2 PAGE. 3 MR NIKOLAI GLUSHKOV (sworn) Questions by MR TAM...1

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1 1 INDEX 2 PAGE 3 MR NIKOLAI GLUSHKOV (sworn) Questions by MR TAM DETECTIVE INSPECTOR CRAIG MASCALL...56 (resumed) 6 Questions by MR O'CONNOR MR YARAGI ABDUL (affirmed) Questions by MR TAM MR YURI PRIKAZCHIKOV (sworn) Questions by MR TAM DETECTIVE INSPECTOR CRAIG MASCALL (resumed) 13 Questions by MR O'CONNOR MS JULIA COLE (statement read) MS EMMA SCHOFIELD (statement read) MR NICHOLAS BAXTER (statement read) Friday, 27 February (10.00 am) 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr Tam. 20 MR TAM: May it please you, sir, today we have evidence 21 concerning the latter part of 1 November and then going 22 on into events after that. 23 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. 24 MR TAM: Sir, the first witness today is Mr Glushkov. 25 Mr Glushkov, would you like to take the oath, please. 1

2 1 MR NIKOLAI GLUSHKOV (sworn) 2 Questions by MR TAM 3 MR TAM: Could the interpreter been sworn? 4 THE CHAIRMAN: She was sworn at an earlier stage. 5 MR TAM: I'm grateful. Thank you, please take a seat. 6 Mr Glushkov, can I first ask you to give your full 7 name, please? 8 A. My name is Nikolai Alexeyevich Glushkov. 9 Q. It's right that you're of Russian origin? 10 A. I'm Russian. 11 Q. But you've now lived in the UK for a number of years? 12 A. For almost nine years now. 13 Q. You're happy to give your evidence in English today? 14 A. By all means. 15 Q. But we have Madam Interpreter with us because there are 16 some documents that are in Russian which we might need 17 to look at and which we might not yet have translations 18 for. Is that right? 19 A. Yes, that's it. 20 Q. Mr Glushkov, I would like to start, please, by asking 21 you about a meeting which you say happened on 22 1 November 2006 which is the day on which it looks like 23 Mr Litvinenko was poisoned. You know the day that we're 24 talking about? 25 A. Yes. 2

3 1 Q. I will come back later on to deal with your own 2 background and your relationships with all the people 3 involved, but I just want to concentrate on this meeting 4 to start off with. 5 I should ask you, do you have copies of your witness 6 statements before you? 7 A. Yes, by all means. 8 Q. The witness statements you gave to the police? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. There are two of them, aren't there? There was one 11 dated 26 July In fact, let me just help you with 12 where you'll find that. You'll see the heading at the 13 top on the statement that says "Witness statement", do 14 you see that? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Then it gives your name and then there's a horizontal 17 line, and then between the two horizontal lines there's 18 your signature on the left, I know it's a typed copy, 19 but you see that, and then on the right-hand side, is 20 there a date of 26 July 2011? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Then there's a second statement that you made, isn't 23 there; this one that was given to the Inquiry is of two 24 pages and on the second page you see your signature and 25 the date of 18 January 2015? 3

4 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Thank you. Now, the meeting that I want to ask you 3 about first you said was on 1 November 2006 at 4 Mr Berezovsky's office. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. That's in Down Street in Mayfair? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Was that an office that you were used to going to? 9 A. At that time, I was in the process of getting the asylum 10 problems sorted out, and there was to be some place to 11 sit and work, and I used this office almost on a daily 12 basis. 13 Q. Did you have your own space there? Did Mr Berezovsky A. A table, yes. 15 Q. So Mr Berezovsky allowed you a table of your own to work 16 on? 17 A. Yes, by all means, yes. 18 Q. You were there almost daily? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. On this day, you described to the police being at the 21 office and walking towards reception and bumping into 22 a man who was quite big. 23 A. It's true, because you see I didn't even recognise the 24 person because usually I saw all the daily people who 25 work there and who come there, and this was an unusual 4

5 1 person to me and I came and asked the secretary of 2 Boris Berezovsky who was that man, just out of the 3 curiosity. 4 Q. And who was it? 5 A. That was Mr Litvinenko, she explained to me. 6 Q. Had you met Mr Litvinenko before? 7 A. No, not personally. I saw TV clips with his interviews 8 with -- all the rest of it. Mass media reports on 9 Litvinenko, but frankly speaking, seeing person on TV 10 and seeing him alive are two different things, so that 11 I wouldn't recognise him at the beginning. 12 Q. Mr Litvinenko was in the habit of going to 13 Mr Berezovsky's office quite frequently. Did you know 14 that? 15 A. Maybe, but I didn't know that, but I met him only once. 16 Q. That was that day? 17 A. Yes, and mind you, I came only in July 2006 to the UK 18 actually. I had to run out of the country on 19 3 July 2006 asking for political asylum here in the UK, 20 and run, I mean exactly run, and the whole July 21 and August were dedicated to the solicitors, 22 Garson & Company, and I was very seldom in the office 23 itself. 24 But later when the work started being routine, I was 25 coming more often. 5

6 1 Q. On that day, did you only see Mr Litvinenko that one 2 time? 3 A. Only once. 4 Q. You said to the police that you were on the verge of 5 leaving the office to go to an appointment when 6 Boris Berezovsky called you into his office. 7 A. Indeed. 8 Q. You remember that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And asked you -- well, you tell us, what was it or why 11 was it that he asked you to go into his office? 12 A. He said that he had a surprise for me, some sort of 13 surprise for me, and I did go into the office, and it 14 was a real surprise for me, an unpleasant surprise for 15 me, because I saw Andrei Lugovoy. 16 After certain conversation with Andrei Lugovoy, 17 I didn't see him in Russia at all. If you have 18 questions I can tell you about that. 19 But it was very unpleasant surprise for me. We 20 shook hands. Boris was very happy somehow about such 21 a meeting. I was not happy. And he asked me to join 22 them for a drink, which I definitely refused, but 23 although I offered that I can help them with the choice 24 of the drink, actually, I know well the wines that Boris 25 liked at that time, and I knew my favourite wines and 6

7 1 I knew that they are stocked in his -- they were stocked 2 in his fridge, and that was -- I know even exactly the 3 wine that I offered them, that was Pinot Grigio 4 Santa Margherita, that's my favourite wine, and -- 5 favourite Italian wine, and I opened the bottle, Mila 6 helped me with the bottle, I opened the bottle, saw them 7 with the two glasses, and I left immediately. 8 Q. Mila you just mentioned, who is Mila? 9 A. Mila is a secretary of Boris. There were two 10 secretaries at that time. Mila was sitting in the back 11 room, and Yelena was sitting at the front. So Mila 12 was -- there were... there is a reception, and then 13 there is a back secretary room, so I -- Mila was sitting 14 there, she was helping me with this. 15 Actually, I remember even where each person was 16 sitting. I remember where I met -- bumped into 17 Litvinenko, it was just in the corridor leading to the 18 office of Mr Dubov, I was just coming from the 19 reception, I bumped him right there, at the corner of 20 the kitchen, kitchenette that was there. 21 Q. I will ask you about where everybody was sitting in 22 a moment, but was it Mila who told you that was 23 Mr Litvinenko? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Now, the wine that you got, do I understand you 7

8 1 correctly that that was wine that was already in the 2 office? 3 A. Yes, in the office and in the fridge. 4 Q. Okay, so it wasn't wine that you had brought there that 5 day? 6 A. No, no, no. 7 Q. If it was in the fridge, was it already cold? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Because there are two things that we have heard about 10 this meeting. One of them is that you had brought the 11 wine because you thought that it might be a good wine 12 for Boris to have on his plane. 13 A. No, there were two fridges -- I'll make it clear. Boris 14 asked me, because I know the wines, and he asked me 15 whether I can help him with the choice of wines to have 16 him -- to have them on his plane, and I did, I ordered 17 the wine for him, and there was a different fridge that 18 was standing in the same room where I had a table. It 19 was locked, it was kept under the lock, and there was 20 a fridge in the reception space of Boris, Pinot Grigio 21 Santa Margherita was not the wine to be served on the 22 plane, it was a simple wine, but very nice wine, that 23 could be served on this day. 24 Q. In which of the fridges was it? 25 A. In the one at the reception. 8

9 1 Q. The one -- the fridge that was in your room with the 2 lock on it -- 3 A. Didn't contain Pinot Grigio Santa Margherita. 4 Q. Okay, so what was in that fridge? 5 A. Different sorts of wines. I made a selection, red and 6 white wines, but good wines. 7 Q. One of the other things that's been said about this 8 meeting is that you made some comment about it being 9 better to have warm good wine than cold bad wine, or 10 something to that effect. 11 A. It could be, but Pinot Grigio Santa Margherita was from 12 the fridge in the reception. I'm telling you my 13 recollections of the things. 14 Q. Yes, of course, and that's what we're asking for, to see 15 what you can tell us about this. 16 Can I please have up on the screen INQ You 17 see there there's a plan of two rooms, room 20 and room Do you have that in front of you? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Can I have this rotated clockwise, please, and enlarge 21 the top half of it, the room A. Yes. 23 Q. This is a plan which I think was drawn by a police 24 officer. Do you recognise the layout of this office? 25 A. Yes, the office of Mr Berezovsky. 9

10 1 Q. That's Mr Berezovsky's office, and so we see the desk 2 near the top left-hand corner there. That's 3 Mr Berezovsky's desk. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And -- 6 A. Although, correctly speaking, it was more or less in the 7 centre. 8 Q. More or less in the centre, okay. There's a circle with 9 what looks like "C3" behind it, was that his chair on 10 that side of the desk? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Then C1 and C2, those two circles in the middle there, 13 were they two more chairs? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Were they chairs that faced the desk? 16 A. Yes, yes, by all means. 17 Q. And so A. Because the -- it's -- it's the scheme but not the 19 distance-wise and the location-wise. Location-wise, the 20 desk was located to the right, right in the centre, more 21 or less in the centre, not right, more or less in the 22 centre of the room. Two chairs were standing opposite 23 the desk, so they would be just symmetrically somewhere 24 there, and there was a sofa with a table in -- two sofas 25 with a table in between. 10

11 1 Q. Okay. So the way you remember where the desk was, C1 2 and C2, those two chairs would have been facing the 3 desk? 4 A. Yes, yes. 5 Q. Where -- 6 A. So if you move the desk a little bit further to the 7 centre, that's exactly would be the case. 8 Q. So if Mr Berezovsky was sitting in C3, he would be 9 facing his visitors in C1 and C2. 10 A. Yes, exactly. 11 Q. The two sofas, we have sofa 1 on the right-hand side, 12 sofa 2 on the left-hand side. Can you remember -- first 13 of all, when you went into the room, were Mr Berezovsky 14 and Mr Lugovoy already sitting down? 15 A. Mr Lugovoy was definitely in sofa Q. So he was on sofa 1 and where was Mr Berezovsky? 17 A. In sofa Q. Did you yourself actually sit down for this? 19 A. No, never. 20 Q. You took the wine into them? 21 A. No, I just said hello, and I never even sat down there, 22 I just said hello, brought the wine and left. 23 Q. Can we please have up INQ If we can enlarge the 24 top half of that again, please, thank you. 25 Now, this is a plan that was drawn by Mr Berezovsky 11

12 1 of the office, and you see at the top there, there's 2 three circles and three sides of the desk? 3 A. It looks like exactly like it was. 4 Q. So that is more how you remember it, is it? 5 A. Exactly, and there is an entrance to the right which 6 goes to the toilet and the restaurant. 7 Q. Then there's a fatter rectangle in the middle and then 8 two narrower rectangles either side, which I think must 9 be the sofas? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. On the left-hand side, I think that's Mr Berezovsky's 12 signature on the left-hand side, isn't it, on the 13 left-hand sofa? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That was marking where he was sitting? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So you agree on that? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Thank you. 20 A. So I confirm this better than the other one. 21 Q. Yes, good, thank you. I think you told the police that 22 you had looked in your diary for 1 November 2006, but 23 you couldn't find anything marked in there for that day? 24 A. No, not for that -- you see I mark in the diary things 25 that I am planning to do, not that happened to me. That 12

13 1 is I don't -- I don't keep a diary of what I am doing. 2 I have it in here or just I put it into the form of 3 documents. But in the diary, usual diary, in computer 4 diary, in my hand diary, I have only events to happen. 5 This event was not planned. 6 Q. So if -- if you listen to this carefully -- if this 7 actually happened on a different day, you wouldn't have 8 written it into your diary on that day either? 9 A. No, no, it would never be -- because anything that was 10 not planned wouldn't be in the diary. 11 Q. Did the police ask you to check or did they check your 12 diary for 27 October, four days previously? 13 A. I don't think that they asked me for the diary. In 14 fact, I don't think that they were interested in the 15 diary at all. It was just a question and the police 16 officers explained to me on that day that they're 17 actually cleaning things up to finish the whole thing 18 because one of them was leaving and there were only two 19 out of the big team of the police officers, and they 20 were trying to tidy up matters. That's why I was being 21 talked to so late after the death of Mr Litvinenko. 22 Q. Can I please have up on the screen INQ We see 23 that this is a witness statement made by Mr Berezovsky. 24 Just below the second horizontal line A. Can you make it even larger, please? Is it possible to 13

14 1 increase it? 2 Q. Is that better? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Good. Do you see that he refers to a meeting on 5 1 November? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. He refers to seeing Mr Litvinenko and using the 8 photocopier? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Then towards the bottom of that page he refers to 11 Mr Lugovoy being in the office. 12 A. I haven't seen this. 13 Q. I know you haven't seen this before so I'm just asking 14 you to have a quick look at this. Do you see where he 15 refers to Mr Lugovoy? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Two-thirds of the way down the page? 18 A. It corresponds to my understanding, because the copy 19 room was exactly located somewhere after the place where 20 I met Litvinenko. 21 Q. I don't need to ask you about the details of this, but 22 can I go on to the next page, please, 372. If we can 23 just enlarge that text, thank you. Do you see about 24 five lines down he refers to you, Nikolai Glushkov? 25 A. Yes. 14

15 1 Q. And some wine? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And he asks the secretary to help you with the wine, do 4 you see that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. You don't need to see the detail of it. It is obvious 7 that Mr Berezovsky is talking about the same meeting, 8 isn't he? 9 A. You see it's Berezovsky who said it's better to have 10 a good warm wine than cold bad wine. It was not my 11 phrase. 12 Q. You're quite right. Do you remember him saying that? 13 A. No, no, because I know that I took out of the fridge 14 a bottle of Pinot Grigio Santa Margherita, it was cold. 15 Q. Sure. So we have that. Mr Berezovsky thinks it 16 happened on 1 November. Can we please have up 17 INQ I'll just show you what this is. You. 18 You see the heading of the -- do you see the 19 heading? This is the claim made by Mr Berezovsky 20 against Mr Terluk. 21 A. Mm-hmm. 22 Q. That's a legal case that you know something about, don't 23 you? 24 A. That's very interesting. 25 Q. This, you see, is a witness statement that Mr Lugovoy 15

16 1 made in the course of those proceedings. I just want to 2 show you something from inside this witness statement. 3 Can we please go to page 809? 4 A. I heard about this witness statement because -- 5 Q. Hang on a second, Mr Glushkov. It's INQ001809, please. 6 Can we have the bottom two-thirds, so from the 7 heading, "Meeting on October". This is 8 Mr Lugovoy's witness statement. He's talking about 9 a business trip and I think the heading says 25 to October, and in the middle of that second 11 paragraph -- sorry, in the middle of the first paragraph 12 there, 131, do you see that he says: 13 "... on 26 October, whilst I was at 14 Mr Patarkatsishvili's house in London, I received a call 15 from Mr Berezovsky who asked me to come by his offices. 16 "... when I arrived at his office, Mr Berezovsky 17 explained that a journalist from Kommersant Yelena Tregubova, had asked [for] personal protection." 19 Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. If you then go down to paragraph 134, Mr Lugovoy says: 22 "Our conversation was interrupted by 23 Nikolai Glushkov who came in briefly with two bottles of 24 white wine. He said to Mr Berezovsky that he tried this 25 new wine which was apparently very good and that they 16

17 1 should order more of it so that it will always be in the 2 plane." 3 Now, I don't need to ask you again about the plane, 4 but what Mr Lugovoy is here saying is that this meeting 5 took place on, it looks like, about 26 October. So not 6 1 November. 7 A. No, I remember, you see, there are things -- how 8 can I say. I don't remember the films, you can show me 9 the same film twice a week, you can -- I don't remember, 10 apart from few actors, the names of the actors. But 11 there are things, dates, events, balances, numbers, that 12 I remember all my life. If you can ask me in my night, 13 at night, what was the balance of AvtoVAZ in 1992, 14 I will answer you the question. 15 And this is one of those things, because it was 16 a very unpleasant meeting. I can tell you when the 17 meetings with Lugovoy took place in Moscow. I remember 18 where they were sitting, because they were also very 19 unpleasant meetings, and this was very unpleasant 20 meeting for me. So I did remember. 21 If -- I must definitely tell you quite openly that 22 if it were only for Alexander Litvinenko, maybe 23 I wouldn't remember because nothing was related to between me and Alexander. But a lot of negative 25 emotions were related between me and Lugovoy. 17

18 1 Q. Can I show you something else that Mr Lugovoy said about 2 this, just in relation to the date. 3 Can I have first of all INQ Again, if you look in the formal title there, you 5 see it's the same proceedings, and this is a second 6 witness statement that he made, and then if I can go on, 7 please, to INQ001886, please. 8 Can we have the first third of the page, thank you. 9 This is a transcript that Mr Lugovoy produced of a press 10 conference that he had on 31 May 2007, in fact a press 11 conference that he and Mr Kovtun had, do you see that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Then if we can go on within that, please, to page 896, 14 at the very top of the page -- in fact, sorry, for 15 context, please can we have the previous page, 895, the 16 very bottom of the page, the last paragraph there. 17 Mr Lugovoy here says he wants to add one more thing: 18 "I don't know if Berezovsky had a hand in the murder 19 of Politkovskaya..." 20 Then he refers to the possible preparation of 21 a provocation in relation to Yelena Tregubova, yes? 22 Then if we could go over to the next page, please, 23 top of the page, there's reference to her -- to 24 Devyatii Val -- that's Ninth Wave? 25 A. Devyatii Val. 18

19 1 Q. That was Mr Lugovoy's company providing protection for 2 her, yes? 3 Then if we can have the next paragraph, please. 4 This is what Mr Lugovoy says about the date of the 5 meeting: 6 "Berezovsky says all the time that we met 7 on October 31 on the eve of 1 November -- he is telling 8 out-and-out lies. We met on October 27. Firstly, 9 I thought he forgot -- it could happen, it is natural to 10 forget two, three, four days either way. However, I do 11 know that when you come to Berezovsky's office, 12 Down Street, 7, there is a security guard downstairs and 13 he keeps a log. Everybody is logged in diligently. 14 Therefore I am asking the British justice to examine 15 that log. If my name is not logged there on October 27, 16 then it says a lot. 17 "On October 31, I flew in with the family and was at 18 the hotel, did not leave the hotel that evening, there 19 are a lot of witnesses because we had dinner 20 together... Why is Berezovsky lying that we met on October? He is lying for the following reasons." 22 Then the next paragraph, please: 23 "On October 26, when I was in London, I received an 24 unexpected phone call, on my mobile, from Boris 25 Abramovich." 19

20 1 That's Mr Berezovsky. 2 "I must say that since the moment Berezovsky left 3 Russia he never in his life called me once, ever. He 4 never asked for anything. Suddenly he phones me, 5 knowing that I am in London. My question: how did he 6 know I was in London? He suggested that we should meet 7 at his office the following day. It was totally 8 unexpected. Because he did not call me himself for the 9 past seven years, and he never requested anything. 10 I come to his office on October 27, in the evening, 11 approximately between and The security guy 12 diligently enters my name in the log. There were loads 13 of witnesses to say I came to his office on that day the secretaries, aides, his partners who were there. 15 And Berezovsky and I had a conversation for about ten 16 minutes, either in his office, I don't remember, or in 17 the hall." 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So Mr Lugovoy there is very sure that it took place on October. 22 A. When previously he was very sure that it was -- took 23 place on the 26th. 24 Q. Well, yes, we've seen what he says about that, and we 25 will look at that, but there there's a very detailed 20

21 1 account of it being on 27 October. 2 Can I ask you this, first of all, between 4.30 and pm, would that be about the right sort of time of 4 day? 5 A. If you speak about the meeting on the 1st, it was 6 a little bit earlier, I would say before Q. Before 4.00? 8 A. Yes, because it was a business meeting that I had. 9 Q. Is it possible that you might have got the date of this 10 wrong, that it might actually have been 27 October? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Mr Kovtun wasn't with Mr Lugovoy at the time that you 13 saw him at that meeting, was he? 14 A. No. 15 Q. In fact, have you ever A. I've never met Mr Kovtun. 17 Q. You've never met Mr Kovtun at all, thank you. 18 A. Actually, there was Lugovoy and Berezovsky in the office 19 room. 20 Q. And that was it? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Thank you. Now I'd like to leave that meeting 23 and go back to talking about your own history and your 24 relationships with all the people involved in the case. 25 First of all, can I ask you yourself, you presumably 21

22 1 grew up in Russia? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You made a business career in Russia? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. I think that leading up to 1995, you had a position in 6 a company called AvtoVAZ? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Can you tell us, what was your last position at that 9 company? 10 A. It's first deputy general director in economics and 11 finance. 12 Q. Does that correspond to a particular position in 13 a Western company? 14 A. It's very difficult to say. It's the company located in 15 the city which lives out of this company. So in fact 16 I was responsible for the finance of the whole city. So 17 in a sense what I mean -- so, it's very difficult to but deputy general manager. 19 Q. You have a position in a company, it's a car 20 manufacturer, isn't it? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Why is it responsible for the finances of the city? 23 A. You see, it was the -- one of the biggest plants, 24 industrial plants, in the country, and just to say the 25 list, the number of employees that it had in Tolyatti, 22

23 1 and outside in the whole Russia, was 270,000, so it's 2 quite a large enterprise by all standards, and 3 therefore -- and there was not much else located in 4 Tolyatti that would bring the turnover of the company, 5 only of the company itself, the plant itself, was more 6 than USD 3.5 billion, which is something that the town 7 can be happy with. 8 Q. Okay, so it was a one-company town? 9 A. Yes, indeed. 10 Q. Okay, and the name of the company was AvtoVAZ. Can you 11 tell us, the VAZ, VAZ as we write it in Roman alphabet, 12 what does that stand for? 13 A. Volzhsky Avtomobilny Zavod, I will translate it. It's 14 the automobile factory that is located on Volga River. 15 Volga River, automobile, Zavod factory. 16 Q. And the Avto, what does that mean? 17 A. It's automobile. 18 Q. Okay. Then did the company -- sorry, did the cars -- it 19 was cars, wasn't it, that the company made? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did the cars have a brand name? 22 A. Yes, then known in the West as Lada cars. 23 Q. So basically this was a company making Lada cars? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. You left the company in the autumn of Can you 23

24 1 tell us which company did you go to then? 2 A. No, I didn't go anywhere, I left the company in March 3 due to the threats that I received from FSB services 4 supervising the plant because in those days all serious 5 enterprises had their own, as they called, kurator, 6 supervisors from FSB of high rank usually, it's -- on 7 AvtoVAZ, it was the rank of the colonel. In Aeroflot, 8 it was the rank of the general. But it was usually the 9 big people, and after that I left the plant and decided 10 to start up my own business. 11 Q. Before I get on to that, you said it was the FSB that 12 was threatening you. Wouldn't it have been still the 13 KGB back in that time? 14 A. Yes, it's KGB, as it was known before. Actually in fact 15 I'm calling them KGB even now. 16 Q. Yes, okay. So you started your own business. Did there 17 come -- well, sorry, tell us, what was that business A. I was consulting different companies on the -- it's 19 financial consulting. 20 Q. Did there come a time when you joined Aeroflot? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And when was that? 23 A. It was the beginning of Q. Now, by this time, you already knew Boris Berezovsky, 25 didn't you? 24

25 1 A. No, I knew him from 1989, I remember the first meeting 2 with Boris Berezovsky, just as today. 3 Q. Yes. How was it that you came to meet him? 4 A. I was working at the -- it would sound like abracadabra 5 to all present here. It was called VNIIPAS. It's 6 research institute for applied sciences. 7 In short, it was the channel of Soviet Union to the 8 West, communication channel through the West, all the 9 lines from Soviet Union to the West was -- were going 10 through VNIIPAS, you understand this? And, therefore, 11 there was all the equipment, including KGB equipment 12 installed there to keep this under strict control. And 13 I had a friend of mine who was also a friend of Boris, 14 at that time I was working in corporative -- you know, 15 just it's a private business, apart from working at 16 VNIIPAS, I was working also in private business, and 17 I was making feasibility studies for newly starting 18 joint ventures. 19 And that was my source of revenue, additional 20 revenue that I was getting for my family, and usually 21 I was preparing for the new starting joint ventures 22 feasible studies, and he said: look, I have a friend, 23 his name is Boris Berezovsky, he works at the 24 institute -- academic institute, and if you can help him 25 with the feasibility study, I would be really grateful. 25

26 1 Okay, I said. So he connected me with him, and I met 2 him near the institute of control, of the problems of 3 control sides, institute problem upravleniya, institute 4 of problems of management, let's put it this way. 5 And I remember this meeting, because it was very 6 funny, he came in his Lada car, it was raining heavily, 7 and he met me at the entrance, because the entrance to 8 the institute was quite well guarded and I couldn't 9 enter inside, so we were meeting outside and he asked me 10 to show me what I have prepared for him, because his 11 friend told me what he wanted. 12 So I had to lay all my documents on the boot of his 13 car where -- under the pouring rain, and he started 14 talking of what he was going to create, and I was so 15 fascinated, I said: don't say any more, I will create 16 you a company, I will register you a company, you will 17 have a company, let's meet again; and we met again, and 18 finally we decided we should join our efforts and I left 19 VNIIPAS and went to work with Boris Berezovsky. 20 Q. And the name of this company was? 21 A. LogoVAZ. 22 Q. What was the connection between LogoVAZ and AvtoVAZ? 23 A. 50 per cent of LogoVAZ was AvtoVAZ. 24 Q. Which owned which? 25 A. AvtoVAZ owned 50 per cent of LogoVAZ. 26

27 1 Q. Okay, and what did LogoVAZ do? 2 A. LogoVAZ started with small business, it's developing the 3 certification system of the -- certification standards 4 and certification problems for the consumer goods, and 5 finally, if -- consumer goods and high-tech goods as 6 well, and finally this system was accepted as system -- 7 state system, and we were supplying this system to 8 different consumers. After that, we decided we should 9 go further on, and we started with the retail business 10 of secondhand German cars, namely Mercedes. 11 And then we decided to move further on, and we 12 decided to start dealerships of main car manufacturers 13 of the world, of Europe in particular, in Russia, and we 14 were the first company that brought in 800 new Fiats, 15 that's unthought of by the standards of that time, the 16 number of cars that we brought was unheard of, and then 17 it was Mercedes, it was Volvo, and I was involved in 18 negotiating, signing contracts with them, et cetera, 19 et cetera. We were building trade centres, we were 20 building technical service centres, we were building the 21 storage stock system of the cars, because it was 22 a difficult time, our storage facilities were exploded, 23 and it was well published in the media. 24 Q. When you say exploded, do you mean attacked and blown A. The bombs were thrown into the facilities. 27

28 1 Q. The way you describe it, you sound very proud of what 2 you and Mr Berezovsky built up. 3 A. By all means. We started what is being called at the 4 moment a civilised dealership system in foreign-made 5 cars in Russia. 6 Q. You must have been working very closely indeed with him 7 to build up a business like that? 8 A. By all means. 9 Q. Was it a problem for you to be building up a business 10 importing and selling Western cars, while at the same 11 time working for AvtoVAZ which was making Russian Ladas? 12 A. Just a second. At that time, I got acquainted with 13 Vladimir Kadanikov who was a close friend of Boris, 14 Vladimir Kadanikov was a general director of AvtoVAZ, 15 and AvtoVAZ was standing still, the assembly line was 16 stopped, and the problem was very simple, but you see 17 because it was new economy, and AvtoVAZ was built in the 18 old environment, in the Soviet Union environment. 19 Even this small amount, with this huge turnover of 20 AvtoVAZ, they couldn't manage. It was USD 30 million. 21 LogoVAZ managed to get the loan for USD 30 million, 22 we got the loan, and we made a gift to AvtoVAZ to start 23 the assembly line. It was launched. 24 Q. So if I've understood that correctly, you and 25 Mr Berezovsky, through LogoVAZ, found and gave some 28

29 1 money to AvtoVAZ so that AvtoVAZ could restart its 2 production, is that right? 3 A. Exactly, exactly, and that's when Mr Kadanikov invited 4 me, and I stopped working with LogoVAZ and went to work 5 for AvtoVAZ. 6 Q. Right. Did you have other business ventures with 7 Mr Berezovsky? 8 A. No, that's the main -- I mean, I don't mean the 9 technical structure of arranging businesses, but the 10 business was only this. 11 Q. In the course of this time, had you also met Mr Lugovoy 12 during this period? 13 A. You see, that was the question that was asked and indeed 14 I met him a few times in the LogoVAZ club, we had 15 a company club, very prestigious, many people were 16 assembling there, quite a number of them, and he was 17 visiting there. I knew that he was working for Boris 18 and Badri. 19 Speaking frankly, I never was closely acquainted 20 with him. In fact even now I am not closely acquainted 21 with Andrei Lugovoy. I cannot consider being closely 22 acquainted with him. We were just meeting each other in 23 passing. I saw the person, I can remember the face, 24 that was it, perhaps. 25 Q. He comes back into the story at a later point, and I'll 29

30 1 come back to him, but I want to go on, please, to what 2 happened while you were at Aeroflot. Is it right that 3 you'd been there for about four years or so when you 4 were arrested? 5 A. No, I was there only for two years. I came at the 6 request of Shaposhnikov and I said I will not work more 7 than two years and I left exactly in two years' time. 8 Q. When you were arrested you'd already left Aeroflot for 9 about two years? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you tell us what it was that you were said to have 12 done -- I know you say that you didn't do it, but what 13 was alleged against you that led to your arrest? 14 A. It's fraud, money laundering of which I was acquitted, 15 and non-repatriation of hard currency from abroad. 16 Q. And what was the factual basis of the allegation against 17 you? 18 A. It's funny because I'm going through the same procedure 19 now in the same High Court with the claims of Aeroflot 20 against me, two claims, against me, and 21 Boris Berezovsky, which both of them which are false, 22 but the thing is that I was accused of embezzlement of 23 USD 3 million for personal use. No one could prove any 24 personal use, and the first court hearing in 2004 failed 25 to do that. 30

31 1 In 2011, when Boris Berezovsky was in High Court 2 with the claim against Roman Abramovich, 3 Roman Abramovich admitted that he was the owner of the 4 company that had the accounts in the UK, in Barclays 5 Bank, Laren Trading Limited, and that's exactly the 6 company to which this money went. 7 I showed this to the court in my days that the money 8 went to company Laren Trading, but to the question of 9 Mr Sheremetyev, the judge, can I prove that I'm not the 10 beneficial owner of Laren Trading? I failed to answer 11 this question. Definitely I couldn't prove. I couldn't 12 prove that. 13 Q. From what you're saying it sounds like money -- that the 14 allegation was that money that belonged to Aeroflot was 15 paid into bank accounts overseas and that you had an 16 interest in those bank accounts and used the money 17 yourself, is that the allegation? 18 A. That's the allegation, yes. To which I will never agree 19 and I do not agree with this now. 20 Q. You said you were acquitted of those charges by the 21 court in 2004? 22 A. 4, yes, but in 2000, but then it was returned back for 23 reconsideration on the -- you know that we have 24 a constitution in Russia, and in accordance with 25 article 49 of this constitution we have presumption of 31

32 1 innocence, that the person cannot be considered guilty 2 unless the court decides so. 3 The court, Moscow city court, returned back this 4 case for reconsideration on the grounds that the 5 prosecutors couldn't prove the guilt of the accused and 6 the accused couldn't prove their innocence. It's the 7 exact wording, black on white, which is ridiculous in 8 itself, and it was returned for a trial, re-trial was 9 done under great pressure from FSB, I can explain, but 10 this is not about me, it's about Q. What I'm trying to do is to see the context of the 12 events that took place in 2000/ I just want to ask you one more question about those 14 accounts. 15 You say that Mr Abramovich was the account holder of 16 some of the accounts? 17 A. Of the company Laren Trading, no, no. But he was the 18 shareholder of Aeroflot for 26 per cent for some years, 19 yes. 20 Q. Was Mr Berezovsky in any way concerned in these overseas 21 accounts to which the money was alleged to have been 22 paid? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. In which country was that? 25 A. It was Switzerland and he was the beneficial owner of 32

33 1 two companies and (inaudible) and he confirmed this 2 during these hearings versus Abramovich. 3 Q. You were arrested I think in late 2000, is that right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You were in effect detained in prison until 6 about March 2004? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Except that there were times when you were in hospital, 9 is that right? 10 A. Yes, but this is not -- this is also I was in the 11 hospital in the presence of KGB officers. 12 Q. Yes, so obviously you were escorted if you were in 13 hospital, but you weren't in the prison all the time. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. When you were in prison, which prison was it? 16 A. Lefortovo. 17 Q. In April of 2001, was it additionally alleged that you 18 had attempted to escape? Mr Glushkov, I just want to 19 see what the allegations are. Was it alleged that you 20 attempted to escape? 21 A. You see, I've gone through all these questions with Home 22 Office representatives when I was applying for political 23 asylum. 24 Q. Mr Glushkov A. I will answer your question. It was alleged like that, 33

34 1 but you see the thing is that if I wanted to escape, 2 like now, like in 2006, I escape and no one knew about 3 that. 4 Q. We're not concerned with whether or not you are guilty 5 of that, but I want to set the scene so we can 6 understand the context of the things that happened. 7 A. Sorry, may I have a glass of water? 8 Q. Yes, please do. It's right, isn't it, that a couple of 9 your assistants were also accused of helping you in this 10 attempt to escape, is that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Can you give us their names? 13 A. Yes, Skoropupov and Providukhin. 14 Q. Who else was alleged to have helped you in this attempt 15 to escape? 16 A. Actually, Lugovoy was announced as being the organiser 17 of the whole thing on behalf of Patarkatsishvili. 18 Q. As a result, were your assistants arrested? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Was Mr Patarkatsishvili arrested? 21 A. No, but he -- there was issued an order of his arrest 22 and the federal order for search of his existence. 23 Q. Because at that time he was already living outside 24 Russia? 25 A. Yes. 34

35 1 Q. Was Mr Lugovoy arrested? 2 A. No, he was arrested -- so everyone was arrested 3 in April in 2011, actually. 4 Q. Including Mr Lugovoy? 5 A. No, Mr Lugovoy was arrested, allegedly, on 28 June. 6 Q. Let's come back to that. So your assistants were 7 arrested on 11 or 12 April? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Were they kept in prison after their arrest? 10 A. By all means. 11 Q. Which prison was that? 12 A. Lefortovo. 13 Q. Then it was only at that later date, you say, that 14 Mr Lugovoy was arrested on 28 June? 15 A. No, I'm not saying, I said allegedly was arrested. 16 Q. Well, it's right, isn't it, you provided the Inquiry 17 with some documents about Mr Lugovoy at that time of 18 events. Can we please have up first INQ It's 19 not a very good copy because it's got the large black 20 strip on the right-hand side, but is this right, that 21 this is a document which you have supplied to 22 the Inquiry? 23 A. Yes, by all means. 24 Q. Is this the best copy that you've got of it? 25 A. Yes, because -- but I can tell you exactly the volume of 35

36 1 the -- the file -- the number of the file and the number 2 of the page on which it is located in the materials of 3 the criminal case in Savyolovsky court where I was 4 tried. 5 Q. If we need that, we'll ask you for that. But we have 6 got a -- well, actually, before we do that, is it right 7 that under the heading, you see there's a heading there 8 at the top, and then in the first paragraph, the first 9 word there is "Lugovoy", isn't it, "Lugovoy AK"? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. If we go over to page 381, please, this is an English 12 translation of this document. We see that the heading 13 was: 14 "Discharge summary from a medical history". 15 Not quite sure how much of that has got lost in the 16 photocopying of the Russian, but: 17 "AK Lugovoy was treated in hospital at the 32..." 18 And then there's unclear text, but the dates were 19 5 June 2001 to 29 June 2001, is that right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Under the diagnosis, we see there that there are 22 a number of things referring to his heart, 23 cardiosclerosis, I think that must be something to do 24 with his heart, fibrillation, atrial and gastric 25 arrhythmia, do you see that? 36

37 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And the next page exertional angina, so it looks like 3 something to do with heart problems here? 4 A. Yes. 5 He was accepted and discharged with diagnosis heart 6 problems. 7 As you can see here, as far as prostate is 8 concerned, clear contours, volume is normal, so 9 everything is normal with all the rest of the bodies, 10 although he had operation before that on his stomach, as 11 is shown. 12 Q. Can I ask you, please, to look at another document, 13 which is INQ This is also a document which you supplied to the 15 Inquiry, isn't it? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Again, we have a heading at the top there, and just 18 looking in the Russian for the moment, there's a word, 19 there's a letter V and then there's another word. The 20 fourth word on that line is again "Lugovoy", isn't it? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Then can you just tell us what the next two words are? 23 A. Where? 24 Q. Immediately after A. Lugovoy Konstantin Fomich. 37

38 1 Q. That's the name of the person to whom this document 2 relates, isn't it? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. If we can go, please, to page 379, we have the English 5 translation of that, you see: 6 "Discharge summary." 7 And: 8 "Retired Colonel Konstantin Fomich Lugovoy, born in , was treated in hospital... from 12 June 2001 to June 2001." 11 Yes? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Do you know who Konstantin Lugovoy is? 14 A. Not the faintest idea. 15 Q. But Mr Lugovoy, we saw him referred to as AK Lugovoy, 16 but he's Konstantinovich, isn't he? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. So it's possible that this might be his father, do you 19 think? 20 A. I cannot tell you who is this. The most important thing 21 is that at the same time, and it was the document 22 attached in the materials of the case as referring to 23 Lugovoy, where he was located, and from where he was 24 taken. 25 Q. Okay. Because -- well, before I came to that, I was 38

39 1 going to point out that the diagnosis for this person is 2 of something quite different, isn't it? 3 A. Prostate, yes, prostate cancer. 4 Q. There is a prostate problem. I'm not sure that's 5 actually cancer, but it's a prostate problem? 6 A. Adenoma of prostate. 7 Q. These two documents we have looked at, the original 8 Russian documents, where did you get them from? 9 A. From the same materials of the case. 10 Q. Okay, so it's the case materials against you, in the 11 trial against you? 12 A. Yes, yes. 13 Q. Now, it's right A. One of them was supplied by his wife, and the other was 15 supplied by the prosecutor office. 16 Q. Do you remember which was supplied by whom? 17 A. The first one was supplied by his wife, and I have Q. That's the one relating A. I have brought with me the -- not by his wife, by his 20 solicitor on the -- was provided by his solicitor on July 2001, and the second one was provided by the 22 general prosecutor office. 23 Q. Can I then ask you, please, to look at some documents 24 that start at INQ A. But I would like to point out that the date in both 39

40 1 cases was 29 June. Lugovoy was arrested, questioned and 2 interrogated as it shows in the documents of the same 3 materials of case on the 28th. 4 Q. The day before? 5 A. The day before. 6 Q. We're coming straight to that, because here on page 391, 7 you see there's another document in Russian. 8 A. Mm-hmm. 9 Q. We'll come to the translation in a moment, but this is 10 from the general prosecutor's office, isn't it? Are 11 these more documents that you supplied to the Inquiry? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. They come from your files as well from your prosecution? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So if we can A. And I understand that the signature was removed by 17 yourself. 18 Q. Yes, that's right, we've redacted the signatures. 19 A. It's simply that I'm trying to compare my documents with 20 what I see. 21 Q. Yes. So that I don't have to go back to it, can I go 22 on, please, to A. But I want to pay attention that this document is dated 24 27th -- it's very important. 25 Q. Mr Glushkov, I will come back to the documents in 40

41 1 a moment, but we'll do it in English so that we can all 2 understand what we're seeing. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. I just want to go to page 397, please, and the very 5 bottom of the page, just to identify one thing. 6 You see that in the middle of what's on the screen 7 there, there's a section in bold type, and there's 8 a signature which has been redacted? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Then there's a name of a Mr Kovraev, is that right? 11 A. Yes, that's prosecutor. 12 Q. Yes, that's the prosecutor, and below that, there's 13 another paragraph, and in the second line of that 14 paragraph, can you tell us the first word on there, that 15 word there? 16 A. It's announced, announced, made known to Lugovoy on June Q. Thank you. 19 A. And in the period from actually, very fast in 20 seven minutes they managed. 21 Q. Well, we'll see the English in a moment. I just wanted 22 to look at that word. 23 The first handwritten numbers there, it's obviously 24 28, isn't it? 25 A. 28, yes. 41

42 1 Q. Can we then please have page Now, this is a translation into English of that 3 first document that we looked at. It's a letter from 4 the general prosecutor's office, dated, as you say, 5 27 June. 6 A. Mm-hmm. 7 Q. And it's written: 8 "Dear Elena Vladimirovna." 9 That's Mr Lugovoy's lawyer, wasn't it? 10 A. Yes. Her name is Kutina, it's solicitor Kutina, 11 Elena Vladimirovna. 12 Q. That's right, we have that on the top right-hand corner, 13 thank you. 14 "Allow me to inform you that at on June 2001 an investigation will be carried out with 16 the participation of AK Lugovoy in relation to criminal 17 case..." 18 Et cetera, yes? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. If we go on to the next page, please, 384, we see there 21 a personal search report. I see that the date in the 22 top right-hand corner is said to be the 21st, but 23 looking back at the original, that's the 28th. 24 A. It's 28th. I have the original here. 25 Q. I see the original as well, so 28 June. And -- 42

43 1 A. It's not correct. 2 Q. There's obviously a search been carried out of him and 3 a couple of passports were found and confiscated, yes? 4 A. Yes, but may I make one small remark, he was telling me 5 that he was taken from the hospital in the slippers, 6 unexpectedly, all of a sudden. He had two passports on 7 him, as it's shown here: internal passport and foreign 8 passport, foreign travelling passport, and his lawyer, 9 his solicitor, was informed about this action the day 10 before. 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. And he had already the lawyer. 13 Q. That I understand. 14 A. These are the things that made me -- first things that 15 made me start worrying about the whole circumstances. 16 I was -- it was happening even when I was in Lefortovo. 17 Q. You are very suspicious about all of this, aren't you? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Can I just go through the documents so we can see what 20 they say. The next page, please, is at Here is a request, it's dated 2 July, do you see 22 that? 23 A. Mm-hmm. 24 Q. In the second paragraph, it says: 25 "Since the accused was admitted at a medical 43

44 1 institution up until 28 June 2001, please can you 2 urgently issue instructions to carry out a medical 3 examination... and send us [a] report..." 4 Yes? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Then if we go to the next page -- 7 A. It's the medical report. 8 Q. -- it's the medical report. We can see at the bottom of 9 the page there, there's a date of 3 July, and a lot of 10 it is unclear because of the photocopying of the 11 original, we can see that that is a medical report. 12 Then at page A. But it's stated that he arrived on the 28th. 14 Q. On the 28th, yes. Then on page 387, you see in the top 15 right-hand corner there's a date of 27 June. This is an 16 indictment decision, it says, that's right, isn't it? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. This document sets out the facts of the allegations 19 against Mr Lugovoy, is that right? 20 A. The translation indictment decision is not quite 21 correct. I would translate it as a ruling for charging 22 as an accused, for charging an accused. That's only 23 charging. Indictment is the stage before you go to 24 court when the final indictment is presented. Here he 25 is charged -- he is being charged as accused. 44

45 1 Q. Can we have then, please, 395 which is the original of 2 this document. 3 A. Mm-hmm, that's it. 4 Q. The first half. So the title there is what you say 5 should be translated as? 6 A. Ruling for charging as accused. 7 Q. And seeing as we have Madam Interpreter here, I wonder 8 if we could get -- 9 A. A compromise? 10 Q. -- a version of that from you, please. 11 THE INTERPRETER: I actually agree with literal direct 12 translation that Mr Glushkov just produced of that, 13 literal translation of what it says. 14 A. Indictment, it's called in Russian "obvinitelnoye 15 zaklucheniye". 16 THE INTERPRETER: I agree. 17 MR TAM: Thank you. If we're going back to the English, can 18 we go on, please, to You see there the heading about two-thirds of the 20 way down: 21 "I hereby rule: 22 "To indict [Mr] Lugovoy as the accused..." 23 Signed by Mr Kovraev, we saw the original earlier, 24 and then: 25 "This ruling was read out to the accused, AK 45