(THERE IS 45 SECONDS OF BACKGROUND NOISE AND TALKING BEFORE THE INTERVIEW BEGINS). THIS IS DETECTIVE O CAMB

Transcription

1 1 INTERVIEW WITH: INTERVIEWED BY: DETECTIVE STEVE O CAMB DATE OF INTERVIEW: DECEMBER 30, 2010 CASE NUMBER: 09I DATE TRANSCRIBED: SEPTEMBER 20, 2011 TRANSCRIBED BY: ROXANN GARDUNO EM: EM: (THERE IS 45 SECONDS OF BACKGROUND NOISE AND TALKING BEFORE THE INTERVIEW BEGINS). THIS IS DETECTIVE O CAMB HI HI HOW ARE YOU? GOOD GOOD GOOD CAN I PUT IT ON THE TABLE? I M STEVE (INAUDIBLE) YEAH GO AHEAD AND SIT OVER THERE WE LL, WE LL BE ABLE TO (INAUDIBLE) AH HE S GONNA STEP OUTSIDE BECAUSE WE JUST DEAL ONE ON ONE CUZ WE CAN T HAVE ANY AMBIEN NOISE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT OKAY SO HE LL BE OUTSIDE IF I SCREAM AND NEED HIM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT YOU MIGHT YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR HIM REAL QUICK CUZ? OKAY ALRIGHT YOU CAN GET OUT AND GET A FEEL OF WHERE EVER YOU WANT I MEAN IT V

2 DOESN T MATTER THIS WORKS BETTER ONLY IT SLIDES WELL THAT ONE S SCOOT UP A LITTLE CUZ YOU RE GONNA HAVE TO SIT UP HERE AT THE TABLE YEAH THAT S ALRIGHT IT SLIDES OH WELL I BROUGHT THIS THING TO BECAUSE WHAT WE DO IS WE HANG A MICROPHONE ON YOUR SHIRT SO I DON T KNOW AH THAT WAY THIS WAY WE CAN ADJUST THE HEIGHT OF IT TO APPROPRIATE SO WE LL SEE IF WE NEED IT WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT OKAY IT LL BE IN BITS WE GOT TO CHAT FOR A MINUTE AND SEE OH GREAT, GREAT WHAT ALL S GOING ON (WHISTLING) ALL RIGHT FIRST OF ALL I LL JUST HAVE YA SIGN THIS BASICALLY IT S JUST SAYING THAT YOU WOULD AGREE TO TAKE A VOICE STRESS ANALYSIS WHICH IS A TRUTH VERIFICATION, ARE YOU ALRIGHT THERE? YEAH I KNOW I JUST BLEW MY NOSE LIKE, LIKE (TWO PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE) I KNOW YEAH CAN YOU HAND ME THE KLEENEX BOX PLEASE? YEAH NO WORRIES I MEAN YOU NEED SOME WATER OR SOMETHING OR? I DON T THINK SO, OKAY SO IT SAYS NO YOU RE FINE I MEAN I DON T WANT YOUR NOSE TO KEEP BLEEDING (LAUGH, LAUGH) YOU HIT ME (LAUGH, LAUGH) I WAS STILL READING HE HIT ME (LAUGH, LAUGH) WELL EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT, THAT WOULDN T BE TRUE THEN I M A LOVER NOT A FIGHTER I M ALWAYS NICE TO EVERYBODY. AH SO THIS RIGHT HERE AND I LL LET YA READ IT V

3 BASICALLY WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT YOU TALKED TO DETECTIVE MAXWELL AH HUH AGREED TO TAKE THIS TEST WHAT IT IS, IS WE HAVE A SHORT TEST YOU AND I LL WRITE THE QUESTIONS TOGETHER AND JUST BASICALLY VERIFY THAT WHAT YOU VE TOLD THEM IS TRUE OKAY AND IF THAT S THE CASE YOU RE OUT HERE OKAY COOL! READ THROUGH THIS AND THEN AH SIGN IT AND WE LL GO ON FROM THERE. AND THE KEY THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS AH HUH THIS IS REALLY INTERACTIVE PROCESS SO OKAY IF THERE S ANYTHING THAT COMES TO YOUR MIND AS WE RE TALKING OR WHATEVER AH HUH JUST ASK ME OKAY I DON T WANT THERE TO BE THERE S NO TRICKS TO THIS GAME, THERE S NO ANYTHING WE RE TRYING TO HIDE AH HUH WE WANT YA TO FEEL LIKE YOU RE A PART OF THE PROCESS OKAY CUZ ULITMATELY WE RE TRYING TO GET YOU OUT OF HERE GREAT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AH HUH WE VE DONE A LOT OF THIS ON THESE A LOT OF THESE ON THIS CASE SO V

4 AND I M THE ONE THAT USUALLY DOES THEM ALL SO OKAY SO READ THROUGH THAT REAL QUICK AND THEN AH JUST SIGN AND DATE IT OKAY IF YOU NEED IT WE CAN GIVE YA A MINUTE TO USE THE RESTROOM OR SOMETHING I DON T KNOW IF IT WOULD HELP HUH, HUH LIKE..OKAY MAKE SURE YOU READ IT LIKE I SAID I DON T WANT EVERYTHING TO FEEL LIKE.. YOU D UNDERSTAND YOU KNOW EVERYTHING.. SO IF I REFUSE THIS AT THIS TIME AT ANYTIME OR (INAUDIBLE) TO ANY CASE AT WHICH I M INVOLVED IN YEAH IT S BASICALLY JUST CUZ SAY WE GOT PART WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS YOU SAID YOU KNOW UM I DON T WANT TO DO THIS AH HUH IT DOESN T SAY THAT YOU RE GUILTY OF THE CASE IT S JUST PART OF THE INVESTIGATORY PROCESS THAT WE USE AH HUH I THINK I THREW UP I BETTER LET YOU USE THE RESTROOM I THINK FOR A MINUTE CUZ THAT ONE HIT ON YOUR SHIRT OH MY GOODNESS I CAN T BELIEVE THIS GRAB THAT HANDFUL OF THE LITTLE ONES AND WE LL THROW THEM AWAY WHEN WE RE I M SORRY! HEY NO WORRIES (LAUGH) WORSE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED I CAN PROMISE YOU OH GOOD..OH MY GOODNESS (INAUDIBLE) WHOW! BETTER KEEP SOMETHING ON THAT V

5 I KNOW I M GONNA (INAUDIBLE) JUST THREW THE RAG HERE (INAUDIBLE) (THE DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES)... (THERE IS APPROXIMATELY 2 MINUTES OF DEAD AIR) (THE DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES AGAIN). (APPROXIMATELY 2 MORE MINUTES OF BACKGROUND NOISE AND DEAD AIR BEFORE THE INTERVIEW RESUMES) I M SORRY YOU NEED SOME MORE WATER OR YOU ALRIGHT WHILE I M UP UM SOME WATER WOULD BE GREAT OKAY I LL GRAP YA ANOTHER CUP OKAY THANKS A LOT. (TALKING IN THE BACKGROUND). ALRIGHT THERE YA GO THANK YOU SO MUCH NO WORRIES. ONE MORE THING TO I JUST PUT MY PHONE ON VIBRATE (THE DOOR CLOSES) YOU CAN T HAVE ANYTHING THAT MAKES NOISE CUZ IT CAN INTERFER OKAY SO IF YOU GOT THAT PHONE ON (INAUDIBLE) YOU WANT ME TO TURN IT OFF IF IT S ON SILENT IT DOESN T MAKE ANY NOISE OR VIBRATE THAT S GOOD WHATEVER OKAY AS LONG AS IT DOESN T RING OUT WHILE WE SHOULD BE FINE OKAY ALRIGHT UM YEAH SO I LL EXPLAIN TO YOU THEN THE TEST WORDS AND THEN WE LL MOVE TO THOSE HERE. DO YOU HAVE THAT PEN STILL? OH YEAH OKAY V

6 SORRY I WORKED IN THE JAIL BACK IN THE DAY SO I ALWAYS HAD A PEN SITTING AROUND (LAUGH, LAUGH) IT COULD END UP BEING A TATTOO (INAUDIBLE) WHAT S THE POLICE PART OF THIS NO PLACE FOR THEM TAKE ALL OF OUR STUFF PENS, ANYTHING VALUABLE. BASICALLY WHAT THE DEAL IS, GO AHEAD, WITH THIS AH TEST IS THAT IT, IT MEASURES YOUR AH THE FM IN YOUR VOICE UM HUM AND BASICALLY IT S AN INAUDIBLE DIFFERENCE TO YOUR EAR WELL YOU KNOW LIKE DOGS CAN HEAR DOG WHISTLES UM HUH THAT WE CAN T HEAR UM HUH BASICALLY THE COMPUTER CAN DETECT PATTERNS IN YOUR VOICE THAT WE CAN T HEAR AUDIBLY BUT THE IT WILL DETECT WHEN THE PATTERNS READ THROUGH THE COMPUTER. SO BASICALLY WHAT IT IS, IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE BEING AH DIS-UNTRUTHFUL OR WHATEVER DISHONEST WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT ABOUT A CERTAIN SUBJECT THEIR VOCAL CORDS WILL TENSE UP KIND OF THEIR, A LOT OF PEOPLE S BODY TENSES UP UM HUM YOU KNOW HOW KIDS ARE THEY GET LIKE ALL ANTSY WHEN THEIR TELLING A LIE UM HUM AND YOUR VOCAL CORDS DO THE SAME THING AND SO EVEN IF YOU TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION DIFFERENT IT STILL SHOULD, THE COMPUTER WILL STILL READ INAUDIBLE TO THEM SO. BASICALLY IT S A COMMON THING WE DO IT ON ALL OF OUR OFFICERS THAT APPLY TO WORK HERE, WE DO IT ON EVERY CASES FROM LIKE STOLEN BIKES TO MURDER CASES V

7 YOU KNOW I M JUST ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES THAT GETS TO DO THEM ALL THE TIME SO. I DO ENJOY DOING THEM BECAUSE AH IT S NOT MADE FOR PEOPLE TO FAIL I KNOW I WOULD SAY PROBABLY SAY HALF TO TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRUTHFUL PSST YOUR OUT OF HERE AND THAT S OBVIOUSLY THAT S WHAT THE GOAL IS FOR US YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, SO HOW WE LL, HOW WE LL PROGRESS FROM HERE NOW THAT YOU VE SIGNED THE WAIVER WE LL GO THROUGH I HAVE SOME BACKGROUND QUESTIONS, I DON T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THIS CASE BECAUSE IT S KIND OF LIKE SECRET YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM HUM THOSE GUYS DO THEIR THING AND THEY ONLY CALL US IF THEY NEED US SPECIFIC UM HUM HELP ON SOMETHING, SO I MIGHT ASK YA STUFF THAT YOU RE GOING DAM I VE BEEN ASKED THAT TEN TIMES SO I LL JUST APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR THAT ONE OKAY? OKAY IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ALONG THE WAY I LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM AND AH LIKE I SAID IT S, IT S AN INTERACTIVE PROCRESS IT S NOT SOMETHING THAT I M JUST GONNA SIT HERE AND BE LIKE, YOU LIE OKAY OKAY AH DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THAT I NEED THAT PEN (LAUGH, LAUGH) NICE TRY THOUGH (LAUGH, LAUGH) HEY DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE YOUR DRIVER S LICENSE OR SOME TYPE OF IDENTIFICATION WITH YOU? V

8 I DON T WHAT S AH DO YOU KNOW YOUR DRIVER S LICENSE NUMBER BY ANY CHANCE? NO I DON T OH COME ON NOW! WHAT S YOUR LAST NAME?? LIKE YOU SAY LIKES, LIKE, WHAT S YOUR FIRST NAME? MIDDLE DATE OF BIRTH?. (INAUDIBLE) ALRIGHTY HERE, SO YOU KNOW AH WHAT S YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER THEN IF YOU DON T HAVE YOUR DL IT S WHAT S YOUR BEST ADDRESS? AND PHONE NUMBER? UM - DO YOU WANT MY CELL OR HOME? AH LET S DO HOME FIRST THEN DO CELL AFTER THAT UM HUM AND WHAT S THE CELL? OR UM V

9 ARE YOU EMPLOYED RIGHT NOW? NO OKAY WHAT DO YOU USUALLY WORK AS, WHAT TYPE OF FIELD? UM SALES OUTSIDE SALES OKAY WHEN S THE LAST TIME YOU WORKED? HUM UM.ABOUT A YEAR AGO OKAY YEAR AND A HALF AGO WHERE D YOU WORK AT LAST? UM A RESTAURANT AND SERVE EQUIPMENT COMPANY SO IT WAS LIKE A YEAR AGO YOU SAY DID YOU QUIT THERE OR WHAT HAPPENED OVER THAT? UM I WAS LET GO SO WE LL SAY 9/OF 2009 OKAY ALRIGHTY OKAY A LOT OF THESE ARE AH BACKGROUND INFORMATION THAT USUALLY DON T EVEN APPLY TO THE CASE AND SO I LL JUST READ THROUGH SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT MIGHT SEEM GOOFY BUT BASICALLY AH HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN UTAH, ARE YOU MARRIED, DIVORCED ANYTHING LIKE THAT? OKAY, DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER NOW OR YEAH JUST START RATTLING THEM OFF AND I LL TAKE NOTES AND THE MORE YOU ANSWER THE LESS I LL HAVE TO ASK (LAUGH, LAUGH) OKAY SO UM I VE LIVED IN UTAH SINCE I WAS EWW I BELIEVE WE MOVED HERE WHEN I WAS AROUND SEVEN OR EIGHT OKAY I M THIRTY-ONE NOW UM I LIVED IN KANSAS FOR THREE OR FOUR YEARS INBETWEEN THAT TIME OKAY V

10 AND FROM THERE JOB TRANSFER, I M NOT MARRIED YOU WERE AN ADULT OR A JUVENILE WHEN YOU MOVED? UM AN ADULT WOW HOW DID YOU LIKE KANSAS? I LOVED IT, IT WAS AWESOME DID YA HOW COME YOU CAME BACK THEN? UM I WAS LAYED OFF FROM MY JOB AND OH REALLY! AND MY FAMILY WAS OUT HERE SO I VE BEEN TO KANSAS A NUMBER OF TIMES, MY CAR GOT DESTROYED BY A HAIL STORM OUT THERE BY KANSAS THIS YEAR OH NO YEAH THAT WAS PRETTY SWEET YEAH TOTALLED IT ACTUALLY BUMMER AH WHAT SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO? I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL AND THEN STATE UNIVERSITY NICE, WHAT YEAR DID YOU GRADUATE FROM? 97 97? UM HUM AND DID YOU GRADUATE FROM? YES WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? I CAN T EVEN REMEMBER NOW 2000 AND WELL YOU GOT THAT DEGREE I KNOW IT WAS 2004 I GUESS 2002 WHAT DID YOU GRADUATE IN? V

11 UM IN COMMUNICATIONS NICE AND IT S A BACHELOR S DEGREE? UM HUM NICE THAT WAS MY MAJOR IN COLLEGE TO OH COOL A MINOR IN PRINT AND JOURNALISM TO SO OH THAT S NOT BAD. OKAY HOW ABOUT EMPLOYMENT HISTORY UM OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL I WORKED FOR, I WAS AN ASSISTANT MANAGER AT THE LAYTON, AFTER THAT I WORKED FOR, WELL I WORKED FORWHO DID I WORK FOR AFTER THAT LIKE UM HUM CREDIT CARD, OUT SOURCE SERVICE, AFTER THAT I WORKED FOR UM I WORKED FOR THEM ALL LIKE IN SALES OR WERE YOU WORKING IN DIFFERENT ASPECTS WELL AT FIRST UM CUSTOMER SERVICE THEN I DID SALES THAT S WHERE I FIRST STARTED DOING THE OUTSIDE SALES OKAY WORKED FOR INSIDE SALES FIRST AND THEN MOVED ONTO OUTSIDE SALES COOL UM THEY TRANSFERRED ME TO KANSAS THEY SHUT DOWN THEIR FACILITY HERE IN UTAH THEY MOVED ME OUT THERE UM HUM WORKED FOR THEM FOR ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO YEARS OUT THERE AND THEN I GOT LAYED OFF WAS THAT JUST LIKE ECONOMIC CUT BACKS OR? AH HUH DEALERS WERE REALLY CUTTING BACK UM THEY WEREN T V

12 DOING SO GOOD I THINK THEY EXPANDED TOO QUICKLY AND THAT S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE YEAH THIS WASN T A TIME TO BE EXPANDING YEAH LABOR SO THAT WAS A WHILE AGO AND, AND THEN I DECIDED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND I WAS GONNA GO INTO NURSING BUT THAT DIDN T REALLY WORK OUT I MOVED BACK HERE AND THEN I JUST STARTED DOING SALES AGAIN SO YOU WENT TO SCHOOL IN KANSAS? UM HUM JUST FOR A SHORT TIME I WENT TO A COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND DID MY PREREQUISITES OH WHAT WAS THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE OUT THERE? COMMUNITY COLLEGE HUM HAVEN T HEARD OF THAT ONE BEFORE YEAH AND I DID ALL MY PRE-REQ S FOR NURSING LIKE ALL I NEEDED WAS ZOOLOGY UM HUM STUFF LIKE THAT AND THAT WAS IN KANSAS RIGHT? UM HUM COOL, HOW ABOUT YOU HAVE ANY MILITARY SERVICE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO BUT I WAS A MILITARY BRAT IN MY DAY (LAUGH, LAUGH) THAT WAS ENOUGH SERVICE HUH? YEAH MY DAD WAS UM IN THE AIR FORCE I WAS BORN AT AT SHEPHARD S AIR FORCE BASE THEN WE MOVED TO MISSISSIPPI BILOXI, MISSISSIPPI, THEN ILLINOIS, THEN OHIO, THEN UTAH V

13 WOW! AND MY MOM AND DAD WERE BORN AND RAISED IN MICHIGAN NO KIDDING, I WAS UP THERE IN MARQUETTE LAST YEAR AT THE UPPER PENISULA YEAH WE WENT THAT S WHERE THEY MET UP WITH ME THIS SUMMER OH REALLY IS THE UPPER PENISULA AT FAYETTE THAT PLACE IS BEAUTIFUL HOLY MOSES YEAH IT S FAYETTE THAT LAKE SUPERIOR IS COOLER NOW THOUGH IT WAS PRETTY WARM THIS YEAR ACTUALLY WAS IT? YEAH THEY SAID IT WAS WAS IT? GOD I GOT THERE LAST YEAR AND I WAS LIKE WHOO IT WAS LIKE ICE WATER (LAUGH, LAUGH) IT IS THE LARGEST LAKE JESUS SO IT TAKES MORE TIME TO HEAT IT UP YEAH WE STOOD IN ALL THE GREAT LAKES ON THAT TRIP COOL FUN YEAH IT WAS PRETTY COOL YEAH IT S BEAUTIFUL THERE I LOVE IT, I WOULDN T MIND LIVING UP IN THE UPPER PENISULA YEAH MY DAD WANTS TO RETIRE UP THERE AND YEAH IT S BEAUTIFUL I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THAT AND UPSTATE NEW YORK YEAH AH HAVE YOU HAD ANY JUVENILE DIFFICULTIES WITH THE LAW DID YOU EVER GET ARRESTED, INCARCERATED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? V

14 JUVENILE NO YEAH (LAUGH, LAUGH) JUVENILE I WAS A PERFECT ANGEL (LAUGH, LAUGH) NEVER HAD TO GO IN FRONT OF THE PROBATION OFFICER OR NOTHING? NEVER WOW JUVENILE I DIDN T START GETTING IN TROUBLE UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO TWO YEARS AGO WELL I DON T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR TROUBLE THEN I GOT IN SOME REALLY (TWO PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE) WELL THAT S THE NEXT QUESTION SO OH (INAUDIBLE) IS ANY ADULT CRIMINAL HISTORY? YES TONS, YOU NAME IT I VE DONE IT I M JUST KIDDING OKAY GIVE ME A BRIEF SYNOPSIS OF IT THEN STARTED USING METH UM THEN I STARTED DOING MASSAGES, THEN I STARTED DOING FRAUDULENT THINGS AND THEN I GOT CAUGHT UP WITH OTHER GUYS THAT STOLE CARS UM CARRIED GUNS, AH YEAH I THINK THAT S JUST WOW! YEAH I LIVING ON THE WILD SIDE THERE HUH? YEAH YOU THREW IN AN ODD ONE THERE THOUGH YOU HAD ALL THESE CRIMES AND THEN YOU HAD DOING MASSAGES YES I KNOW, WELL I LOVED THIS LIKE I WANTED TO BE A MASSAGE THERAPIST AND THAT WAS THE VERY FIRST THING AND STARTED DOING YOU KNOW MASSAGES WITH HAPPY ENDINGS AND V

15 YEAH AND THAT WAS GONNA BE MY NEXT QUESTION IS BECAUSE YOU THREW IT IN THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF CRIMES NO IT WAS AT THE FIRST OF THE CRIMES I LISTED THE ORDER WAY WELL YEAH THEN YOU SAID CRIMES (LAUGH, LAUGH) THEN YOU COME BACK WITH MASSAGES WELL YEAH I SAID DEALING WITH THEM IS LIKE I GUESS THAT IS THE SECOND AND THAT WAS YOU WERE JUST DOING THAT TA AH SUPPORT YOUR HABIT OR? PAY BILLS AND HOW MUCH WERE YA USING? UM WELL NOT REALLY TO SUPPORT MY HABIT BUT UM MOSTLY TO SUPPORT ME AND MY BOY FRIEND AND EVERYBODY AND HIS HABIT RIGHT? HIS MOTHER, AND HIS HABIT AND YEAH YEAH THAT SEEMS TO BE A FREQUENT THING, PEOPLE ARE UNEMPLOYED NO JAIL BEING AND THEY WANT THE LADY TO PAY EVERYTHING FOR THEM OH I KNOW IT S WONDERFUL. I M LIKE I NEED A GUY TO BE ALL MY STUFF HELLO YEAH JUST KIDDING REVERSE THE ROLES A LITTLE BIT YEAH SO DID YOU GET ARRESTED DURING THAT PERIOD IN TIME? OH MANY, MANY TIMES OKAY DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY TIMES? V

16 FREAK, UM PROBABLY LIKE FIFTEEN MAYBE AH AND THEN I JUST GOT DONE SERVING A TWO-HUNDRED DAY SENTENCE AND WHERE WAS THAT AT? AND A.D.C.M. IN SALT LAKE IN SALT LAKE HUH..AND WHEN DID YOU GET OUT FROM THAT? THE END OF JUNE AND WAS THAT FOR POCS OR WHAT WAS THAT? DRUGS WHAT IS POCS POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE OH THAT WAS FOR IDENTITY THEFT, FRAUDULENT UM FORGERY, TWO FORGERIES, TWO IDENTITY THEFTS AND A POSSESSION OF METHAMPHETAMINE OKAY THE WHOLE PACKAGE THERE HUH YEAH THEY LET ALL THE OTHER FELONIES GO SO THAT WAS A GOOD DEAL YEAH CUZ USUALLY THEY PILE UP AND YOU RE OUT FRAUDING CHECKS AND STUFF YEAH WE LL SEE YEAH I WAS MAKING PAYROLL AND DOING I.D S AND YEAH LOTS OF FUN STUFF SO WHAT S THE SCOOP NOW CUZ THE NEXT QUESTION IS AH YOU EITHER JAIL OR PRISON FINE YOU VE NEVER BEEN TO PRISON BUT YOU VE BEEN TO COUNTY JAIL AH HUH AND ARE YA STILL ON PAPER OR? YES I M ON PROBATION I M SENTENCED TO THREE YEARS BUT MY PROBATION OFFICER THINKS THAT IF I KEEP DOING WELL THAT MAYBE I LL GET OFF IN ONE YEAR AND WHAT WOULD BE AH DOING WELL WHAT WOULD THAT ENTAIL? V

17 LIKE GETTING A JOB I M ALMOST DONE WITH MY COMMUNITY SERVICE HOURS HOW MANY HOURS DID YOU GET? UM A HUNDRED AND EIGHTY WHAT ARE YOUR OTHER AH STIPULATIONS OF PROBATION? ZERO TOLLERANCE, UM I M SUPPOSED TO GO I THINK WELL I NEED TO ATTEND I ATTEND ADDICTION/RECOVERY CLASSES UM HUM AND STUFF LIKE THAT I THINK THAT S PART OF IT BUT I DON T REALLY KNOW WELL I M SURE IT PROBABLY IS YEAH SO I JUST NEED TO FINISH YOU DON T HAVE IT SPELLED OUT FOR YA IN A PLAN? NO YOU KNOW THE OLD SAYING THE FAMILY THAT PLANS, PLANS THEMSELVES I KNOW, I KNOW IT WASN T REALLY BAD I JUST HAVE TO CHECK IN AND GET A JOB I THINK IS A HUGE THING RIGHT YEAH IT ALWAYS IS I THINK IT S REALLY ALL THAT SO IT S HARD TO THINK THAT PEOPLE HAVE AH ARE NOT COMMITTING CRIMES TO MAKE MONEY IF THEY OR DON T HAVE A JOB YEAH (LAUGH, LAUGH) YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I M GONNA GO HOME WITH MY PARENTS, NO CAR, NO WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT ALL THE DRAMA? YEAH THEIR NOT THIS YOU KNOW I M THE ONLY DAUGHTER THAT S EVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG YEAH V

18 SO IT S KIND A HARD ON THEM AND OH I M SURE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY RAISED LDS YEAH KAYSVILLE S A NICE PLACE TO YEAH SO HOW DID I TURN OUT SO WRONG (LAUGH) WELL THERE S ALWAYS HOPE YEAH IT S NOT LIKE YOUR SIXTY (LAUGH, LAUGH) AH HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY AH POLYGRAPH EXAMS, VOICE STRESS ANALYSIS ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE? NO NEVER. ALRIGHT THE ONE OF THE ODD QUESTIONS IS THERE ANY UNDETECTED CRIMES THAT WOULD BE WEIGHING ON YOUR MIND? YOU HAVEN T KILLED ANYBODY WITH AN AX AND THROWN THEM IN A WOOD CHIPPER OR ANYTHING? I WANTED TO A COUPLE OF TIMES (LAUGH, LAUGH) BUT NEVER DONE IT WE VE ALL WANTED TO NOTHING THAT YOU CAN THINK OF THAT DOESN T APPLY TO WHAT WE RE DISCUSSING TODAY WITH THE THAT CAN AFFECT YOUR FAIR MIND? I DON T THINK SO I VE MEAN IF YOU VE BEEN ON DRUGS AND FRAUD, I MEAN I M NOT TALKING ABOUT I KNOW THERE S ALWAYS I M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT I M TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE OUT OF THE ORDINARY YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN THAT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW ABOUT OR THAT YOU KNOW MAYBE YOU RE A WITNESS TO SOME V

19 HORRIFIC EVENT I DON T UM, UM THAT IF WE DABBLED CLOSE TO THAT AREA THAT YOU WOULD YOU KNOW SHOW THAT YOU GOT SOME STRESS ON YOUR ANSWERS NO I DON T THINK SO OKAY.I MEAN WE VE ALL SPED AND DONE SHIT LIKE THAT SHOPLIFTED YOU KNOW THE BASIC STUFF WHAT S THAT S I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT. UM HUM LOTS OF THINGS A LOT OF THE STUFF AND IF IT S ON YOUR MIND LET S TALK ABOUT IT, CUZ BASICALLY NOT MUCH OF YOUR LIFE APPLIES TO THIS CASE APPARENTLY UH, UH NONE OF IT HARDLY SO YEAH AND THAT S THE THING SO WE LL HAVE JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT SPECIFIC TO THIS CASE AND THEN THAT LL BE IT SO ALRIGHT THE NEXT THING IS AN INCIDENT REVIEW OF THE SUBJECT AH WE ALL KNOW PARTS OF THIS CASE, SO I GUESS MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE WHY ARE YOU HERE? I SUPPOSEDLY KNOW SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS SOME INFORMATION THAT THEIR LOOKING FOR OKAY ON SOMEBODY OKAY SO ELABORATE FOR ME ON THAT AND THEN CUZ WE LL BASE SOME OF OUR QUESTIONS OFF THAT INFORMATION AH I KNEW THIS GUY WELL FREAK I DON T EVEN KNOW SUPPOSEDLY I KNOW THIS, THIS GIRL WHO HAD SOME KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS GUY THAT DID THIS HORRIBLE THING AND I M SUPPOSED TO THEY VE AND HE S SUPPOSEDLY HAS TOLD HER ABOUT THESE HORRIBLE THINGS HE S DONE AND I KNOW HER SO I WAS SUPPOSE TO KNOW SOMETHING I GUESS V

20 OKAY THAT S FAIR ENOUGH (LAUGH, LAUGH) OH MY GOSH I WAS ACTUALLY FOLLOWING IT I OH GOOD YEY I DIDN T THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU HAD AN ACCENT OR SOMETHING IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TOUGHER BUT IT WASN T TOO BAD (LAUGH, LAUGH) GOOD OKAY SO LET S START WITH THIS THEN WHO IS IT THAT YOU KNOW THAT HAS THE INFORMATION? A, A GIRL NAMED OKAY, AND WHAT S S LAST NAME? I HAVE NO IDEA OKAY YOU JUST KNOW HER BY? I DON T EVEN KNOW IF I KNOW HER BY HOW DO YOU KNOW HER THEN? PEOPLE SAY THAT THEY VE SEEN HER, SEEN ME WITH HER AND LIKE METH DOES A HORRIBLE THING TO YOUR MIND YEAH AS FAR AS MEMORY GOES THINGS LIKE THAT I USE TO HAVE A PERFECT MEMORY I COULD REMEMBER EVERYTHING, EVERY COLOR, EVERYTHING YOU WORE, EVERY AND NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE SO THE DETECTIVES ARE SAYING THAT YOU KNOW OR YOUR FRIENDS OR WHO IS IT? UM THEY EVERYONE IS? EVERYONE NO JUST KIDDING IT S A CONSPIRACY JUST KIDDING, UM THE DETECTIVES ARE SAYING THAT I KNOW HER FROM A SOURCE THAT THEY GOT WHO I USE TO BE AN ACQUAINTANCE WITH WHO S THAT? V

21 HIS NAMES OR OR I DON T KNOW WHAT THEY CALL HIM AND THIS GIRL IS FRIENDS WITH IS THAT WHAT YOU RE SAYING? I DON T KNOW IF SHE S NECESSARILY FRIENDS WITH BUT SHE S FRIENDS WITH ME SUPPOSEDLY BUT I THINK WILL SAY ANYTHING TO HURRY TO GET OUT OF JAIL AND OBVIOUSLY HE GOT OUT AND THEN HE RAN AND THAT S KIND OF FUNNY WHAT AND THIS S NAME DOES HE HAVE A NICK NAME OR SOMETHING ELSE HE GOES BY? I DON T KNOW HIS LAST NAME IS UM I ALWAYS KNEW HIM BY I WORKED WITH HIM AT A RESTAURANT AND (INAUDIBLE) COMPANY ACTUALLY OH OKAY, SO TELL ME FROM THERE THEN ABOUT OKAY NOW WE KNOW WHO AND ARE BECAUSE YOU JUST TOLD ME, SO TELL ME HOW THIS SCENERIO WENT AGAIN WHO TOLD WHO WHAT, WHERE AND WHY AH I GUESS TOLD OFFICERS THAT I KNEW THIS GIRL OKAY AND THE OFFICERS CAME AND ASKED ME IF I KNEW THIS GIRL I DON T KNOW A VERY WELL AT ALL I DON T KNOW I DON T I THINK I VE HEARD OF THE NAME A COUPLE OF TIMES UM HUM DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, SO I WAS JUST LIKE WELL I DON T REMEMBER AND THEIR LIKE WELL YOU WERE ON A DATE WITH HER AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE AND I M LIKE I WAS OOKAY UM I DON T REALLY REMEMBER BEING ON A DATE, I REMEMBER BEING AT THE PLACE THEY TALKED TO ME ABOUT BEING WITH HER AT BUT I DON T REMEMBER HER BEING V

22 THERE AND WHERE WAS WHAT WAS THAT? BOWLING OKAY SO WORKED WITH YOU THAT S HOW YOU FOUND RESTAURANT SUPPLY THEN I RAN IN THEN I QUIT, I GOT FIRED FROM RESTAURANT AND SERVE EQUIPMENT COMPANY WELL HE GOT FIRED BEFORE I DID WHY D YOU GUYS GET FIRED? FOR TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE REASONS, HE GOT FIRED FOR STEALING A BLENDER AND SOME STUFF OUT OF THE WAREHOUSE, CUZ HE WORKED IN THE WAREHOUSE AND I GOT FIRED BECAUSE I JUST STOPPED GIVING A CRAP YEAH AND NOT SHOWING UP TO WORK CUZ I WAS HIGH YEAH NO CALL NO SHOW THEN BASICALLY HUH? UM HUM HE GOT FIRED FOR STEALING HUH? UM HUM SO ANYWAYS HE TELLS THE OFFICERS WHAT? WELL OKAY SO I RAN IN, SO AFTER WE BOTH HAD GOTTEN FIRED A WHILE LATER I RAN INTO HIM MY FRIEND CALLED FOR A RIDE CUZ MY CAR HAD THE FUEL FILTER, FUEL PUMP WASN T WORKING REALLY WELL UM HUM AND UM SO SHE CALLED HER FRIEND TO GET US A RIDE SO SHOWED UP, I M LIKE OH MY GOSH (INAUDIBLE) SO FUNNY SMALL WORLD AND I GUESS HE S REALLY INTO FRAUDULENT THINGS AND I HAD BEEN DOING SOME FRAUDULENT THINGS MYSELF AND SO WE KIND A COMPARED NOTES AND WE GOT HIM A BIG T.V. AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH SO THEN WE HUNG OUT AND I REMEMBER GOING KIND OF MAYBE ON A V

23 DOUBLE DATE OR SOME KIND OF THING WITH HIM AND HIS FRIENDS TO UM HUM WHERE I REMEMBER THEM DRINKING BEER, PLAYING POOL, PLAYING YOU KNOW VIDEO GAMES THAT KIND A THING AH HUH AND ONE OF THE GUYS WAS HITTING ON ME AND THAT S (INAUDIBLE) SO YOU WERE DATING AT THE TIME? NO, NO, NO YOU WERE JUST HANGING OUT YEAH JUST HANGING OUT WHO WERE YOU ON A DATE WITH THEN? HIS FRIEND I DON T REMEMBER HIS NAME EITHER.HECK NO EHKKK I WOULD NEVER DATE HOW DO YOU NOT REMEMBER HIS FRIENDS NAME (LAUGH, LAUGH) I HAVE NO IDEA, DID THAT FOR A FEW DAYS UM HADN T EATEN A LOT MAYBE THAT S HOW OKAY SO AND I NEVER REALLY MET HIM BEFORE AND I DIDN T GO OUT WITH HIM AGAIN AFTER THAT OH SO WHAT DOES THE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS CASE? THAT S WHERE SUPPOSEDLY SHOWED UP AND WE TALKED AND THIS OTHER GUY THAT DID THESE HORRIBLE THINGS WAS THERE TO, BUT I DON T EVEN REMEMBER HIM. AND SO HOW DOES THAT APPLY TO OUR CASE? THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT AND, AND THAT MIGHT BE TRUE IF YOU TOLD ME WHO THEY WERE, LIKE YOU RE JUST TELLING ME PERSONS AND PEOPLE IF YOU GOT TO TELL THE NAMES OR THE STORY HERE CUZ I M GONNA ASK YA QUESTIONS V

24 OKAY RELATED TO WHAT YOU VE TOLD ON, ON THE STORY YOU RE TELLING ME TO MAKE SURE THAT S BUT SEE IF I DON T EVEN REALLY KNOW THEIR NAMES THAT S THE THING I M HAVING A PROBLEM WITH YEAH THAT BUT SINCE THEN THEY TOLD ME THAT OFFICERS OR WHATEVER IS THAT WAY YEAH, YEAH AND SO YOU QUITE POSSIBLY YOU HAVE ASSOCIATED A NAME WITH WHO IT WAS RIGHT? OKAY SO THAT GIRL IS BUT YOU HAVE I DON T REMEMBER S FRIENDS NAME AND THE GUY THAT SHE WAS WITH IS JOSH OKAY POWELL NOW IF YOUR FRIENDS ALL TOLD YOU THAT AND THE OFFICERS TOLD YA THAT I MEAN ARE YOU PRETTY MUCH SET THAT, THAT S WHAT HAPPENED THEN OR YOU JUST DON T REMEMBER IT OR WHAT? I DON T REMEMBER IT, BUT I M ASSUMING I MEAN THEY WERE THERE AND THEY WEREN T DOING DRUGS AS MUCH AS I WAS I GUESS THEY WEREN T WHO WAS THERE? I DON T THINK WAS BUT I DON T KNOW THAT THE OTHER GUYS OKAY SO THIS WAS AT IT S A BOWLING ALLEY YES AND JOSH IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? AH HUH WHO ELSE? ME, AND S FRIEND I DON T REMEMBER HIS NAME MUST HAVE BEEN A BAD DATE HUH? V

25 YEAH HE WAS REALLY HANDSY (LAUGH, LAUGH) I REMEMBER HIM BEING HANDSY AND JUST ANNOYING. OKAY SO SINCE, SO HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN THIS THEN, WHEN HAD TALKED TO THE POLICE THAT WAS IT HE TOLD THEM THAT I KNEW THAT WE WERE BEST FRIENDS AND WE HUNG OUT ALL THE TIME AND THAT I WOULD KNOW HOW TO GET A HOLD WITH HER OR THAT YOU HAD SOME CONVERSATION WITH HER APPARENTLY ABOUT SOME THIS CASE RIGHT? UM HUM OKAY SO WHAT, SO WHAT ARE THE DETAILS OF THAT WHAT IS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF HER AT ALL, CUZ OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WILL BE RELATED TO SOMETHING WITH HER YOU KNOW YEAH BECAUSE IF SHE S INVOLVED OBVIOUSLY THEY WANT TO TALK TO HER YEAH (LAUGH, LAUGH) YEAH I KNOW I M NOT A BRAIN SURGEON OR ROCKET SCIENCTIST NO (INAUDIBLE) (TWO PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE) YEAH BUT I M THINKING IF SHE KNOWS AND YOU KNOW THEN THEY WANT TO TALK TO HER AND THAT WILL GET YOU OUT OF THE LOOP HERE THAT WOULD BE SO NICE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OH YES SO WHAT IS THE INFORMATION, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS? AH I DON T KNOW FOR, I JUST KNOW THAT THIS GUY SHE WAS DATING OR USING OR WHATEVER JOSH IS ACCUSED OF KILLING HIS WIFE UM AND V

26 BURYING HER OR SOMETHING AND I DON T KNOW UM HUM AND SUPPOSEDLY UM THEY THINK THAT HE WOULD OF TOLD SOMETHING ABOUT THIS THAT HE DID OR NOT DID OR WHATEVER AND SO THEY WOULD LIKE ME TO HELP FIND SO SHE CAN TELL THEM WHAT SHE KNOWS ABOUT THIS HAS TOLD YOU IS THAT WHAT THEIR SAYING? THAT OR I JUST KNOW HER WELL ENOUGH TO FIND HER FOR THEM, I DON T KNOW BECAUSE IF I KNOW I HAVEN T TALKED TO HER IN OVER A YEAR PROBABLY YEAH OR MORE WELL IF YOU DON T KNOW WHO SHE IS YOU WOULDN T KNOW IF YOU HAVEN T TALKED TO HER FOR A YEAR HE S PLANNING (LAUGH, LAUGH) THAT S WHAT I MEAN THERE I HAVEN T SEEN HIM FOR THE LAST TWO HUNDRED DAYS I VE BEEN IN JAIL THEN RIGHT BEFORE THAT I WAS MOSTLY AROUND GUYS WITH JUST ME AND A GUY YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, SO IT WOULDN T OF BEEN HER SO I KNOW THAT I HAVEN T TALKED TO REALLY ANY GIRLS OTHER THAN LIKE THREE DIFFERENT GIRLS THAT I USUALLY HANG OUT WITH I M NOT CUZ OF BASIS AND SHE S NOT ONE OF THEM YEAH AND NONE OF THOSE ARE NAMED APPARENTLY NONE OF THEM SO YOU DON T HAVE ANY FRIENDS NAMED? NO LIKE I LOOK IN MY PHONE BOOK I DON T HAVE ANY, I DON T HAVE ANY OH WHAT ALL COMES TO YOUR MIND IS WAS A BUDDY OF YOURS AT ANY POINT IN TIME? V

27 UH, UH SO BASICALLY IF, IF DURING THE TEST IF I ASK YOU IF YOU KNOW YOUR GONNA SAY NO AND YOU LL BE ALRIGHT? YEAH HOPEFULLY NO I DON T I KNOW, WELL I FEEL LIKE I KNOW HER NOW I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT HER AND WHAT S GOING ON AND SHE S WANTED SUPPOSEDLY AND SHE USE TO BE CUTE UNTIL SHE TWEEKED TOO MUCH OR I DON T KNOW AND THAT COULD BE SAID ABOUT MANY PEOPLE (LAUGH, LAUGH) ON A SO, SO OKAY WHAT S THE INFORMATION THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS THEN? APPARENTLY HAS TOLD YOU OR YOU KNOW WHAT KNOWS SOME HOW, SO TELL ME WHAT THAT INFORMATION IS JUST THAT I DON T KNOW, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS INFORMATION IS WELL YOU JUST LAYED OUT A BUNCH OF IT YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU THE GUY THINKS HIS WIFE KILLED HER WHATEVER YEAH ABOUT THE, YEAH ABOUT WHERE THE BODY IS I THINK THAT S WHAT THEY WANT IS WHERE THE BODY IS WELL THAT S ALWAYS A GOOD PLACE TO START BUT I THINK WHAT THE QUESTION IS HERE IS THAT THEY WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU VE BEEN TRUTHFUL ABOUT CUZ OBVIOUSLY YOU VE BEEN TRUTHFUL ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS UM HUM THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE VE GOT ALL FIRST OF ALL GOT ALL THE TRUTH FROM YA OKAY BECAUSE ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE ASK A LOT OF TIMES IN THIS CASE IS WE APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION YOU VE GIVEN, YOUR NOT V

28 THE SUSPECT SO YOU RE NOT IN TROUBLE FOR THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM HUM WE JUST NEED TO VERIFY THAT EVERYTHING YOU TOLD US WAS THE TRUTH AND THEN WE GO ON TO THE NEXT STEP OKAY DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, AND SO THAT S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO HERE IS THAT YOU HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION AND YOU, YOU KNOW SOME WHERE IN MY HEAD RIGHT YEAH, AND AH THEY JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW THIS AND IF YOU DO THEY JUST NEED TO FIND HER APPARENTLY AND FIND OUT WHAT INFORMATION WAS EXCHANGED. SO BASICALLY WHEN WE RE RUNNING THE TEST WE RE GONNA NARROW IT DOWN TO JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS OKAY OF DIRECT QUESTIONS APPLICABLE TO THIS CASE, SO RIGHT NOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHAT EXACTLY YOU KNOW AND WHAT YOU DON T BECAUSE WE DON T WANT THERE TO BE A PROBLEM ON A QUESTION I AGREE MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I M LYING OR SOMETHING EXACTLY I DON T REALLY EVEN KNOW AND SEE THAT S THE HARD PART BECAUSE IT S LIKE WHEN I FIRST, WHEN I FIRST RAN INTO THESE GUYS THEY CAME UP AND SAW ME THEIR LIKE, DO YOU KNOW SO AND SO, DO YOU KNOW SO AND SO HAVE YOU EVER BEEN HERE AND THERE AND THERE, I M LIKE NO AND I HONESTLY DIDN T THINK I HAD AND THEN WHEN HE STARTS LIKE KIND A JOGGING MY MEMORY UM HUM AND MENTIONED DIFFERENT PLACES, TIMES, PEOPLE I WAS KIND A LIKE V

29 WELL THAT COULD BE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND I WASN T LYING AND I WASN T I M JUST KIND OF THINKING TO MYSELF WELL THERE, THERE COULD BE TWO THEORIES ON THAT LIKE ME AND MY BUDDIES SIT AROUND CAMP AND WE RE TELLING COP STORIES, LIKE I FORGET NINETY PERCENT THEN THEY GO HEY REMEMBER THIS TIME I M LIKE OH MY GOD I DO REMEMBER THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM HUH YEAH AND THEN THE OTHER SO THAT COULD BE PART OF WHAT IT IS AH HUH THAT YOU KNOW STUFF AND THAT YOU JUST NEED SOMETHING TO SPUR YOUR RECOLLECTION OF IT, OR TWO IT COULD BE LIKE NINETY PERCENT OF LIES TECHNICALLY STATISTICALLY OR BY OMISSION LIKE PEOPLE TELL US ESPECIALLY WITH US THEY TELL US LIKE PART OF THE TRUTH UM HUM AND THEY FORGET LIKE A LOT OF IT (LAUGH) WHICH IS APPLICABLE TO THE CASE UM HUM SO THEREFORE THEY VE, THEY VE TECHNICALLY LIED BECAUSE THEY OMITTED IMPORTANT FACTS OKAY SO WE VE ASKED A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS THING HAVE YOU OMITTED ANY INFORMATION HAVE YOU WITH HELD ANY INFORMATION THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE UM HUM AND THEN THAT WILL SAY WELL IF YOU, IF YOU TOLD US NINETY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE TRUTH BUT YOU GOT THAT FIVE PERCENT YOUR HOLDING BACK IN THE HEAD THEN IT S GONNA SHOW THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT V

30 OKAY THAT MAKE SENSE, SO THAT S WHY I NEED TO GET THE EXACT DETAILS OF YOUR INTERACTION OR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE GUYS SO WE CAN WRITE THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU LL PASS THAT WILL BE APPLICABLE. BECAUSE RIGHT LIKE I SAY YOU RE NOT THE SUSPECT HERE YEAH YOU RE A WITNESS AND OBVIOUSLY WE LL NEED CLARIFY EVERYTHING THAT WITNESSES KNOW ABOUT THE CASE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STEP OKAY SO THAT S WHY I WANT TO WRITE THE QUESTIONS TOGETHER OKAY SO THEREFORE I JUST NEED TO GET AN EXACT ACCOUNT RECOLLECTION OF WHAT YOU REMEMBER AND IF YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER I DON T CARE, I JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS AND THEN WE HAVE TO HEAD IN THE DIRECTION OF FINDING HER BECAUSE SHE IS OBVIOUSLY WAY MORE IMPORTANT IN THE CASE THAN YOU ARE IF YOU JUST HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER ON A DOUBLE DATE (LAUGH, LAUGH) I KNOW BUT SERIOUSLY IT S NOT UP TO THAT TO SO REALLY AND I DON T KNOW ABOUT THAT SO I DON T KNOW ABOUT THAT EITHER THAT S THE HORRIBLE THING I WISH I COULD BE MORE HELPFUL IN THAT SENSE SO WHERE DID YOU SUPPOSEDLY SEE HER AT AFTER THAT? SUPPOSEDLY I WAS SEEN WITH HER AT S PICKING UP SOME T.V. AND STEREO EQUIPMENT OKAY DOWN IN UTAH COUNTY THERE AND AH WHAT S THE PROBLEM WITH THAT THOUGH THAT S I DON T REMEMBER HER BEING THERE V

31 EL; 31 (INAUDIBLE) NOTHING I OWE I DON T THINK ANYTHINGS A PROBLEM WITH IT WELL NO, NO SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON T WANT TO SAY THAT THEIR WITH SOMEONE OH YEHA CUZ THEIR THINKING OH GOD THAT S ANOTHER CRIME NO I DON T REALLY CARE NOW I VE HAD SO MANY CRIMES THAT WELL THAT S THE THING YOU RE PRETTY MUCH WASHING A CLEAN SLATE NOW EXACTLY AND OBVIOUSLY ANY HELP WE CAN GET ON THIS CASE BENEFITS PEOPLE IN THE END EXACTLY YOU KNOW AND THAT S WHY WE SPENT SUCH A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME AND RESOURCES ON IT BECAUSE THE SAD THING IS THERE S TWO LITTLE KIDS THAT DON T HAVE A MOM YEAH I MEAN HONESTLY SEE YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN ME LIKE IT TO WELL THE THING IS I KNOW THE SAME AMOUNT YOU DO CUZ THE (INAUDIBLE) AND THAT S IT YEAH THEY DON T TELL US ANYTHING IF THEY NEED ME TO RUN A TEST THEY CALL ME AND SAY HEY RUN THIS TEST AND THIS IS THE PERSON YOU RE TALKING TO YEAH AND I SAY OKAY SO THEN I RUN DOWN THE DE-DETAILS WITH YOU YEAH BECAUSE BASICALLY IF I RUN THE TEST ON WHAT YOU AND I HAVE V

32 DISCUSSED AND NOT WHAT YOU VE DISCUSSED WITH THEM UM HUM THAT MAKE SENSE YES IT DOES I THINK SO, ON THE DEAL THEN? I DON T REALLY CARE I MEAN I WAS I MEAN MY EX-BOYFRIEND AND HIS MOM TURNED IN EVIDENCE AND I GUESS WE SAW I M BEING CHARGED RIGHT NOW AND WORRY ABOUT IT AND JUST I HONESTLY DON T REMEMBER HER BEING THERE WITH ME BUT WAS WITH YA AND YOU JUST DON T REMEMBER FOR SURE WAS THERE PICKING UP THE T.V. CUZ IT DIDN T FIT IN MY CAR AH HUH AND HE, HE TOLD THE OFFICERS THAT SHE WAS THERE I DON T REMEMBER HER BEING THERE WHAT KIND A CAR WERE YOU GUYS IN? A BM, MY BMW (LAUGH) I HAD A 330XI 06 HAD I GUESS HUH? UM HUM I FELL ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL AND TOTALLED IT OH MY GOD YOU RE LUCKY YOU DIDN T GET KILLED HUH? YEAH, YEAH PUSHED A FOUR OR BIG TRUCK UP ON THE CURB AND BUT I WAS ASLEEP SO MY BODY WAS RELAXED SO YEAH PEOPLE WHO ARE INTOXICATED USUALLY DON T GET HURT UNLESS THEY GET KILLED. UM HUM AH SO THE STORY IS THAT YOU DOUBLE DATED WITH HER AND THIS JOSH GUY WAS THERE WITH RIGHT, AND THEN AFTER THAT WELL THEY SHOWED SUPPOSEDLY THEY SHOWED UP AFTERWARDS BUT I V

33 DON T I JUST DON T REMEMBER. I REMEMBER THERE BEING ANOTHER GIRL THERE FOR MAYBE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO BUT I DON T REALLY REMEMBER YEAH AND THEN YOU HAD A COVERSA, WELL THEY RE SAYING OR YOU RE SAYING OR SOMEBODY EVERYBODY S SAYING YOU WERE AT WITH HER THAT SHE WAS IN MY CAR WITH ME AND THEN YOU VE, YOU VE HAD SOME DISCUSSION INBETWEEN HOW, WHERE, WHERE S THE INFORMATION ABOUT HIM DOING BAD THINGS TO HIS WIFE AND THAT? I DON T KNOW HONESTLY I WELL, WELL I THINK EITHER, EITHER THE OFFICERS THINK OR SOMEBODY THAT S WHAT THE OFFICERS THINK OR SOMEONE HAS TOLD THEM I THINK TOLD THEM THAT YOU HAD, HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER ABOUT THAT IS THAT RIGHT? I THINK TOLD THE OFFICERS THAT THE OFFICERS TOLD ME THAT AND THERE WAS SOME MENTION OF A LETTER I SENT TO BUT I VE NEVER WRITTEN THAT JACK ASS A LETTER EVER YEAH, I DON T ANYTHING ABOUT A LETTER BUT I KNOW I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH HER WHAT YOU GUYS DISCUSSED, IF YOU DICUSSED IT AT THE THEN THAT S FINE TO, IF YOU DISCUSSED IT AT THEN THAT S FINE TO, WE JUST GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE IT WAS I DON T REMEMBER V

34 OR IF IT WAS SOME WHERE ON THE PHONE OR IF IT WAS NEVER I DON T KNOW I HONESTLY DON T KNOW AT THIS POINT IN TIME YEAH WELL THAT S, THAT S THE THING IS THAT IF YOU GOT A FEW INDEPENDENT SOURCES LIKE DIFFERENT PEOPLE THERE AT THESE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS ALL PROVIDING THE SAME AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IT S PROBABLY TRUE RIGHT? UM HUM AND AH WELL I M TRYING TO REMEMBER IT I DON T KNOW AND THAT S WHAT WE OUGHT TO MAKE SURE IS THAT YOU, IF YOU LEGITIMATELY CAN T REMEMBER THEN THAT S FINE THEN THAT S KIND OF STUFF WE RE GONNA ASK YOU IS IF YOUR JUST WITH HOLDING THAT INFORMATION OR IF YOU LEGITIMATELY DON T REMEMBER IT YEAH BECAUSE AS TIME GOES ON WE USUALLY ALWAYS REMEMBER MORE AND MORE AND MORE ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR GETTING ALL THESE INTERVIEWS AND TALKING TO PEOPLE YEAH I KNOW YEAH THESE LITTLE CUES AND THINGS LIKE DO YOU REMEMBER WEARING THIS, OR DO YOU REMEMBER WEARING HIGH HEELS OR LIKE RIGHT OR TO LOOK IN YOUR CLOSEST AND BE LIKE OH MY GOD I WAS WEARING THAT SHIRT THAT DAY YEAH YOU KNOW OR SEE A PICTURE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OKAY SO YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS WHY, WHY YOU RE HERE RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE THEY HAVEN T GOTTEN THE INFORMATION OUT OF ME THAT V

35 THEY WANT AND SO THEIR HOPING THAT BY DOING THIS I LL BE TRUTHFUL OR FIND A REASON I DON T, I DON T KNOW I M HERE BECAUSE I DON T THINK THEY THINK THAT I M TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH, WHICH WHY WOULD I GO OFF AND TELL THEM EVERYTHING I VE TOLD THEM AND THEN WITH HOLD STUPID LITTLE INFORMATION ABOUT WELL THERE S A WHOLE BUNCH OF REASONS WHY I MEAN YOU COULD HAVE HAD SOME TYPE OF CONNECTION OR ASSOCIATION WITH AND THAT YOU RE TRYING TO PROTECT HER PEOPLE DO THAT ALL THE TIME OH I DON T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ANY MORE YEAH THEY VE ALL SCREWED ME OVER AND AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT IF YOU RE TRYING TO MAKE A CLEAN SLATE SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE LIKE I JUST WANT TO DISMISS THAT WHOLE THING I DON T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT FORMER LIFE EXACTLY AND SO IT S LIKE I STARTED TRYING TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS LIFE TO HELP THEM FIND AND I VE GOTTEN FUCKED OFF ALREADY SO IT JUST KIND A SUCKS YEAH AND THAT BUT THAT S THE THING THOUGH THIS, THIS IS ONLY A BIKE THEFT CASE IT S NOT JUST GONNA GO AWAY OH I KNOW SO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YEAH AND MY INCLINATION IN TALKING TO YOU HERE IS THAT YOU PROBABLY KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN YOU VE SAID BUT THE REASON THAT YOU THAT YOU RE BEING HESITANT IS BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION V

36 I DON T GIVE A CRAP PLUS SO IF YOU WANT TO FIND ANYBODY I KNOW TONS OF PEOPLE ON THE RUN AND I KNOW RIGHT WHERE THEY ARE AT (LAUGH, LAUGH) I CAN TELL YOU WHERE EVERY MOTHER FUCKER IS RIGHT NOW WELL AFTER WE AH FIGURE THIS GET DOWN AFTER WE FIGURE THIS ONE OUT THEN MAYBE WE LL BE INTERESTED IN THAT BUT I MEAN IT S JUST RIDICULOUS BECAUSE NAW SERIOUSLY SHE DIDN T REALLY EVEN COMMIT A CRIME I MEAN SHE JUST KNOWS SOMEBODY THAT DID IT YEAH YOU KNOW I MEAN YOU GUYS ARE ALL WITNESSES SO THERE S I KNOW AND THAT S WHY ON OUR, ON OUR END OF IT THERE S REALLY NO REASON TO WITH HOLD INFORMATION EXACTLY I AGREE CUZ YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE DO BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALTERNATIVE MOTIVES AND THEIR ALL SKETCHED OUT AND FREAKIN CREEPED OUT THAT OH THEIR GONNA TURN SOMEBODY AGAINST ME OR ZUH, ZUH, ZUH BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS I M JUST KIDDING ANY WAY YOU WILL BASICALLY BE REMOVED FROM THIS CASE ONCE WE CAN PROVE THAT LINK AND I WOULD BE REWARDED FOR IT EVEN I THINK, I THINK MARSHALL DUDES OR WHOEVER WOULD BE LIKE YES PROBATION OFFICER SHE DID A GREAT JOB DAH, DAH, DAH SO I M THINKING I D LIKE TO FIND THIS STUPID V

37 BITCH YEAH STRINGING THINGS ALONG YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN SO AND THAT S WHY THAT S WHAT WE RE HERE TO TRY TO CLARIFY WHAT EXACTLY YOU KNOW AND WHAT YOU DON T I WISH I KNEW A LOT MORE THAN I DID SO OKAY SO WE RE WELL LET S GET TWO QUESTIONS OBVIOUSLY IS ONE OF THE MAIN QUESTIONS THAT WE NEED TO ASK. DO YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW THE PERSON, DO YOU KNOW THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS (LAUGH, LAUGH) YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OH GOD SOMETHING LIKE THAT I WISH WE VE GOT TO GET SOMETHING YOU RE GONNA PASS HERE BECAUSE THIS MACHINE IS GONNA TELL ME REGARDLESS OF WHAT IF, IF IF I M MORE THAN ACQUANITANCES WITH OR LIKE FRIENDS WITH I MEAN SOMETHING LIKE THAT I MEAN I M SURE I MET A GIRL NAMED IN MY TWO OR THREE YEARS OR METH USE I MEAN MAYBE NOT BUT I DON T, I DON T KNOW THIS THEIR TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW SO WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU REFER TO IF SOMEBODY ASKED YOU ABOUT WHAT, WHAT IT IS THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT? WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR MAIN QUESTIONS THEY HAVE FOR YOU ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH? IF I M CLOSE TO HER I GUESS OR IF I KNOW HER WHEREABOUTS, IF I KNOW TALKING TO HER, IF I KNOW HER FROM BEING ANY PLACE I MEAN ALL THOSE OBVIOUSLY WOULD BE LEGIT BUT IF YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER ABOUT SPECIFICALLY THIS CASE YOU THINK V

38 THAT WOULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW IF YOU HAD THAT DISCUSSION YES DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT SOUNDS GREAT I MEAN CUZ REALLY YOU PROBABLY KNOW ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WHAT EXACTLY AROUND ABOUT MY YEARS OF BEING (INAUDIBLE) OKAY SO WE CAN ESTABLISH THAT YOU KNOW, YOU ARE SAYING YOU DON T KNOW WHERE SHE S AT WHICH THAT S, THAT S FINE SO I THINK WE RE KIND A NARROWING THIS DOWN TO I HAVEN T HAD CONTACT WITH HER IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO, HOW S THAT REALLY BAD? WELL LET S SEE WELL IF YOU HAD DISCUSSED THE CASE ABOUT THE GUY AND HIS WIFE IT HAD TO OF BEEN IN THE LAST YEAR OKAY SO THEN UM SO THAT WOULD BE NO WELL I DON T KNOW (LAUGH, LAUGH) THAT S WHAT I M ASKING YOU OHHHHH OHHHH THAT S WHY WE DO THIS, THIS AH TOGETHER TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HERE WHAT S THE BEST THING WOULD BE IS ALL WE WANT IS THE TRUTH AND TO MOVE ON (LAUGH, LAUGH) OH MY GOSH I KNOW ME TO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UMMM THAT S AN INTERESTING LAST NAME I DON T THINK I VE NOT HEARD ANYBODY WITH THAT LAST NAME WE RE THE ONLY ONES IN UTAH ME BEING HERE. HAVE I HAD ANY INDEPTH CONVERSATIONS WITH LAST YEAR WELL THAT S A LOT OF DIFFERENT QUESTIONS AND MORE REALLY V

39 I KNOW OKAY BUT I MEAN BASICALLY IF I JUST ASK YOU IF YOU HAVE DISCUSSED THIS CASE WITH IS IT GONNA BE A YES OR NO? IT WILL BE A NO THAT S WHAT YOUR, THAT S WHAT YOUR ANSWER WILL BE ON THE TEST OKAY, CUZ I MEAN WE CAN FORMULATE A QUESTION SIMILAR TO THAT BASICALLY CUZ THAT S I MEAN WE GET THROUGH EVERYTHING YOU KNOW WE JUST NEED TO KNOW IF YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER, IF YOU KNOW THIS INFORMATION THAT SHE PASSED ONTO YOU OR WHATEVER ALRIGHT? (SHE YAWNS) I JUST GOT REALLY TIRED ALL OF A SUDDEN ALRIGHT BASICALLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS WE LL WRITE THESE QUESTIONS OUT I M GONNA GO OVER EVERY QUESTION WITH YOU AND THEN AH WE LL HAVE A LITTLE, WE LL HAVE A LITTLE MINUTE TO AH LIKE THE LAST MINUTE IF THERE S IF I HAVE A QUESTION OKAY ANYTHING YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT I MEAN BEFORE WE ACTUALLY START THE TEST SO OKAY I M GONNA GO THROUGH THESE AND LIKE I SAID IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS JUST ASK ME OKAY, CUZ SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS WHAT THIS IS WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR LIES LOOK LIKE UM HUM SO I WILL ASK YOU SOME OF THE DUMBEST QUESTIONS YOU VE EVER HEARD AND I LL READ THEM ALL TO YA LIKE WHAT COLORS THE WALL, OKAY LIKE DO I HAVE A WATCH ON, HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN OVER THE SPEED LIMIT OF COURSE YOU HAVE UM HUM V

40 SO WE RE GONNA HAVE YOU LIE TO THAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE WANT TO SEE WHAT YOUR LIE LOOKS LIKE OKAY THE BETTER LIE YOU HAVE ON THE QUESTIONS THAT DON T MATTER YOU KNOW IT WILL HELP YOU OUT WHEN IT COMES TO BEING YOUR TRUTH TELLING ABILITY ON THE FACTUAL CASE OKAY YOU SEE WHAT I M SAYING? UM HUM OKAY SO THAT WALL IS NOT BLACK SO I WANT YOU TO LIE ON THAT QUESTION SO I M GONNA ASK YA IS THE COLOR OF THE WALL BLACK YOU SAY YEAH YES OKAY MOST OF THE DAY IS THURSDAY I GUESS THOUGH THURSDAY THE 30 TH (SHE YAWNS) IN SEPTEMBER.. (HE S WHISTLING) OKAY SO WE RE NOT GONNA DO THE DO YOU KNOW OR ARE YA JUST GONNA SAY YES I KNOW AND THEN MOVE ON, OR WE GONNA WE GONNA DO THE DO YOU KNOW? I DON T KNOW CUZ I REALLY HONESTLY IF YOU ASK ME DO I KNOW I WOULD SAY NO AND I WOULD PASS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? CUZ I DON T KNOW ABOUT IF I KNEW I WOULD KNOW WHAT COLOR OF HAIR SHE HAS, WHAT D SHE LOOK LIKE, WHAT SHE IF SHE HAD BAD TEETH, IF SHE WAS SHORT IF SHE WAS TALL, IF SHE HAD BIG BOOBS, NO BOOBS, WHATEVER BOOBS YEAH, YOU DON T REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT HER FROM THAT DAY? NOOOO, NO OKAY SO BASICALLY WE VE, WE VE HAD THIS LENGHY DISCUSSION ABOUT SO THE FIRST QUESTION WHAT I LL JUST BE IS YOU KNOW THE WE RE TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON THAT WAS V

41 WITH YOU AT, THE PERSON WHO APPARENTLY WITH YA AT OR WAS AT WHEN YOU GUYS WERE THERE THIS SUMMER RIGHT? YEAH I GUESS THAT WILL BE YES SO BASICALLY I WILL JUST ASK YOU DO YOU KNOW, IS THAT EASY ENOUGH WHAT S THAT FOUR WORDS AND YOU RE ANSWER WILL BE YES OR NO? I GUESS YES I DON T I WANT TO SAY NO BECAUSE IT S THE TRUTHFUL LIKE IF YOU HAD A LINE-UP OF AND THEY ARE ALL I D BE LIKE WELL AH THE THING THAT DOESN T IT YOU RE, YOU RE DESCRIPTION THERE DOESN T INCLUDE THAT YOU COULD HAVE HAD A PHONE RELATIONSHIP THAT YOU HAD SPOKEN ON THE PHONE AND NEVER SEEN THIS CHICK EVER SINCE, OR EVER SINCE YEAH I VE NEVER SEEN HER SINCE THOSE PLACES EVER AND THAT S, THAT S WHAT I MEAN OR TALKED TO HER OR ANYTHING, OR HAD A TEXT FROM HER, OR HAD ANY KIND OF INTERACTION AT ALL WITH HER OKAY THAT S WHAT I M SAYING THAT S THE TRUTH WHEN YOU RE, WHEN YOU RE EXPLAINING THAT YOU DON T KNOW WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE THAT S POSSIBLE, THAT S WHY THAT QUESTION WE LL JUST SAY DO YOU KNOW, LIKE IS THAT, THAT MEANS DO YOU KNOW HER FROM ING HER, DO YOU KNOW HER FROM FACEBOOKING HER NO I DON T DO YOU KNOW HER FROM TWITTING, TWITTERING HER? NOPE BASICALLY DO YOU KNOW HER AT ALL? V

42 NOPE OKAY SO THAT, THAT S WHAT THAT QUESTION WILL BE OKAY OKAY AND THEN WE LL LIKE ONE MORE TO BEFORE WE GO ON OKAY WHAT IS THIS SEPTEMBER, I GUESS TODAY S THE LAST DAY OF SEPTEMBER ISN T IT (LAUGH) YEAH.DO I WISH IT WAS SUMMER YES SO WHAT, WHAT DO YOU REFER TO THIS CASE AS LIKE WHAT WE RE DOING HERE, WHEN PEOPLE ASK YOU ABOUT IT WHAT DO THEY ASK YOU ABOUT IT? UM. WHAT DO I REFER TO THE CASE, UM. MOST PEOPLE DON T ASK ME ABOUT IT I TRY TO AVOID IT YEAH YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WELL WHAT DO YOU DO LIKE WHEN I D REPORT IT TO YOU IF ANYBODY ASKS UM WHAT IF YOU RE TALKING TO YOUR MOM OR SOMEBODY THAT LIKE SOMEBODY YOU TRUST OR THE CASE WITH THE MARSHALLS MY MOM CALLS IT THAT S WHAT YOU CALL IT OR YOUR MOM? THAT S WHAT MY MOM CALLS IT WHAT DO YOU CALL IT THOUGH I MEAN YOU GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU REFER TO IT AS? UM PROBABLY NOT THE MARSHALLS I DON T KNOW FOR SURE, CUZ THEY TOLD ME NOT TO DO, NOT TO BE IN THE MAIN (INAUDIBLE) SAY WHATEVER YEAH AND THAT S FINE TO ME I LL JUST ASK YOU WHERE EVER YOU NORMALLY USE IT V