson. LT was working wifh Anderson one night when Louis James had the second job, the one LT missed? Andrew Jefferson played drums with James that job at Charity Hospital. Answering RBA, LT says he thinks a leader should hold consul [tations?] with his men, and set up rules to govern the conduct of ttie band. Big bands had discussions of problems, etc., before the rehearsals. The bandsmen respected fhe wishes of tl^e leader. Bands still had managers during the 1930's7 Robert dark was the manager of Robert dark and his Brown Buddies; he got the jobs for the band? Clyde Kerr was 1'he leader [I. E. a musical director]. Clark was a fine fellow; he got along well with the icians in his band? he had a nice personality. mus Discussion of tips: no tips to big bands; LT got tips while working with small bands in nightclubs; LT never had any arguments about tips. Tips were split equally among the men, including the leader/ who got the same amount of regular pay as the other men. LT feels he has been luc'ky in playing with bands without absentee problems; he himself never missed a music job, nor was he ever late for one; other bands might have had absentee problems, but not the ones in which LT worked. LT has always sent sub - stitutes if he has been unable to play some jobs- LT mentions drummer Sa., ' [Mossey], who is not playing with any band now. /