[Bix] Beiderbecke's style.. Thus, he tries bo put the two togather^

Transcription

1 MANUEL "MOOSEh 2ANCO Reel I--Sununary-Reyped Those presen: Richard B. Alien, Paul craword This inerview was made in Room 104 o he Hisory Building a Tulane Universiy. \ Manuel Joseph Zanco is "Moose's" real hame. Few people in he music business know his real name, and he likes i ha way. Moose was born February 12, 1929 in Meairie, Louisiana, where lie lived or weny wo years or so. Aer lie go ou o he service, he moved ino he ciy o New Orleans and has lived here ever since A presen Moose lives a 4659 Easern Sree in he Genilly secion o New Orleans. Probably he irs real spiried music Moose ever lieard was a ^ parades. He ook a liking o i. No one in his amily played any music; as ar as he knows/ he is he only one who invesed $60 in a horn. Mos o he parade bands. Moose hinks, migh have been high school bands rom he ciy. Unorunaely, hey were no he colored parades. Once in a while you migh run up on a good 'old ime guiar player; or maybe ellows who had played years beore, bu are no I acive now. s Quie a ew years ago when Moose happened o be downown, ^ and he saw a ine looking rumpe in a show window. A ha ime/ he didn' know anyhing abou music, couldn play, bu he ell in love wih looks o h6 horn. Moose learned o play sricly by ear 7 he did no sudy wih anyone. No one showed him wha posiion o place he horn on his lips or ingeringr in ac, aer playing i or abou seveneen years, he sill doesn' know i he T-ias he righ posiion, Moose always liked he way Bunk Johnson played. Also, he liked [Bix] Beiderbecke's syle.. Thus, he ries bo pu he wo ogaher^ and someimes he comes up wili somehing worhwhile o lisen o» Bunk Beiderbecke is Moose's alias,, Moose irs played wih a band in abou 1949o I was a our 1.1

2 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 2 Reel I-Summary-Reyped piece group in Meairie. Over a period,o years,,some o he boys. go married or wen ino he service, hus breaking up he band Moose has been lucky enough o be in anoher group which he plays wih now. His band work could be placed beween he years 1949 o 1959 The Meairie band only played cog^el-ier or abou a year or wo. In he meanime. Moose pu'his horn in case; he hadn' ouched i or quie a ew years. His beginning wil he Las Sraws is he irs ime ha Moose has really goen back o playing again- Jus or kicks, he used o ool around a ~he ire house, once a week or once a monh, nohing seadyo^ Moose is a ireman on lie New Orleans Fire Deparmen. He has been on he job or six years. He is a Cenral Fire Saion on Decaur Sree in he hear o he French Quarer. Besides ighing ires, hey polish brass, sweep, clean heir quarers up. Occasionally, hey do go o ^ ire. He has quie a bi o ime on his hands. The ^ Capain, Marin Fenery, used o be a banjo player years ago. When Moose decided o ake his Iiorn o he ire house, Fenery said he would. bring his banjo. Beween he wo o hem, hey worked up a due In he meanime, l-ie Lieuenan, Sidney Delpugec, who is a drummer brough 'his drums. Delpuge used o play wih he Evoluion Trio. The Evoluion Trio was he craze o New Orleans many years ago ; i was beore Moose's ime, bu Tie has heard ha hey were grea. Sidney Delpuge had wo ingers o his rigli hand, bu he was erriic Occasionally^ oher ellows would come by he ire house, and hey would ge a session going, Jus or heir own amusemen. Many years ago, he Evoluion Trio migl^ have been he sa orchesra o WWL Radio Saioric, They did somewha o a minsrel rouine. They used clarine, drums/ and banjoo The banjo player lives someplace up in Kenner now. ',

3 MANUEL "MOOSE11 ZANCO 3 Reel I--Summary--Reyped The lile group ha Moose played wih in Meairie played ou in Kenner some; some o he boys were rom Kenner. They never did any seady work. Jus played a dieren houses or heir own amusemen. Moose joined he Las Sraws when Joe Lyde le o go 'back o Ireland. I has been almos a year. Moose played rombone wih he Las Sraws on he Cuba engagemen in May. Moose doesn' hink he will ever see his name in lighs, bu he music on he rip sounded prey good o him. Probably he would have played a comb wih a slip o paper o ge o go o Cuba. I was a goodwill rip rom he ciy o New Orleans. They [he ciy] jus happened o choose he Sraws. o make he rip. They sayed in he Havana Hilon, one o Tie ines hoels in Cuba. They were reaed like kings while here; hey had a good ime. They marched in a parade. Havana, Cuba had a big carnival. They had o use a black ace rouine? hey represened a Negro uneral band. The musicians were sor o hal-dead anyway, so hey made a prey good uneral band; They played: "Didn' He Ramble^" "Jus A Lile While o Say Here," a Jazzed up version o "[Jus a] Closer Walk Wih Thee," and hey played he "Sains" [When The Sains Go Marchin In"]. Moose hinks ha hey more or less repeaed he same unes over and over They didn' play a slow une; hey wen righ ino he marching rouine. They 1-iad o pu more o a march bea r o hem, bu hey were supposedly Negro uneral unes. They were a. "coming back" band., Joe Lyde was playing come; Bris Jones on clarine; Bill Lee on enor sax? John Chae, he regular banjo player, played uba; and he regular drummer. Bob Mclnyre, doubled on banjo; be bass player. Bob Ice, played a bass drum? and he piano player, Frank Delahoussaye/ played a snare drum, and Moose played he rombohe The bass is made rom a ew scraps o plywood, wo genuine bass srings, / ' \ T

4 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 4 Reel I--Summary-Reyped 'hardware sore urn-buckles. I produces a very eecive sound; i you would close your eyes you would hink you were lisening o a genuine bass. PRC says i is very convenien because i has a hole cu in he side o i w^iere Ice can carry all o he band's accessories. Moose says hey would pu heir insrumens in he hole in he side o he bass when hey wen rom place o place. Sal Margioca and Hughie Hardy old PRC abou Willie Guiar, who played bass and lived on Music Sree. Willie's bass had a wellconcealed, hinged door in he back. Willie would go o a house pary, and when 'he would see somehing 'he waned, somehing real nice, he would wai ill he pary go real "Juiced-up" and hen he would back up o wha he waned and open he door and pu i in. One nigh he saw a real expensive clock which had an alarm on i. He pu he clock in he bass and jus as he was leaving he alarm wen o. Back o Cuba-he Sraws were down here ive days. They wen down primarily or he parade, bu while,hey were down here. Mayor Morrison [o New Orleans] nad a pary or his personal riends, and he invied he Sraws o play. They played abou hree sessions oher han he parade. They had one session up in heir hoel room one nigh. Moose hinks ha was he bes music hey had ever played, bu here wasn' anyone o lisen o hem. Also rom New Orleans in Havana was Hecor Fonana's band and Roy Libero wih his group. Roy Libero's group rode a loa in he parade. Some o he loas rom he New Orleans Mardi Gras were sen over here or ime parade. Moose doesn' know i Hecor Fonanas group was in he parade, bu hey did some o he exra paries. I was a real colorul parade. Nearly every counry [Souh American?] was represened wih heir own coningen. Mos o he groups which Moose hears now seem o pu a modern ouch in somewhere along he line; you jus don' really hear {< '\ I <

5 MANUEL l'moose '. 2ANCO 5 Reel I-Summary-Re yped ha old, old brand o music You hear jazz bands and Jazz unes, bu hey jus don' seem o have ha crude sound ha he old bands had years ago. Mr" Alien says lra he hinks he Englishmen have some o ha. Speaking o Englishmen, Moose heard Chris Barber a he [Municipal] Audiorium, and hey were really ho su. They produce prey much o he old sound. The otier bands no rom New Orleans were mosly school bands. Moose hinks one coningen here was suppose o oe a police band, bu Moose doesn' know rom where. They played mosly parade march su Naurally, represening New Orleans he Sraws had o play jazz; hey hardly know anyhing else. Moose says he should really speak or himsel when he says "hardly knows anyhing else" because he hardly knows any oher music When he Sraws reurned rom Cuba; Moose sa in a couple o imes wih hem playing rombone. One ime Moose played second come r Joe played irs comes They. ried o work up a (Joe] Oliver- [Louis] Armsrong (ge"up" wih he irs and second come. Aer Joe le. Moose "had some big shoes o walk ino." Moose ried o copy Joe's syle; he hough Joe was erriic. Joe's horn was always la, bu he was good. I could have been "ha vinage o horn he ^oe] had"; Moose hinks i was he irs come ever made. Moose sared playing spos wih he Sraws abou May. They had wo jobs righ aer Joe le. Moose never subsiued or Joe beore he le. Joe always made all he jobs, unorunaely or Moose, who Waned o play more han he acually did. Moose would go and lisen o hem a Bruno's [Hillary a Maple]» Bris Jones» he clarineis, pl&yed wih he group "we had up in Kenner years ago." He sa in wih. hem a couple o ime's. Bris old John Chae ha Moose played he come. John asked Moo^e i Tie would like o si in and play a une wih hem. They played "High Sociey," "Bill Bailey," anc3 "Milenberg Joys." < 1

6 MANUEL 1:MOOSE1< ZANCO Reel I- Summary- Reyped November 25, 19S9 6 Jolin was prey much pleased wih he sound, so he old Moose ha he should keep pracicing and working on he horn because Joe was going o be leaving permanenly, and "he syle o he su you play is prey much he same syle ha Joe plays, so you keep working wih he 'horn, and we'll have a spo or you in he group." The irs ime Moose heard ie Sraws play was a one o he Jazz Club meeings, concers raher. He old he ellows he was wih ha as ar as he was concerned ha is undoubedly he mosc original sounding band in his ciy. Moose never dreamed ha he would liave a chance o play wih hem. ^ Besides playing a Bruno's, hey play a ew raerniy Tiouse dances^ luncheons, eco They play or a lile o everyhing, "lze regular run o he mill Jobs, o course, no he nig^ clubs, bu Jus enough o "keep heir hand in." PRC adds ha lie Sraws play a lo o dances; hey are usually in hired hails or a somebody's 1-iouse. Oher han playing a Vienna and Cuba, hey played a job in Mobile, Alabama. The even was he opening o he debuan season or somehing like ha. They have played wo or hree Jobs in Bay S. Louis, Mississippi. When hey play a a rened hall, i is usually or some civic organizaion or raerniy. They played wo or hree luncheon dances \ a ee New Orleans Counry Club. The Sraws also played or a -breakas which began abou noon. Mos o he Sraw's Jobs are upown. The Sraws also have played a Job in Birmingham, Alabama since Moose has been playing wih hem. Moose doesn' remember exacly wha i was or, 'houg'h. Moose has a hard ime explaining o his riends abou going o Vienna because irs o all you Tiave o explain ha i was a Communis Fesival. I was dominaed by Communiss; Communiss rom he Unied Saes and all over he world were invied. Since he esival '.I

7 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 7 Reel I--Summary-~Reyped November 25 ^ 1959 was given in a ree counry, Ausria, hey [he Sraws] igured, as represenaives o e ree world, hey should go o "cheer or our side. II The Sraws/ o raise money o pay heir way, gave several sree dances. They were "che razzln crew, he hecklin' squad II The Sraws were old, beore hey wen, ha 1'he people in Europe were having a J&zz craze. Apparenly, hey don' ge enough jazz over here. I was decided o use he Sraws. Ever^ place hey played he people acceped hem so grealy; i was a grea hing; i made hem eel like hey were accomplishing wha hey wen over o do. The Sraws sor o lirew a monkey-wrench in he Communis plans, because he way hey. igured ha no one would pay much aenion o represenaives o he ree world. Since i was heir esival and lney had he reins r in heir hands, hey waned everyhing o go heir way, whicli i didn', because here were los o people lia would Jus gaher around he band, raher han lisening o lie poliical speeches. Tha kind o burned he Communiss up. Malioqany Hall [Somp] never sounded so good. Moose eels ha i will be he las ime ha hey will ever hold a. esival ouside he Iron Curain. Usually he esivals are in he Iron Curain counries. The band members go a grea kick ou o he rip; here is a lo o presige-"we played in Europej we made a our o Europe." While hey were over here a man who runs he Inernaional Mouse o Jazz made a conac wih he Sraws He waned lnem o play one nigh in his nigh club. He has a abulous place. They played ha one nigh. A lo o people rom he esival grounds ollowed hem over, as well as a lo o his regular cusomers. He was so enhusiasic abou he response o he audience ha he waned he Sraws o say or one monh, bu since hey had o come back o regular Jobs, ha was impossible. He old hem i hey could come back nex year ha he would pay all expenses and keep hem or one ii.r 1.n n.s.

8 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 8 - Reel I-Summary-Re ype d monh; hey could be he house band. Abou ha ime Louis Armsrong and. Ella Fizgerald and Oscar Peiord were over here on our. Tha's when Louis go sick in Rome. They were on heir way back when he Sraws me hem in he Inernaional House o Jazz. They had a big ball^ Auographs were going a dime a dozen. Moose hinks ha was he irs ime he ever signed his auograph; i made him eel good^ imporano Louis was sill in Rome in he hospial. They [lie Sraws] played "Bill Bailey" and Ella did a vocal or hem. Oscar Peiord is a erriic bass man, and he-- END OF REEL I ^ \' r i

9 MANU&L "MOOSE" ZANCO 9 Reel II- Summary- Reyped s Peiord didn' paricularly like cl-ie syle o music he Sraws were playing in Vienna--he plays more on he progressive side-bu Moos admires his musicianship. They [Oscar and Ella] were abou he only ones vho were here a he ime. There is sor o a radiion a his [Inernaional] House o Jazz; any ime a amous a celebriy passes hrough, hey should sop in his place and sign he book. The [Inernaional House o Jazz] place Was run by Fay George, an Ausrian. He really goes or he old New Orleans Jazz? ha is he only kind o music he really ook an ineres in. On he wall in his place, TIQ has lie-size picures o Bix Beiderbecke playing wih Tommy Dorsey. On anoher wall was Bunk Jolmson and a group he was playing wili. On anoher wall h? has 1'he Eureka Brass Band. e musician or 1 The wall is covered wih lie-size picures/ and so many o he peopl e who wen o his place and liked Jazz have heard o New Orleans, bu o hem i was more o a legendary place; hey never hough hey would ge o see and hear people direcly rom New Orleans. The Sraws played here a week. Fay "had picures made o he Sraws. picures were no lie size, bu hey were very big picures» and he pu hem on he wall nex o all he greas,, "Tha kind o does hing or you? i makes you eel like you are somebody." The people over here were auograph hounds. Moose mus have signed his name iy imes. The Sraws sayed a he esival or en days. were playing hree or our imes a diay during he esival. Every ime hey had a rally going, hey would call he band. They.were kep prey acive, plus a lile Job hey had in own every nigh a.. Fay's. Aer he en days were up, hey ook o on a vacaion; hey wen on heir own hen-john Chae wen o Paris, Bill and Carol Lee wen o Munich, where hey sayed a Carol's broher's house/ and The some They s Bob Ice^ Moose and J. T. Joyce wen o [Salsberg?], and l-rey wen o r

10 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 10 Reel II"-Summary--Reyped,! A. a mounain resor called [?]. They liad quie a ime. They didn' play here? hey le heir insrumens in Vienna where hey picked hem up on he way bactc hroug'h. When hey wen back o pick up heir insrumens, Tiey made wo apes in Facy's place during mid-day when no one was in he place. The ape isel had good eec? he ape didn' have any background noises. Bob Ice mig-i have his ape [check wih Ic6 or ape]. Moose hinks ha perhaps on he ape he Sraws sounded as good as hey ever sounded while L hey were on he rip i was erriic. Bill Lee played clarineo He is a clarine and saxoplione man,.# bu on ne Vienna rip he played sricly clarine. Bris Jones didn' make he rip. Bill's wie played piano because Frank Delahoussaye couldn' make he rip. Moose played come, John played banjo, J. J= played he drums/ Ice played bass, and hey picked up a rombone named Willi Meervald, who was an Ausrian. "You would swear his guy was born in New Orleans, Ausria. He could play a ail-gae rombone lia was ou o his world. He promised o come over here? he waned o come o New Orleans and ge baclc wih he group. He mus have hough lie Sraws were playing ull ime. He couldn' make a living ou o somehing o and on. Bob Ice has his address, because he was going o ]<eep conac wih him. John enrolled Willi as a corresponding. member in he New Orleans Jazz Club. When Moose irs joined he band 1riere was: Moose, who replaced Joe [Lyde], played come; Bris Jones played clarine; Bill Lee was playing saxophone; Frank Delahoussaye was playing piano; J. J. Joyce was playing drums; Bob Ice was playing basso Bill has swapped rom his alo o a soprano sax now. I is prey eecive; i has a good sound. Now and hen hey ge dieren people o si in. The rombonis ^ is Archey Rodgers; Tne is very good Bob Havens sa in wih hem, as ;i ii ;1 1

11 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO Reel H""Sunmary--Reypeca November did Bill Dodson he clarineis. A one ime even Johnny Wiggs sa in wili he group? lia was while Joe was sill liere. Several sudens rom Tulane have [sa in], because a lo o people in he place [Bruno'a] are rom Tu lane and Newcomb. Moose says some o lie sudens who si in are grea. As or he syle ha he sudens play, i is Tiard o ry o deec who hey copied o o, bu hey have a way o playing Dixieland Jazz or New Orleans J^zz. They had a ellow o si in wih hem 6n ie pas Sunday on piano; Tne was a prey good pianis,. They did a version o "Milenburg Joys." Mr. Alien says he sounded Ike [Warren] Duncan and [Anhony] Palmisano. He wasn' a young suden ype so you would expec him o play old syle, Mr. Alien adds. Moose igures lia l-ie older people heard his music oncie beore, and i is amiliar o -hem. The younger people hadn' heard i; i is alogeher new o hem so ha aracs hem. Some o he younger ones, eigheen or nineeen years old, can play some o lie older unes rom way beore eir ime. They know lie unes as i hey were brough up around he unes, and -hey can play l-iem. To Moose i is he same way? some G he unes he remembers because his moher used o Thum hem. A lie ime he didn' know he name o lne une, bu over a period o years you sar ooling around, and beore you "know i, you -have acually pieced he whole une ogeher, and you are playing i he way i was mean o be" Moose/ playing by ear, has o rely on ha; i is he only way lie can play i-he Tias o hear i. I Tie has heard i once beore, he can play i. Moose is a a disadvanage no being able o read music- He always said ha he would give his righ arm i he could read music, bu ie Jus has o rely on wha he hears now. The original' drummer wih ~he Sraws was Bob Mclnyre A couple o monhs bacx Bob's wie had a baby, and he had o give more ime o his amily. I was a ha ime ha J. J. Sared playing wih

12 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 12 Reel II--Sunimary--Re yped hem. I migh Jus be a rumor, bu J. J. Joyce has won he rap-drumming championship o Mississippi or abou our years in a row. He is very good. He is a young boy. He Jus happened o cach ha old New Orleans syle o drumming? he is no a cymbal player,, PRC hinks he is Jus a sophomore [a Loyola] ; he is a denal suden.. Moose may ge him o ma)ce a bridge or him; lie needs eeh real bade, A rumpe player wihou eeh is li^e a barber wihou hands" The band says prey much lie same all Tie ime; maybe one ellow migh s-i in or anoher one, one Sunday. They don' have cymbal drummers.. The drummer could ge by on a snare drum and a bass drum alone. I "has more o ha parade sound; in a parade you don' have all he cymbals, ec. The drummer does know liow o play hem/ bu in he paricular syle he Sraws play, he relies mosly on His snare and bass drum. Moose had always been able o play in one key only-b la-everyhing he played had o be-played in B la. Since he has been playing wih he Sraws, here have been some good musicians» guys 'who really knew -heir su, and over.i a period o a year or so Tiey augh Moose o play in Jus abou every ^ey., Moose ries o minimize himsel by keeping his playing in a lower regiser raher han rying o ge up in he amosphere. Moose likes o play in a low regiser, bu i is no always eecive on some unes-you have o ge high. Moose agrees ha he general amosphere o he band is no ha o Bourbon Sree. To Moose mos o he bands on Bourbon Sree now have a modern rend in heir music; he drummers will rely sricly on heir cymbals^ he rumpe players have o do liese soaring noes-all he high playing. They more or less modernize i. I is sill suppose o be he old une, bu hey. modernize i. Moose likes he old jazz or wha he old jazz was ^ 1

13 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 13 Reel II-Summary-Reyped nohing ancy. Jus good pure music. Moose has abou hiry or ory records o his own. Probably mos o he su he has learned, he learned righ o hose records. i His records are LP's. Moose likes Bunk Johnson, Bix Beiderbecke, and King Oliver. Moose ries o combine all hree o heir syles.k in hope o evolving a syle o "his own. Moose also likes Johnny Wiggs's syle? he 'ha.s a simple/ pure syle. [Johnny Wiggs1 sounds like a record Moose has o Emme Hardy, Moos6 likes ha syle. Mr. Alien doesn' hink Emme Hardy made any records ha were ever issued. Perhaps Moose heard ha l-ieir syles were similar. Mr. Alien. says clie record would be worh a couple o housand dollars, a leas, A Bolden recording is worh a lile money i you can ind liem. Mr. Alien says Bolden made some recordings and Eirone Hardy made some home recordings, bu no one can ind hem. Buddy Pei made home recordings. Moose had one or wo records o Jelly Roll Noron's "Red Ho Peppers" and heir corne player, George Michell, was a good corneis-moose liked 'his syle. He appears o be one o hese musicians who migh have come rom one o hese orchesra pis; he plays ha ype o su. He is really good. PRC heard Moose play somehing one ime on Milenburg ha sounded like Paul Mares, bu Moose has never heard Paul Mares. Moose played a growl noe a he irs o he chorus; he jus liough i would souhd gooa and used i.,moose lias o inven his su as he goes along. He plays corne now; he irs insrumen 'he bough was a rumpe, and he played i or quie some ime., 'When he began playing wih he Las Sraws, 'who were suppose o be an old jazz group-he old ype o insrumens- Moose raded his rumpe in or a come which was an old ype o insrumen and i in wih heir se-up. Corne is supposed o be more o a solo insrumen. The rumpe migh "have a sweeer one, l-iigher

14 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 14 Reel II-Summary-Reyped pich, bu a corhe Is Jus a solo insrumen-a big brass insrumen, a lo o noise. I is suppose o be he lead insrumen. Moose likes lie one o he corne. The ellows who play sricly swee dance music would have o use rumpe whereas he come is more o he brass band or marching band insrumen. Mr. Alien adds ha Kid Howard 'had swiched back o come, oo,. Moose has a recording o George Lewis and on he album Jacke here is a picure o Kid Howard playing a rumpe Mr. Alien even sees modern guys now going o come like Melvin Lasle who Mr. Alien saw Friday nigh a he Jazz Room on Dauphine Sree [Dominic's Jazz Room]. Moose heard Wilber de Paris's group in New York. I Sidney de Paris has boh he rumpe and he come; he hangs hem boh on his music sand. Depending on he une/ he uses one or he oher,. I hey play he real old New Orleans march su, lie akes his come; i hey play somehing which is more o a dance une, he will use his rumpe. Jus beore he Sraws wen o Europe/ hey were playing a sree dance o raise unds or he ripo The neighborhood where hey were playing was predominanly a colored secion. One old colored ellow who was hanging by he rope which was used o rope o lie area was doing a jig, a dance ou in he sree. When hey had an inermission, Moose walked over o he rope o alk o him/ and "he old Moose' ha "or whie ellows y'all play he darkes music I ever heard." To Moose ha was a grea complimen, as he Sraws are rying o reproduce ha syleo I is surprising o Moose lia Europeans know so much abou Jazz^ When he Sraws were in Europe, people would ask hem i 1 hey knew George Lewis, Lawrence Marrero, Al Hir, ec. For he sake o a joke, Moose old hem ha he [Moose] &ugh Al Hirc o play a horn. Moose has never seen Al Hir play, bu he wishes ha he had he opporuniy o mee him; he likea Al. The people hougl-i ha ^ i ^ I <-r

15 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 15 Reel II-Summary-Reyped was Jus grea, unil Moose old hem ie was Jus Joking. All lie groups which were sen o he esival in Vienna were modern jazz groups, excep he Sraws. Mos o he Ausrian nigli clubs "had bands^ bu hey all play modern jazz. To hear Dixieland was somehing dieren or hem. One ellow old Moose ha during he war ha Hiler oulawed Jazz; he would no le he people lisen o Jazz because here was only one hing ha hey should adore, and a he ime i was him» Anyone caugh lisening o Jazz records was Jailed. Now ha he people are ree, hey can lisen o and say wha hey li7<e. They really li'ke o lisen o he music. Every place lie Sraws played was packed. The Sraws had a cliance o play in casles and palaces. "I guess hose old walls never igured hey'd ever be lisening o Dixieland Jazz." They played in casles in he / Vienna area. They wen o a grea palace Where hey had a benei on or he Ausrian Free Youli. Besides he Sraws, a Negro boy, Lorenz [Graham?], who accompanies himsel wili he guiar and sings olk music was here. They had he San Kay quine» which was a modern group. There were abou ive dieren groups ha pu he show on» There is a large Communis ollowing in New Yor'k and Chicago. The Sraws were able o be included as par o one o he wo big groups, he one rom New York. The Sraws wen over wih hem. The living quarers and accomodaions were errible; none o hem [Sraws] were very Iiappy abou hem. Perliaps he errible places were arranged wih he inenion ha hey would ge ed up and leave? he Communiss didn' wan hem o say. When ha didn' work, hey resored o J violence. There were sree ighs and rios all he ime. None o his aeced he band in any way; he Sraws wen over sricly as musicians, no as a poliical group. Hal o he ime he Communiss and he non-communiss hardly knew which side he Sraws were on--

16 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 16 Reel II-Summary--Reyped hey jus came or T-ie sake o lisening o he music. The las ew days o he esival, he audience ound ou ha he Sraws were no Communiss^, The Sraws reerred o he Communiss as Indians and he non-communisa as T-ie cowboys. Tha way i here were any bad J guys lisening, hey didn' know wha Was going on. The Sraws didn' wan o ge involved in polilc3 in anyway They wen over o play music» and hey waned o have lie presige o saying cha hey played in Europe. Moose never hough he would go around he world on a sixy dollar horn. He go o go o Cuba and Europe, and all on a sixy dollar horn» In Vienna here were groups rom ^ [Israel, Palesine?], Ialy, and all he counries weye represened. Mos o he groups were Communiss. The Russians, direcly rom Moscow, Leningrad/ ec, sayed on a 'house'boa ou in he Danube River; liey didn' come on he Fesival grounds a all, because hey didn' 'wan anyone o be able o say ha he Russians caused lie disurbances; hey waned o keep as clear as possible,. There was a group a 1'ie Fesival called he Ialian New Orleans Jazz Band. I migh have Jus been coincidence, bu everywhere he Sraws played, he Ialian group showed up. They were on he program, rigli behind hem. The Sraws old he Ialian group ha hey were rom New Orleans. The Ialians c'hough he Sraws were handing hem a lineo They probably hung 1. around wih he Sraws o pick up enough su as hey could/ he Sraws's syle o playing or wha hey did on a bandsancl The Ialian band was wih l-ie Communis group. Once when he Sraws were playing in a mess 'hall, having been scheduled or he program a bunch o people, somping and carrying lags, ec., came in in he middle o he Sraws "s session? he audience le he band and wen o see wha was going on c. END OF REEL II J.\ ^

17 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 17 Reel in-sununary--reyped The parade ha inerruped he Sraws' number was led by people carrying he sars, he sickles and all he rimmings which go wih communis rallies. The band sopped playing o le hem have he show a while/ hinking ha hey would ake urhs, bu i didn' work ha way, as hey waned he whole show or hemselves. They sared.a Russian dance, "where you old your arms and squa." The audience le. he band o see wha he new group had o show. The new group was going o dominae he whole show; in ocher words, hey waned he Sraws o leave. Bu inally hey sared singing one o heir anhems and by some luck he Sraws were able o pick.up he key and play along wih hem. The Sraws had never heard he number beore. The people go a bang ou o l-ia and sared cl-ieering or he band, and hey all came back over o he band again. So he oher group sared hrowing sale bread and waer a he Sraws because hey had recapured he audience. "I hese guys would liave realized how hungry I was^ I hink hey would have hrew a lile ham and cheese I wih I oo, because boy, hey ed us lousy over here, you know." The culpris were punished by he ground police/ who were circulaing hrough he crowds o keep law and order. They liad wo or.hree lile ellows rom Pakisan who were picked up? hey were he insigacors who sared all o i. Tha is a. general paern o wha happened all along; he Sraws would play and he crowd would all come back o hem. For wha hey wen.over here or, hey accomplished wha hey had o do. Every ime he Sraws played in Vienna, he people would ask or "Dr. Jazz", and unorunaely he "lead man" didn' know "Dr. Jazz", bu he [Moose] knows i now. The Sraws go a leer inviing hem o go o Rome nex year or a similar deal, and i hey do, will play "Dr. Jazz" unil he is blue in he ace. Moose A riend o Mr. Alleri -I

18 MANUEL "MOOSE11 21ANCO Reel III-Sununary-Reyped 18 + I in Rome, is Claude Kocho He sounds like:a Frenchman and a German, bu he is in Rome» He was in Biloxi [Mississippi] raining or he Ialian Air Force. He bough a lo o Mr. Alien's records. He waned o ge old Kid Sho's [Madison] records and su like ha. The Sraws are also supposed o go o Washingon, D. C on February 27 or he Congressional Carnival Ball o play. There is a rumor ha he Sraws are geing ready o make a record or he Louisiana Hisorical Sociey. A ellow made a conac wih he Sraws; he igured ha hey sill sounded like one o he real old original New Orleans bands, so ha is why he decided o use hem. They wan he Sraws o record abou welve unes, and liey have been rehearsing his pas week so ba hey can ge he unes down o he noe-so liere won' be any laws..mr. Alien says he conac was hrough Bill Crais? he is he one who ipped hem, he Louisiana Folklore Sociey, o. Moose didn' know, because he Jus Tcnows when he is suppose o show up a an engagemen. He leaves all he iguring o John Chae and Bob Ice; hey T-iave been making mos o he arrangemens or he band. Mro Alien adds ha Bill Crais has sa in wih he band, as did Raymond Burke, Moose says i was While Jo6 Lyde was sill here ha Raymond played wih he group. He l-iasn played 'since Moose joined he band. Moose sops a Raymond's s'hop prey regularly, and one ime he looked a some o he weird insrumens which he has in here.. One evening Moose saw a rumpe wih a lo o copper ubing on i. Raymond was playing a sor o hing which looked like a clarine, and Moose was playing he rumpe. They were siing rig"h ou in ron o Raymond's shop in he sree. They had a Jam session, jus he wo o hem. He has some o he weirdes looking hings: he made a rombone wih a lead pipe and unnels, ec. Mr. Alien says T-ia has a enor [saxoplione] moutnpiece and or a bell 1 h ^ \

19 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 19 Reel III- Summary- Reyped i has a plunger. Mro Alien calls i a plumber's nighmare. The rumpe Raymond has wih all he copper ubing looks more like a rumpine: par clarine and par rumpeo Mro Alien describes anoher o Raymond's insrumens which looks like a clarine. I has a cane reed, a clarine mouhpieceo The cane has holes in io PRC says i is a bamboo lue wih a clarine moulipiece» Moose sopped a Raymond's once o ge a uba, bu he didn' have anyhing which resembled one. He has quie an ineresing shop. You could spend a day jus lookingo PRC adds ha you would spend a day jus rying o ge in» Raymond has a lile bi o everyhingo I In discussing he dierence beween European jazz ans and American jazz ans. Moose says he really couldn' deec much dierence, In Europe here are more people locking around o see wha's going on; hey are sarved or jazz over here. So, in Europe, "wherever you se up, you ge a bigger ollowing, bu hey reac he same way as he people reac righ 'here." The Europeans know ha i is a "happy music, and hey are having a happy ime lisening o i. Mr<, Alien sees a Brunos Colege Inn he sudens rom Tulane and Newcombo Since i is locaed in he viciniy o Tulane and Newconib^ i draws rom he schools or is parons. During he school year, lie Sraws play rom ive o seven. They ge a prey good group in every Sunday aernoon. Aer school closes, ey play laer hours? hey will play rom seven o nine» Wih he laer schedule, hey draw more o an older group o people who come in o lisen., A paries he Sraws play or he young and old alike- "When you are playing ha kind o music he old auomaically urn young so I hink you're playing or all young people, really," Abou he Sraws' Birmingham, Alabama rip, PRC was old ha 1.

20 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO 20 Reel III- Summary- Reyped a girl who "had heard he group a Brurio'6 and who knew Bob Ice, go her aher o pu up he money o bring he band o Birmingham or wo hours or a dance ha hey 'had a heir house. Moose recalls ha he Sraws began playing a 12 midnigh or 3 A.M., aer he regular dance band had inished. The guys were sricly reading musicianst hey were very good. One o he ellows, he guy who roned he band, was a rumpe man, and lie had played wih Charlie Spivak's orchesra. He had a bunch o young musicians, and hey played all nice dance music. Aer hey inished playing, hey asked he lady, who was running ie hing i i would be all righ i hey sayed and lisened o he New Orleans band play. 3'he gave hem permission o do so. They all cluered around he back o lie I band sand, and hey acually wen wild. They wondered how he Sraws could do ha wihou ru^ic in ron o hem, ha l-ie Sraws were making up he music as hey wen along. They were prey well pleased wit^ he resuls. People ask Moose wha is Jazz supposed o be: Moose hinks eacl-i musician is playing a solo simulaneously-in oher words c you are making your su up as you go along. Mr. Alien asks Moose i he hinks ha he guys lisen o each aer while hey're playing. Moose lisens o he ohersr wl^en he rombone or clarine will ake a solo. Moose lisens o i arid enjoys wha he hears. Las Sunday when Mr. Alien was a Srunos he heard Moose play a lick, and hen he heard Archey [Rodgers] adap par o ha ino his lick righ aer ha. I was Jus some lile variaion on he une, and he worked ha rigl-i ino Tiis- Jus answered Moose. Mr. Alien says ha i is obvious ha he guys in he band are ogeher even hough hey are playing solo pars. Moose hinks i you play as a group long enough you almos know wha -ie oher guy is hinking, and you can do ha same hing,. Since Moose is no a reading musician,

21 MANUEL "MOOSE" 2ANCO. Reel III-Summary-Reyped ^.-1. he hinks ha while one guy ia playing a solo a regular musician would be couning ime-1-ie knows Tiow many beas have o go in a measure, and he knows when he oher guy's solo is Jus ready o end. Moose doesn' know how o coun ime so he Jus comes in when ie hinks he solo is over. Moose didn' sudy music in scliool a all. Moose didn' ake lessons on he lue, bu he 1-iad rened a lue. He had been lisening o a lo o classical music and waned o play. some o i. He learned how o play "The Walz o Tie Flo-wers," and some pars o "Peer and he Wol." I was he same way wih he rumpec-he liked he sound so ie learned o play i. ^ A he beginning o a une, he Sraws go hrougln he melody once or wice, and each insrumen will ake his solo. They ake wo choruses a lie end. Someimes hey play pairs--a clarine and a rombone wih each aking hal a chorus; piano and banjo mig'h ake hal and Tial. They migh play ogeher. PRC says he Sr&ws "have had some prey good wo clarine su. Bill Lee 'has been doubling wih his soprano and his clarine and Yiis alo. Someimes Bill and Bris.Tones will play a clarine due. Moose hinks ha Alphonse Picou and Big Eye Louis Nelson used o play ha way-use a double clarine on a couple o recordings. Mr Alien says i was on he Kid Rena records. Mr. Alien also adds ha ha is an old-ime hing, all he guys used o do ha. He T-i as heard Emile Barnes and IAlber Burbank ogeher; hey didn' have a rumpe player one ime so Mr. Alien sa in on romboneo I was un o hear hem play like haj i sounded good. John Handy and Willie Humphrey used o do ha, oo, Mr. Alien adds. Moose says ha.no oo many o he bands around he ciy now do anyhing like ha. I is Jus a novely wih lie Sraws., You will hardly see a,'banjo in he bands any more, or a uba. Tha is wha he Sraws are more or less capializing on; hey». +

22 MANUEL "MOOSE" SlANCO 22 Reel III-Summary-Reyped are reproducing l-ie real old sounds; ha is wha is keeping hem going. Some o he paio paries which he Sraws migh play wan more o a quie music, so hey mue he rumpe, use a clarine, piano» and drums. Someimes hey use only our pieces, someimes ive or six or a ull eigho I depends on he ype o music ha ^e people wan a heir pary. Moose has seen imes when hey souad wih a ew pieces as loud as lie Eureka Brass Band, and 'he Iias also seen imes w"hen hey sould like somehing ha should have been in he Blue Room-hey can hold i down ha quieo They have played wihou a piano; wihou ^ drums; wihou bass; and wihou come. Moose would pro'bably miss he drums mos. A lo o imes he bass will ake he place o he drums, or he banjo will ake he place o he drums. Moose doesn' know i he could really play any more i he banjo wasn' righ nex o him; he has o be lisening o a rombone, oo. Mr. Alien ells o Buddy Bolden who used o use wo clarines. His band's picure, wih wo clarinecs, shows. Frank Lewis and Willie Warner. Tha is an old radiion? you go some good su ha way. Some o Moose's avorie clarine players are Alphonse Picou,, Alber Burbank, George Lewis-he likes hem all. I he guys can play you can' help bu like hem; you T-^ave o appreciae wla l:hey are doing. Anyone who plays jazz, Moose likes hem» On rombone, Archey Rodgers is one o he bes in he ciy. Bob Havens, wih Al Hir, is good on rombdne; Moose also likes Jim Robinson. Moose is one o he ew who lives in New Orleans and hasn' been o a Negro uneral [or social parade], Joe Lyde used o march wih he Negro parades a uneralso PRC adds ha Joe played a Zulu parade almos all he way hrough^ Kid S'heik, he rumpe player, would give /.,,.V

23 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 23 Reel III-Summary-Re yped Joe Ills horn. Joe also played a Arhur Ogle's uneral, adds Mr.. Alien. + Moose ells ha Joe wasn' only a musician, bu he was a prey good enerainer while he was siing on he band sand. Mr. Alien adds ha Joe wen beyond enerainmen someimes. Moose saw he Sraws on nigh where Joe was playing corne, and Joe needed a mue or a une -ia he was playing; he had a hal glass o beer siing on he able, so he picked he glass up, hrew he beer on he loor and used he glass or a mue. I was real eecive. Moose has used a drinking glass or a mueo Moose saw Joe show up or a job dressed o kill bu wih an orange sock and a. blue sock wih sandals, Joe r jus didn' care; all he cared or was o play his music. Mr. Alien ells ha Kid Thomas is abou he bes one wih he waer glass around own, and he is good wih i. "Panama" is Kid Thomas's specialiy in his syle, Mr» Alien asks Moose i he ever saw Joe on "Tiger Rag" when l-iey had he "Hold ha Tiger" chorus where Joe would pull ou a Chrismas horn and blow i. To Moose, Joe was he ypical old, old, old ime jazz musician; he jus didn' care; he jus waned o play music. Moose has always admired Joe; he would never hink o acing he way Joe aced on a bandsand, bu you had o appreciae wha he was doing. Everyhing he did was jus par o he showo Je Sulzer, a psychology suden, old PRC bne ime ha Joels personaliy is similar o wha he learned by lisening o George Guesnon and Jim Robinson, or George alking abou Jim, ha he old New Orleans syle musician wasn' jus because o a syle o playing, i was he personaliy. I you were a musician, ha is wha you were and you weren' anyhing else. Moose adds ha Joe was a an o Shakespearej he read Shakespeare every nigh o his lie. When he graduaed rom high school, liis moher had given him somehing by Shakespeare I go

24 MANUEL "MOOSE" ZANCO 24 Reel III-Summary-Reyped o be like a onic wih him-i was like a sleep inducer-he Triad o read a ew lines o Shakespeare every nigh beore he wen o sleep. / Mr. Alien says ha Johnny Lane, who is rom Chicago and sudied wih Jimmy Noone, sis on he sand and reads Shakespeare beween numbers. George Brunis will be playing wih Johnny, and he will say "he nex number is dedicaed o our boss» 'HigT-i PsycT-iiary Moose has seen Archey Rodgers in becween numbers almos go o sleep on he bandsand. Archey acually looks like l-ie dozes, bu on he nex une he is live as can be. Mr» Alien says pleny o guys did ha; hey saved heir lip ha way. When Moose was playing he -# debuan pary in Alabama, he go his inger caug'h beween wo o he valves on his horn while he was playing 'he Sains. Tha was he bes and hoes ha he had ever played "When he Sains Go Marching In." He could never play i ha way again. Jolnn Chae once go his ie caugh in he srings o his banjo When he Sraws were playing in Europe, Ice broke a sring on his wo-sring bass, and he only hing ha could be "had was a regular bas^. They pu i in his hands, and he played i? he played Jus as well as he had ever playedo He only used he wo srings, bu he looked imporan wih a real bass in his hando END OF REEL III» II..I.I. ' ;( '\ I I: I J.